Bikeguy Joe
Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Thanks Mike!
hoot gearbox oil level?
- Thread starter linnix13
- Start date
civlized
New Member
http://motorbicycling.com/f37/hoot-rebuild-testers-5738.html
Motorboys, I am sorry to report to you that I could not find any pics of the gearbox or left over parts. That was many months ago and I guess my wife has cleaned up behind me (as usual, I can't find anything). Above is a link to a thread a while back that might be able to get you in touch with someone that can help you better than I can. They tried to beef up the little gb's to make them last longer. I have been looking for pics on this site and can't find any, so far. Don't fret, though. If you keep riding it, you or linnix will more than likely have your own that you can get a couple of pics from. I hope this is not the case and they serve you well.
To let you in on what happened to both of mine, the small primary gear that is connected to the bell got chewed up like it was plastic. Also, the 2nd driven gear that meshes with the primary was not aligned properly, which seemed like slack in the bearing or axle, and rubbed the outer cover of the gearbox. Most of the screaming sound was from this gear rubbing the housing. After I shimmed this gear, most of the really noisy screaming stopped. That didn't do much to save the little primary that couldn't though. I must admit that I really liked this gb while it lasted. The gearing was pretty good for my taste and I like the way it looks more than the grubee. One of it's downfalls could be that the final output doesn't freewheel. That puts a lot of reverse energy on that little primary gear when the bike is stopping if the sprocket on the wheel doesn't freewheel either.
Best of luck!
Motorboys, I am sorry to report to you that I could not find any pics of the gearbox or left over parts. That was many months ago and I guess my wife has cleaned up behind me (as usual, I can't find anything). Above is a link to a thread a while back that might be able to get you in touch with someone that can help you better than I can. They tried to beef up the little gb's to make them last longer. I have been looking for pics on this site and can't find any, so far. Don't fret, though. If you keep riding it, you or linnix will more than likely have your own that you can get a couple of pics from. I hope this is not the case and they serve you well.
To let you in on what happened to both of mine, the small primary gear that is connected to the bell got chewed up like it was plastic. Also, the 2nd driven gear that meshes with the primary was not aligned properly, which seemed like slack in the bearing or axle, and rubbed the outer cover of the gearbox. Most of the screaming sound was from this gear rubbing the housing. After I shimmed this gear, most of the really noisy screaming stopped. That didn't do much to save the little primary that couldn't though. I must admit that I really liked this gb while it lasted. The gearing was pretty good for my taste and I like the way it looks more than the grubee. One of it's downfalls could be that the final output doesn't freewheel. That puts a lot of reverse energy on that little primary gear when the bike is stopping if the sprocket on the wheel doesn't freewheel either.
Best of luck!
linnix13
Member
yes! put me down for one, although my hoot has been working great so far im not keen to the 9000db whine and i would love to try out the chain one, thanks
linnix13
Member
YES i have noticed that, there is so much engine braking that my back tire actualy skids if im on gravel, so what i do it when i want to stop i put the throttle to 5% and just ride the breaks until it stops, then i let of the gas, because i think that all that engine breaking is what kills the gearbox,
so motorboys, what if you made a freewheel back sprocket? that might just help increase the life of the hoot,
linnix13
Member
well thats encouraging, my box looks nothing like that, clutch is different, and the second and third gear mesh differently than in that box(atleast it looks like it) im not sure i will check again, il take some pictures of my gearbox now that it has 250kms on it, im curious to see how its worn or if it has at all, i also need to fix the carb and change the oil so Sunday sound like a plan!!
Motor Boys
New Member
Hey guys , I was out, thanks Mike for the imput and great detail.
Thanks again.
Civlised thanks for the pic. I rode mine for about an hour tonight and all is still well. I have not had the problems yet of the whining and alot of noise, or the braking issues yet. I really do thank you all for your help and keep it coming. I had a call from my china agent and I have asked for some help with this I really knew nothing about 4 stroke untill this week. I had been so happy selling 2's, But I was asked alot by people to get some 4's, I believe that linnix was one of the first, so I thought what the **** and jumped in, All the comments have made me a little gun shy myself,l I must admit. I do have to say I have sold quite a few and no problems yet (cross my fingers) Linnix glad to here you are over 250km's close to 200 miles. I thank you for getting me onto this site.
