has anyone tried e85 yet?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by noco, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    E10 is not known for doing damage to plastic and rubber components in the short term.
    It will however do damage in the long term.
    E85 does the same only much quicker.
    Any E10 or E85 will harm gasoline resistant plastic components, nitryl rubber seals and o-rings, ect.
    Any water it may have absorbed will attack aluminum components, and give brass parts a green finish.
    It will also attack and remove cream or paint type gas tank liners as well. That is another reason why all modern gas tanks are made of plastic. Any water that may accumulate in the gas will not corrode plastic.
    I have seen the damage E85 does myself.
    I have seen and read many studies regarding what it can do to antique and even just older car and motorcycle engines.
    There is a reason why modern fuel injected systems use alot of stainless steel and silicone or silicone based o-rings and seals. They are resistant to the effects of Ethanol content.
    The plastic parts used for E10/ E85 systems are not the same type of plastic used for gasoline either.
    Do the reasearch, educate yourself.
    Better yet, go to your local marina and ask the mechanics there what it does to the older boat engines!
     
  2. noco

    noco New Member

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    dude i am a mechanic...havent seen many problems from the fuel...your right though...fuel systems are meant for the added corrosiveness...i havent been able to see any marine motors though....i do live in colorado....not a whole lot of marinas here...i decided im not concerned about junking some parts...lets face it they really arent very expensive...i am really just concerned about the thing loosing its bottom end quickly...corrosion of the fuel system componants is not such a big deal to me...you do make a good point about the fuel in the crankcase but it is gonna be mixxed with oil...what have the outboard mechanics said about this???
     
  3. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    To give you a bit of my background, I am a Harley mechanic, specializing on older models.
    I have been working on all brands of motorcycles for 27 years.
    The damage I have seen is:
    Pitting of the float bowl and carburetor body (internal).
    White oxide in the fuel and air passages of the carburetor body.
    Brass Idle mixture fuel screw needles turning green, and altering the mixture.
    The little o-ring that seals the above idle screw swelling and becomint a PITA to get out.
    White plastic floats disentergrating into a kind of sandy, crumbly stuff.
    The viton rubber tip on the float needle swelling up to near twice it's origional size. This is leading to lowering the fuel level in the float bowl,which can cause poor idling and high speed lean out.
    Float bowl o-rings swelling up to the point where gas starts weeping around the seam.
    Accelerator pump diaphragms deteriorating and getting pinhole leaks in only a few years instead of 10 or so.
    White oxide dusting in the intake ports of aluminum heads.
    Slightly green bronze (Ampco45) intake valve guides.
    Factory applied gas tank liners blistering and sluffing off in chunks.
    Kreem brand do-it-yourself tank liners turning into a thick, slimy muck inside the tank.
    And that is just what I have seen in the past 5 years or so.
    Before that all I really had to deal with was dry rotted or hardened seals, o-rings, rubber parts, or water damage due to a bike being left out in someone's backyard for years.
    Now I am seeing all kinds of new problems in daily riders.
    I am also seeing some very strange sparkplug deposits. I know what typical cheap gas station gas deposits looks like on a sparkplug, but now I am seeing, white, green or orange deposits, And not a fluffy deposit but kind of a prickly appearance?
    The few folks I have talked to in the marine industry are seeing a sharp increase in rusted out gas tanks, diaphragm type fuel pump failures, hardening of fuel lines, and very corroded carburetors.
    They have it worse as any type of ethanol absorbs water or water vapor. Think of where a boat lives.
    Gas dryer, available in most any auto parts store, is mostly alcohol. Go ahead and read the label on one if they actually list the ingredients.
    Used ocasionally, it does no harm.
    This ethanol crap gas is a whole new ball game!
     
  4. noco

    noco New Member

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    hmm something to think about.............well i dont care about the carb...ill see how my oil experiment goes befor i try it...i dont have a huge amount of experiance with the e85 but every pump is e10...i got experiance running alcohol in 4 stroke rails down the strip and have seen what it can do...ill give it a shot...whats the worse that can happen i blow a $70 engine???im not gambling with a car here.
     
    #24 noco, Sep 29, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
  5. HoughMade

    HoughMade New Member

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  6. noco

    noco New Member

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    been running e85 for 2 weeks...its burning it...oh and that article you put up hough made kinda was reading like stereo instructions...i didn't have the attention span for all of it....its allittle lacking on some high end...maybe its time to modify...if e85 requires less air than maybe i could increase the jet...i dont know but i finally got some time off to tinker
     
  7. bandito

    bandito New Member

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    Ok its been awhile since I worked for a living on cars so correct me if Im wrong. Isnt current regular gas 10% ethanol? Around my hood all the gas pumps have those stickers saying this fuel contains ethanol 10% by volume I think. E85 is 15% ethanol by volume so just 5% difference is going to ruin your motor? I know not to run E85 in a car thats not designed for it but its hard to imagine just 5% being that critical. Input please?
     
  8. foureasy

    foureasy New Member

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    i believe it is 85% ethanol. 15% gas
     
  9. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    That is correct.
    E85= 85% ethanol.
    E10= 10% ethanol.
     
  10. foureasy

    foureasy New Member

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    i will be running e85 in my new 79cc motor for the death race because i am concerned about heat issues.
     
  11. bandito

    bandito New Member

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    OK now I know thanks.
     
  12. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Where did your engine come from and did you make any changes at all?
     
  13. noco

    noco New Member

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    the motor is a no name bikeberry motor(flying horse or something) and ive made no changes yet...i dont know how much longevity ill get out of it but this motor has got 1000s of miles on it and was starting to wear out anyway...ill keep you informed on how it goes...

    has anyone tried making there own alcohol fuels yet....ive seen some info on people starting to make there own...anyone have any experiance???
     
  14. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    I did but was dissapointed in how much effort and expense was involved. There's the fermentation and then the still. Easier to just go out and pick up a few liters of Vodka.


    I'm thinking of giving this a try and wondering if denatured ethanol from paint stores will work. Where do you get your E85?
     
  15. Venice Motor Bikes

    Venice Motor Bikes Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles

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    I was reading a Harley service manual last night, & it says not to use gas with methanol because of possible internal engine dammage & rubber component rotting.

    Might not apply to E-85? But, just thought I'd share that.
     
  16. HoughMade

    HoughMade New Member

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    Oh, I think it would apply moreso to E-85...but that being said, I am willing to risk my relatively simple Honda engine...and I don't think it is an much of a risk. If I do this, I will be increasing compression to around 10:1 (depending an what can be accomplished with head milling given the shape of the combustion chamber and concerns over valve interference) and rejetting the carb.
     
  17. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    I am a Harley mechanic.
    I have all ready listed the possible reprocussions of using E10 (slow damage) and E85 (faster damage).
    I also understand the difference between a $60.00 engine and a $6000.00 engine.
    Feel free to play around with the corn-a-gas. The worst it could do is ruin $60.00 and a bit of time in labor. These things are all about fun and, for some, experimentation right?! :)
     
  18. noco

    noco New Member

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    i wouldnt know how denatured alcohol would work...how much does it cost???if its anything like the alcohol we use at the strip than we would need a much higher compression ratio...i was thinking of trying to add that kerosine additive...i saw a posting about this here called whack gas....the guy said it worked...thanks for your input on making fuel...i think im gonna take your word for it and continue to buy my fuel

    ...i just get the e85 from the western station down the road....
     

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