I've looked into running a small alternator for similar purposes. I bought a $19 shipped 63W alternator off Amazon that originally was for a chevy cavalier. I made some notes at the time that it would operate on that car between about 1800-14000 rpm, so it can be run directly like that You-tube vid showed.
Hybrid research
- Thread starter Ludwig II
- Start date
I've a new Lifan 100 cc- ish vertical 4 stroke engine that we've been playing with and I just ordered a 48 volt, 1000 watt motor and controller that I'll be mounting eventually to my sidecar build to use as a reverse only. In the meantime I plan to do a little experimenting with some old alternators I have somewhere around here. Maybe I'll start to get a better handle on the possibilities of hybrid combinations with a bit of hands on.
Rick C.
Rick C.
Sounds fun. Another thing you might find interesting is that alternators make pretty good brushless 3-phase motors. They can be pretty easily rewired and connected to RC motor controllers. I haven't done it myself, but I've seen some vids. One kid I saw built a neat go-kart powered by a converted alternator. But that another topic. I'll be following along to see what you come up with for hybrid experiments. Nothing like getting your hands dirty and building something. I think the hybrid bike has huge potential.
I saw a guy on utube about ten years ago did a trike w a gas genrator and electric motor, hes probly dead now
I've been running my little 100 cc Lifan thinking how quiet & smooth it is & with a belt drive 30 amp alternator hooked up to it. Now that I've a fat bike in the works & am considering powering it with a front hub drive the thought of mounting the Lifan as well to charge up an extra battery pack seems something useful for extended rides. Two battery packs fully charged would get me there, but charging the first depleted pack under way & at stops along the way and the additional pack charging during the time spent at the destination. The fat bike frame I have is not a great platform for this as is and would definitely require stretching the frame to accommodate the gas motor, but would be a simple task to do so. I'd probably opt for 48 volt 15 amp pack. Can anyone tell me off hand what the battery recovery time would be for a 80% discharged pack using 30 amp alternator at 3,000 rpm? Also is there a problem charging lithium cells with a regulated alternator if the pack being charged is not under operational load? I'm confident with lead cells but really feeling my way around the lithium packs. All input is welcome.
Rick C.
Here is something I got off the internet. I'll add to it as I find more.
Steve.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Battery.html&usg=AOvVaw1BRuJATmyoE0F4va9KZaZh
Steve.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Battery.html&usg=AOvVaw1BRuJATmyoE0F4va9KZaZh
After thinking about it an alternator puts out 12v. A 48v battery would have to broken up into 4 12v batteries and each one charged individually. An option might be to wire the alternator to a 12v auto battery and attach an 12v/120v inverter so you could plug in a 48v lithium battery charger.
A bit of a long way around the problem unless you could find a charger that can convert 12v incoming to 48v outgoing.
Steve.
A bit of a long way around the problem unless you could find a charger that can convert 12v incoming to 48v outgoing.
Steve.
https://www.powerstream.com/dc-12v-48v-waterproof-850w.htm
https://www.powerstream.com/dc-12v-48v-1250w.htm
These can up the voltage but are pricey.
The Inverter connected to a 120 AC charger built for 48volt Lithium battery probably might be just slightly less efficient, but cost overall less I would expect.
I've used LiPo batteryies for model craft and the premade batteries have more than two wires for charging the cells individually. This helps when the charger allows any cell in the battery to shut off or maintain charge even before others are not yet fully charged. Balanced Charger they call it.
Maybe this is part of the chargers for Lithium Batteries / Cells as well?
I had once purchased individual LiPo cells that did not have already short circuit or charging protection circuits already attached. I did however find the same company selling those cells, the protection circuits for them. Not everyone may want to assemble it that way, rather just make sure they come with the protection already.
The amount of current capability of the protection circuit when I was using a DC to DC stepup converter had to also include the efficiency for conversion current as well as the load current since the protection circuit came before the DC to DC Converter.
https://www.powerstream.com/dc-12v-48v-1250w.htm
These can up the voltage but are pricey.
The Inverter connected to a 120 AC charger built for 48volt Lithium battery probably might be just slightly less efficient, but cost overall less I would expect.
