Help! Need Expert!

B

Blackrain2012

New Member
PLEASE HELP IF YOU KNOW AALLOOTT ABOUT THIS STUFF!

HELLO FORUM!

I am new to this site and joined just for someone to help me who knows what their talking about!!


Ok, so we bought the cruiser bike about 4 days ago and have used up three days trying to get it to work! Here is a list of the problems we have had:


Probs:

-Motor did not mount right
-chain is grinding against the tire
-Chain Tension probs
-clutch wont disengage
-Rear sprocket did not fit


We fixed all of the above EXCEPT for

the chain grinding against the tire and
the CLUTCH NOT DISENGAGING!


Ok, im very frustrated and have almost given up completely!


I have contacted the website i bought all the junk from and they dont help at ALL!


I have a way to fix the chain shredding the tire but i need help finding the parts:

i will put one of 3 of the black rubber things behind the rear sprocket instead of one. This should move the chain away from the tire. WHERE DO I BUY MORE OF THOSE THINGS?!



THANX VVVVEEEERRRRYYYY much for all of your help. it HAS been appreciated greatly!


-Christopher N.
 
Post the brand of the bike you will probably get an answer. If not you can go with the M.M sprocket adapter from pirate cycles the vender on the left.Not the cheapest route but an excellent product that will make your bike ride smoother . Also the kit tensioner sometimes needs to be twisted just a bit to match the angle of the frame. and it must be secured properly.. as for rag joints you can find them here http://thatsdax.com/ENGINE_KIT_PARTS_PAGE_2.html
 
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Clutch problems eh?
Here's a link to the little beast for reference if necessary:
http://motorbicycling.com/f4/bicycle-engine-clutch-222.html
I am not saying to tear into the clutch yet. Don't take me wrong here!

Alot of the clutches in these engines get locked up during their stay in a box on a shelf just waiting for months on end to get sold.
First make sure that you do not have too much slack in the clutch cable.
When the clutch lever is released all the way out there should be just a little bit of free play in the cable. The release lever should be able to wiggle a little, but you should not be able to swing it back and forth. Tension on the cable is not good either.

If that is all good, squeeze the lever in and, while sitting on the seat with all your weight, rock the bike back and forth hard. It may take 5 to 25 times. That should free up the clutch for you.
If it does not we can do another relatively easy procedure.
Let us know what happens. :)
 
Blackrain2012 said:
Ok, so we bought the cruiser bike about 4 days ago and have used up three days trying to get it to work! Here is a list of the problems we have had:
-Christopher N.
Click to expand...
Did you buy it assembled? Or put the kit on yourself?
Do you have at least a cell phone camera?
 
OK, STILL need a lot of help!

You said to let you know how the clutch problem turns out. Here's what happened:

1 The clutch was failing to disengage
2 I held the clutch lever and sharply rocked the bike 46 times
3 the clutch is still failing to disengage.
4 i am prepared to fully disassemble the motor to fix this.

Here is my current clutch setup:

-when the clutch handle is fully depressed the clutch lever on the engine is as far back as it can go
-inside the clutch there is a ball bering and a thick pin shaped object: IS there supposed to be some sort of spring inside of the clutch to help it disengage, if so, WHERE is it supposed to go and where do i buy one?


I would !GREATLY! appreciate if you would respond to my email address b/c i check that every few hours while i only check the forum every few days.

Here is my email: [email protected]


AGAIN: i am prepared to FULLY disassemble my engine if that is what it takes but if i dont have to take it off the bike it would be great!
 
Sounds like you have the cover off the chain side of your engine. Take the cover off the other side and see the clutch plate with flower nut. I had the same problem with my first engine and had to remove the clutch plate set screw and flower nut to break the clutch plate free. Then I had to tighten the flower nut with channel locks to get it tight enough for the clutch arm to move the pin enough for the plate to be free while riding.

There are some really good animations for how the clutch works, on here, and Norman has a great tutorial about it and there's a good youtube vid with clutch checklist in the title.

Don't worry, man, you'll figure it out! Then you'll get addicted and buy more kits to put on different bikes with different mounting techniques, different brake types, then you'll try all the power mods, and won't have time for anything else in your life...