Latter guys.
Thanks again.
Civlised thanks for the pic. I rode mine for about an hour tonight and all is still well. I have not had the problems yet of the whining and alot of noise, or the braking issues yet. I really do thank you all for your help and keep it coming. I had a call from my china agent and I have asked for some help with this I really knew nothing about 4 stroke untill this week. I had been so happy selling 2's, But I was asked alot by people to get some 4's, I believe that linnix was one of the first, so I thought what the **** and jumped in, All the comments have made me a little gun shy myself,l I must admit. I do have to say I have sold quite a few and no problems yet (cross my fingers) Linnix glad to here you are over 250km's close to 200 miles. I thank you for getting me onto this site.
Latter guys.
I have personally seen 2 of these gearboxes have teeth self destruct after about 30 miles. Both purchased from the evil Bryan Simones and had straight teeth. One was repaired with angle teeth gears and failed about 50 miles later.This was about 3 years ago.
In the last few months 3 sellers have started claiming "upgraded" gearbox. I'm not sure if this means angled teeth or chain. They failed to answer my emails.
I am watching Linnix13s progress with great interest. I'd also like to know if Motorboys will stock replacement gears in case of failure and price. None listed on the site at this time.
In the last few months 3 sellers have started claiming "upgraded" gearbox. I'm not sure if this means angled teeth or chain. They failed to answer my emails.
I am watching Linnix13s progress with great interest. I'd also like to know if Motorboys will stock replacement gears in case of failure and price. None listed on the site at this time.
Bikeguy Joe
Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
From the sound of it, you may want to shim that intermediate gear when you get it apart.
Bikeguy Joe
Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
I suspect they shipped those boxes full of oil, not because they require oil to run in, but to keep the noise dampened when running the thing.
I have seen centrifugal clutches that run in oil, just not sure about yours. The shoes could be made of anything from asbestos to donkey poop coming from china.
I have seen centrifugal clutches that run in oil, just not sure about yours. The shoes could be made of anything from asbestos to donkey poop coming from china.
MotorbikeMike
Dealer
Hi guys, there were a couple of things that I forgot to mention, while discussing my Hoot experiences.
The first thing that comes to mind is a devastating design flaw, that may or may not affect the early running of these boxes, but will surely bite you in the Buff when it arises, and that is the clutch bell bushing rides directly on the crankshaft end. So, now the poorly engineered box is actually damaging your engine as you ride!
The Grube box (I did have one, never rode it) solves this problem by having a hard steel "collar" or bushing that is keyed to the shaft. This keeps the wear isolated to the bushing inside the clutch, and the removable collar. This is far better than the Hoot method.
More Hoot observations:
#1 Noise in a drive train means heat is being made, and who needs heat on their leg, or added to their engine? (the noise I refer to is the howling gears)
#2 Power loss, this is interesting, the very fact that you are meshing the teeth costs power, add to that the poor quality of the teeth, this means more loss, NOW the icing on the cake, when you fill the box with either oil, or grease, or even a mixture thereof, you have again added resistance in the box (think of walking in a swimming pool, how difficult that can be?)
#3 Lack of set-screws, this is odd, they did not design with setscrews, so to "fix" the parts to the shafts, they apparently take an impact tool of some kind, and beat, and flower over the end of the keys to keep clutch in place, weird, and a very bad thing, as they also sometimes damage the keyway in the crankshaft while hammering the key in place (also real hard to remove for service).
Freewheels on Motor Bicycles, here a lot of you will not agree with me, but I will state my beliefs.
#1 cheap freewheels break, and they use cheap ones on the boxes (if they are present)
#2 Most Motor Bicycles do not have an excess of braking power, and engine braking is a valuable asset.
#3 "freewheeling" is not as safe as being "connected" to the road, and actually feels weird to a Motorcycle rider
#4 Freewheels do not come in 10 teeth and this causes need for larger rear sprockets, not devastating, but not an asset either.
#5 Smart money would seem to say, that the KISS principal can be the difference between completing your ride, or pushing, pedaling or calling for help, therefore, in every event I vote NO on freewheels in the drive train.
These guys seem most lucky here, because in baseball 3 strikes and you are out! I can easily count more than 3 strikes.
If anyone needs parts to repair a gear-drive Hoot (also called here "Figure 8" hoot box, I have a supply of new "Take-Offs" reasonable).