I've used LiPo batteryies for model craft and the premade batteries have more than two wires for charging the cells individually. This helps when the charger allows any cell in the battery to shut off or maintain charge even before others are not yet fully charged. Balanced Charger they call it.
Maybe this is part of the chargers for Lithium Batteries / Cells as well?
I had once purchased individual LiPo cells that did not have already short circuit or charging protection circuits already attached. I did however find the same company selling those cells, the protection circuits for them. Not everyone may want to assemble it that way, rather just make sure they come with the protection already.
The amount of current capability of the protection circuit when I was using a DC to DC stepup converter had to also include the efficiency for conversion current as well as the load current since the protection circuit came before the DC to DC Converter.
Now this is a nit picky idea. Some places have vehicle mission rules, but little is said about enerators or other service machinery. Would it be ok sometimes to turn off the engine while riding, as it would be illegal, but turn it on when parked, as it would be a valid power source for electrical equipment?
Thanks MT & Steve I'll attempt to digest this material at some point today. I just placed my order for a 1200 watt 48 volt front hub kit so I'm committed it seems & I need to sort out the charging parameters soon. I've somewhat hedged my position by ordering a 20 amp 48 volt lead cell charger as well for the sidecar, as I want the heavier batteries for added ballast weight. It seems I've read that lithium does not like to be charged while also discharging (in use/under load) & if it's also finicky about charging from an alternator I'd think the lead cells a better option for charging with the small gas motor driving the alternator. I'm curious but at some point one has to wonder about any great benefit derived from this particular hybrid arrangement. My thoughts are running towards carrying two lithium power packs on extended cruises & using one for running daily errands. I also ordered a rear fat tire rack that's rated at 106 lbs. max load weight. It's designed for use with panniers so I can mount the extra batteries lower if necessary. I don't see the weight of one battery pack being carried atop the rack much of a balance problem while riding, though one of the reasons I added the drive off stand was to securely hold that extra weight while parked.
I need to enroll in battery school.
Rick C.
I need to enroll in battery school.
Rick C.
Glad you brought this legal question into the discussion Ludwig. I certainly don't have an answer even as concerns my own very rural area. What seems common sense is quite often ignored by our personal "nannies through regulation keepers" & fear that eventually riding on two wheels will ultimately be banned, regulators citing the law of gravity as a precedent & the unpredictable nature of each individuals equilibrium being far too uncertain & dangerous...walking will obviously be the legislators next area of legislative concern thus requiring extensive "scientific" research ultimately resulting in the passing of voluminous ordinances to protect us from our own inadequacies. It should be obvious that "they" know best....also thanks MT & Steve the links you posted are quite informative.
Rick C.
Rick C.
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Guys the E bikes need an extra "regulatory" overload fuse link to deal with the lunacy factors.
I've come to what I feel is a no tech, yet practical solution of pulling a special battery/tool & parts wagon on long hauls. Wide frame with 20" wheels & built with twin axle stubs, mounted high to keep the center of gravity low & the bed flat. A lot of contingencies covered. I've a small factory built trailer I can do preliminary tests with loads up to 100 lbs. the tires are tiny but it's fine around town a low speeds.
I'll continue to learn as I go on the electrics and hybrid concepts, but feel the legislative beavers will build a dam each time a pristine stream seems navigable.
Rick C.
I've come to what I feel is a no tech, yet practical solution of pulling a special battery/tool & parts wagon on long hauls. Wide frame with 20" wheels & built with twin axle stubs, mounted high to keep the center of gravity low & the bed flat. A lot of contingencies covered. I've a small factory built trailer I can do preliminary tests with loads up to 100 lbs. the tires are tiny but it's fine around town a low speeds.
I'll continue to learn as I go on the electrics and hybrid concepts, but feel the legislative beavers will build a dam each time a pristine stream seems navigable.
Rick C.
I seem on a slippery slope with electrics, therefore I'm concentrating on the hills I consider to be greens before advancing to blue and then the double blacks. Start with lead cells and graduate to lithium as I learn.