Yeah, my addiction is going something like that... :)
 
Adjusting the clutch:
1. Adjust clutch cable so there is a little bit of slack in the inner wire when the hand lever is released all the way out.
2. Remove gear case cover from right side of engine.
3. Remove lock screw from clutch outer plate. It's the little screw that fits into the notches on the edge of the center nut (called a flower nut).
4. Squeeze in clutch hand lever until it touches the hand grip. Hold it there with some tape or a piece of wire.
5. While pushing in on the outer clutch plate with one hand, tighten the flower nut until snug, just using your fingertips. Do not use pliers, ect.
6. Unscrew flower nut 1 1/2 turns out, aligning a notch on the flower nut with the hole in the outer clutch plate that the lock screw goes into.
7. Install lock screw but don't tighten it just yet.
8. Remove tape or wire from hand lever and let it release all the way out.
9. Tighten lock screw for flower nut.
10. Adjust clutch cable if necessary to give just a little free play to the inner cable when the hand lever is all the way out. You should be able to wiggle the clutch release arm a little.
11. Install gear case cover and test ride. Every clutch is a little different.
You may have to fine tune the adjustment of the flower nut by a few notches.
 
Blackrain2012 said:
The clutch is locked...
The Pin is sticking out and WONT go in. I even gave it 2 sharp hits with a hammer like gear-nut said along time ago!
Click to expand...
You have your clutch engaged, it is not suppose to go in ;-}

I just did this morning, Grubee 66cc motor with dried grease in the friction plate bearing.

The grease in the Bearing Seam is what dries out and it causes the friction plate to bond to the transfer shaft from the drive sprocket.

clutchBreak.jpg


This is a 10 minute job when you have your drive chain hooked up.

1. Get your clutch cable all set up and take any slack out of the cable.
Make it tight enough so there is tension on the arm, and you get a 1/2" of clutch arm movement and when locked enough to pull the arm in a good 3/8'.

2. Pull the cover, then remove the flower nut set screw.

3. Lock the clutch lever engaged, and just push in on the aluminum clutch engage plate with your hand and remove the black flower nut.
You should be able to twist it off with your fingers.
Pull off the plate and pull the spring off as well.

4. Use your big standard screwdriver, which just happens to be the correct size to take out the cover screws, and use two of the 3 drive pegs as a fulcrum.
NOTE! The center actuator shaft is NOT a fulcrum point! Go between two of the actual drive posts!

clutch.jpg


5. Tilt your bike back so the rear wheel is up and give the screwdriver a sharp shove.
Down on the left in this case but it doesn't matter which way you go, just get the best leverage.
Even with the plug out this usually works, put it in if it don't to keep the motor gear from moving.

6. Now that it is free, scrape any gunk out of between the clutch plate pads, put some grease in there but don't overdo it on the friction pads, mostly the gears, center shaft, and that bearing seam.

7. With clutch locked engaged...
Put the spring and engage plate back on, push it in while you screw the flower nut on to make it easy.

8. Now that you have the bearing freed up and your clutch cable set up right, you can adjust it right here and now.

Twist on the flower nut until it fells like the plate is not quite firm with the friction plate.

Roll your bike. Did it roll free with the clutch locked?
If not back the flower nut off 1/2 a turn.
Repeat until it does.

Now release the clutch lock and try to roll you bike. Was the motor engaged?
If not you have to turn the flower nut back in some.

9. When you can roll free with the clutch locked and not with it unlocked...
Put your clutch cover back on, you are set and your clutch is adjusted!

I wasn't kidding when I said 10 minutes, not counting the time to take some pics.
Part of it is the order you go for assembling.
This method won't for all, but it sure works for me if the bearing is froze or not.

Hope that helps in new cases, no telling about this one.
 
Looking at the video, your clutch cable is extremely loose!
You cannot adjust the clutch the way I instructed unless the cable is first adjusted properly.
Loosen up the screw that goes in the side of the brass cable end, and while keeping the cable in the hole in the end of the clutch release arm, pull the clutch cable through both the arm and brass end untill the cable is snug, and tighten down the screw in the brass cable end. The cable should now be a teeny bit loose and the arm should barely be able to wiggle in the side cover.
After doing this, you will need to readjust the clutch again, this time it should be proper as the cable will be relatively tight to the release arm like it should.
 
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The brake arm must be left attached to the wheel hub or severe damage could (will) occur.
You have to bend the arm to clear the bolt heads and also align with the frame.
Your rear wheel is loose because the bearing cones (most likely the one on the left, brake arm side) have unscrewed and this has the made the bearing pre-load too loose.