If I recall any more points of interest, I will put them in this thread, I do know, that a few of these boxes have run reasonably well for a few people, but the failure rate over all is deplorable.
Ride carefully,
Mike
The first thing that comes to mind is a devastating design flaw, that may or may not affect the early running of these boxes, but will surely bite you in the Buff when it arises, and that is the clutch bell bushing rides directly on the crankshaft end. So, now the poorly engineered box is actually damaging your engine as you ride!
The Grube box (I did have one, never rode it) solves this problem by having a hard steel "collar" or bushing that is keyed to the shaft. This keeps the wear isolated to the bushing inside the clutch, and the removable collar. This is far better than the Hoot method.
More Hoot observations:
#1 Noise in a drive train means heat is being made, and who needs heat on their leg, or added to their engine? (the noise I refer to is the howling gears)
#2 Power loss, this is interesting, the very fact that you are meshing the teeth costs power, add to that the poor quality of the teeth, this means more loss, NOW the icing on the cake, when you fill the box with either oil, or grease, or even a mixture thereof, you have again added resistance in the box (think of walking in a swimming pool, how difficult that can be?)
#3 Lack of set-screws, this is odd, they did not design with setscrews, so to "fix" the parts to the shafts, they apparently take an impact tool of some kind, and beat, and flower over the end of the keys to keep clutch in place, weird, and a very bad thing, as they also sometimes damage the keyway in the crankshaft while hammering the key in place (also real hard to remove for service).
Freewheels on Motor Bicycles, here a lot of you will not agree with me, but I will state my beliefs.
#1 cheap freewheels break, and they use cheap ones on the boxes (if they are present)
#2 Most Motor Bicycles do not have an excess of braking power, and engine braking is a valuable asset.
#3 "freewheeling" is not as safe as being "connected" to the road, and actually feels weird to a Motorcycle rider
#4 Freewheels do not come in 10 teeth and this causes need for larger rear sprockets, not devastating, but not an asset either.
#5 Smart money would seem to say, that the KISS principal can be the difference between completing your ride, or pushing, pedaling or calling for help, therefore, in every event I vote NO on freewheels in the drive train.
These guys seem most lucky here, because in baseball 3 strikes and you are out! I can easily count more than 3 strikes.
If anyone needs parts to repair a gear-drive Hoot (also called here "Figure 8" hoot box, I have a supply of new "Take-Offs" reasonable).
If I recall any more points of interest, I will put them in this thread, I do know, that a few of these boxes have run reasonably well for a few people, but the failure rate over all is deplorable.
Ride carefully,
Mike
Motor Boys
New Member
I will take some, I have now ripped apart 4 of them just to see if they are all the same. They are packed in oil, I think engine oil, not gear oil ( maybe to keep the rust off for there trip over sea's ). The teeth are not up and down , They are on a slant. I will have pics tomorrow.
Thanks
Thanks
linnix13
Member
yeah if i could get my darn camera back i would do it myself, the clutch looks decent, i would love to get a wet centrifugal clutch and fill the case with oil, anyone have any ideas how i can convert it to a wet clutch? thanks
RebelMoby
New Member
There is a picture before that is posted but the gear set it not in the picture just the drive gear which was a spur gear (teeth parallel to the shaft). If the ones you have are helical gears (cut at an angle as compared to the shaft) then the design is to try to counter the gear wandering up and down on the shaft. Helical gears allow for looser tollerances then spur gears for alignment of the shaft.
I am thinking that probably what the gearboxes need is just a wave washer on the idler gear to stop it from wandering and to work as a thrust surface. Then some light oil as the gears do not have a severe amount of loading.
I am thinking that probably what the gearboxes need is just a wave washer on the idler gear to stop it from wandering and to work as a thrust surface. Then some light oil as the gears do not have a severe amount of loading.
industrialphreak
Member
This may be a little late, but at least here are some hoot gearbox pictures. I am having some problems myself i ended up having to drain the box of the nasty grey goopy oil from ****, clean it all off with break cleaner and apply high temp bearing grease to the teeth, fired it up and it runs like a champ. Down side now after running for a bit and the engine gets to operational temp i start loosing power. I checked my engine oil level and its fine using aes 30 weight oil. any suggestions or did i royally bork my engine?
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