I've ridden the fat tire 48 v. front hub a few miles to this point & it's great fun. The big tires just float along & it's quite comfortable for a rigid. I rode in the wet yesterday and grip was great! It's a fixie but pedals well, though hills are a challenge without motor assist, so no surprise there. I short charged a new set of sealed lead batteries' that are only 5 amp units (what I had) for my first mileage trial, but covered more than four miles with some pedal assist before testing the pedals full time for the final mile home. I'd ridden a few blocks previously & was impressed with the quickness of the 1,200 watt hub, so the mileage test was conducted at low speeds on varied terrain. I'll repeat the same route today with a full charge. I'm not expecting much more than the initial result with the small capacity batteries'. I know lead cells and found some new twenty amp sealed cell batteries locally for sixty cents per amp (per battery) so I've bought the entire lot, enough to build three 48 v. packs.
That brings me back to hybrid's & the 3 hp Lifan plus alternator mounted in a trailer to charge up packs on longer adventures. At almost 44 lbs. per pack plus the weight of the engine, fuel and trailer say 80 lbs. this is pretty heavy load for an already substantial bike weight. I can't see this as a viable option as compared with just trailering a couple of extra charged battery packs giving a total of 60 amp hours.
Distance traveled to total load weight carried is a big factor as well. I'm 170 lbs. but a much larger rider also figures into the equations. Of course the only reason lead batteries make any sense at all in my case is that my initial cost per amp hour is so low, less than $30. per 48 v. pack, that and the fact that 44 lbs. of battery added to my weight is still modest when compared with many riders.
Using lithium packs with the charging alternator/gas engine setup could still be a reasonable approach, but I can't see it with lead. Still learning so help me out here.
Rick C.
I've ridden the fat tire 48 v. front hub a few miles to this point & it's great fun. The big tires just float along & it's quite comfortable for a rigid. I rode in the wet yesterday and grip was great! It's a fixie but pedals well, though hills are a challenge without motor assist, so no surprise there. I short charged a new set of sealed lead batteries' that are only 5 amp units (what I had) for my first mileage trial, but covered more than four miles with some pedal assist before testing the pedals full time for the final mile home. I'd ridden a few blocks previously & was impressed with the quickness of the 1,200 watt hub, so the mileage test was conducted at low speeds on varied terrain. I'll repeat the same route today with a full charge. I'm not expecting much more than the initial result with the small capacity batteries'. I know lead cells and found some new twenty amp sealed cell batteries locally for sixty cents per amp (per battery) so I've bought the entire lot, enough to build three 48 v. packs.
That brings me back to hybrid's & the 3 hp Lifan plus alternator mounted in a trailer to charge up packs on longer adventures. At almost 44 lbs. per pack plus the weight of the engine, fuel and trailer say 80 lbs. this is pretty heavy load for an already substantial bike weight. I can't see this as a viable option as compared with just trailering a couple of extra charged battery packs giving a total of 60 amp hours.
Distance traveled to total load weight carried is a big factor as well. I'm 170 lbs. but a much larger rider also figures into the equations. Of course the only reason lead batteries make any sense at all in my case is that my initial cost per amp hour is so low, less than $30. per 48 v. pack, that and the fact that 44 lbs. of battery added to my weight is still modest when compared with many riders.
Using lithium packs with the charging alternator/gas engine setup could still be a reasonable approach, but I can't see it with lead. Still learning so help me out here.
Rick C.
Now back to hybrids & my fat bike. Having a front hub electric fat bike to use as a test bed; I'm still considering mounting my 3 hp Lifan 4 stroke as a driver for the rear wheel. This has to be more efficient than using the gas engine for generating power to recharge battery packs. This plus adding 3hp and all wheel drive. My thought is CVT power train & leave the engine as is (with the exception of disabling the governor) including the engine gas tank...super quiet operation & compact. Fuel capacity could be easily be increased with a spare peanut tank used as a reserve.
The straddle tube is really the only mod I'd require on the frame to accommodate the small engine and the weight increase would only add about 30 lbs.
Rick C.
The straddle tube is really the only mod I'd require on the frame to accommodate the small engine and the weight increase would only add about 30 lbs.
Rick C.