How well does the rear sprocket line up with the engine sprocket?
The chain will not tolerate alot of misalignment. It will instead jump off of the rear sprocket and could get jammed up around the engine sprocket, possibly breaking the case.
 
Blackrain2012 said:
Ok, go to this link and watch video. PLEASE do it and tell me what u think. THE PROBLEM WAS COMPLETELY REVERSED IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!
Click to expand...
S mentioned above you have no tension on your clutch cable.

I laid it all out for you with pics as the last post on page 1.

I don't have sound but your rear sprocket thing...
If your hub will move back and forth you need to tighten the inner hub nuts until it don't.
And really, pull that tensioner off!
You don't NEED to use all the chain in the kit!

NoTent.jpg


You can get chain breaker at Ace Hardware for $5.

Pop off the master, move your wheel forward enough to give a little slack in the pedal side chain and break your chain where it goes direct to wheel and put the master back in.
THAT MEANS TWO SMALL ENDS TOGETHER!

Then adjust your back wheel so it is squared up, the drive chain is good and snug, and you have chain clearance on both side of the wheel.

If you can't get the slack out of your pedal side, put the tensioner on that side.

No offense, but really, 5 days into this and you can't adjust a bike lever cable?
These kits require more than just the ability to ride a bicylce.
You need to understand how they work, and then learn how the kits work with them.

We can sit here for another a week and type and give you pics but until you can grasp the simplest of concepts of how to adjust a cable lever we are all wasting our time.

Again, no offense, but start with the basics before you go any further.
Thanks ;-}
 
Oh yeah, get rid of the spring that is in between the clutch cable stop (adjustable thing that the cable goes into on the top of the case) and the clutch release arm. It is not necessary.
That spring has caused more confusion for noobs than should be legal.
 
Yes, that spring can be a pain.
I usually leave it on but as you mentioned it is not needed if your cable tightens itself back up without it.

One easy way to get that brass cable stay where it needs to go is pull the clutch cab;e through the clutch arm, slide it on, take out the slack with the arm push to the point of resistance and mark the cable with a felt pin.

Slide the cable out of the grove in the clutch arm, and move the brass lock 1/4" past your mark and tighten it down good.

Now push the clutch arm in with right hand and slip the cable back in the grove.
When you release the clutch arm your cable should have good tension on it now, and when you pull the clutch lever the clutch arm will actually move.
 
Ok, see if you can help me out. I have been having clutch probs since i got this bike:

My clutch is either stuck in the engaged position or the disengaged position.

-if i loosen the flower nut 1 more notch, the clutch will be stuck in the engaged position
-if i tighten it too much, the clutch will be stuck in the disengaged position.
-I have spent hours testing each notch until it was too tight or too loose, and there is NO perfect position.
-is there anything guaranteed to work? if there is ill do it


FOR THE RECORD, I KNOW ALL ABOUT THIS STUFF, IVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS STUFF FOR A LONG TIME. This one is just a PAIN IN THE A**! Srry for the Lang.
 
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Have you tightened up your clutch cable yet?
The only problem I have seen concerning your clutch is the cable is absurdly loose.
You can mess with the flower nut until the threads wear out.
It is impossible to adjust the clutch properly if the cable is not first adjusted properly.

Look at all of the bikes in the photo section. pay close attention to how the clutch cables are adjusted on them. Look at how the release lever sticking out of the top of the sprocket cover sits and compare all of that to how your bike is right now.

KCvale gave you some good instructions on how to adjust the cable.
The only thing I can add to is is:
(Modified directly from KCvale's post)
One easy way to get that brass cable end to stay where it needs to go is to pull the clutch cable through the clutch arm, slide cable through the hole in the brass end and slide it all the way down until it is against the release arm Take out the slack in the cable by pulling out on the cable (towards the left side of the bike) while pushing in on the release arm (towards the right side of the bike) to the point where the release arm has resistance and while still holding the cable tight and the arm pushed in towards the right, mark the cable on the inside of the release arm (right side) with a felt pen.

Follow the rest of KCvales instructions and you will have a properly adjusted cable.
Only after that can you adjust the clutch properly.
 
KC and GearNut, good job and really well done. Thanks. This should be a sticky.

KC, love dat MoonDawg! How do you still have white, white walls? Really is a great foundation for a MB.

Sorry to interrupt and go OT. Just sayin'
 
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