Flower Nut Vs Stanchion Collar

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by xlite, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    I have a question about HT clutch. What is the relationship between adjusting the collar under the stanchion hole and tightening the flower nut? Do they both effect clutch pad tension the same or unrelated?
     
  2. george_n_texas

    george_n_texas New Member

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    I opened mine up on the right side of the engine and the dish as pretty loose in there I went ahead and took it completely off just to see the chutch pads and reasembled it. I gotta believe the flower nut has to have a lot to do with adjusting the clutch as that dish is what the pads do their friction gripping on.
     
  3. 2door

    2door Moderator
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  4. george_n_texas

    george_n_texas New Member

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    That is way cool animation. Thanks!
     
  5. Maxvision

    Maxvision New Member

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    Heh, funny you should post this thread at this time. Just had a problem with a used engine I picked up. Clutch was slipping, tightened up the flower nut as tight as I could but the clutch would still slip. Read a post on this forum somewhere about adjusting the primary clutch spring through the stanchion post.

    People were having problems with their clutch lever being so tight that they were breaking cables and such. Thought hey, maybe it works in reverse too. So I tightened the primary spring today. Will see tomorrow if the clutch still slips.

    So, from what I've gleaned so far, the flower nut will just adjust the throw of your clutch lever on the case (loosen and the lever will be further from the stanchion, tighten and the lever will be closer). Adjusting the primary spring from the stanchion post will change how much pressure your clutch plate will have on the clutch pads.
     
  6. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Yes, that is exactly my situation. Used engine slips and flower nut didn't help so I'm eyeing that stanchion hole. It's much more difficult than the flower nut so I'm waiting with bated breath to hear how it works out.
     
  7. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Yes, I saved those and all Jims drawings some time ago. True works of art.

    The drawings seem to indicate to me they both put more pressure on the clutch but I'm not famous for interpreting these things correctly. Max has a slightly different take so it will be very interesting to see how he makes out.
     
  8. Humsuckler

    Humsuckler New Member

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    i have adjusted a clutch through the stanchion hole, ad it really is the best way. dont even bother with the flower nut....

    here is what you do. pull in and lock the clutch, remove your carb with the manifold on it, remove your clutch cable holder from its place (STANCHION IF THATS WHAT ITS CALLED) get yourself a small centerpunch about 2mm across or less and put it in the hole, roll the bike backwards untill the punch engage the lockring. hold it in the ring and roll it back some more mabye two feet.

    the only pita is if you tighten it too much. if its too tight, repeat above but roll the bike forward instead.

    *desired result: a harder biting clutch.
     
  9. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    Yes! It is easy to do, but be advised that the adjustment can as Humsuckler said, be touchy.

    Great explanation Maxvision.
     
  10. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Pulling in and locking the clutch does not seem to work out. If I'm not mistaken the clutch cable must be removed in order to take out the stanchion. Locking clutch is a step for adjusting flower nut.

    So it appears the flower nut has nothing to do with getting the clutch to "bite" more?
     
  11. Maxvision

    Maxvision New Member

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    OK, results are in. Tightening the primary clutch spring through the hole in the case was a definite help. Still slipped a bit but the engine started and I drove around just fine. Hoping new clutch pads will eliminate the slip all together.
     
  12. Humsuckler

    Humsuckler New Member

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    duoiiiiiii! hahaha
     
  13. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Maybe you didn't tighten it enough. Is the lever VERY hard to pull now?

    I guess it's time for me to give it a try too.
     
  14. Humsuckler

    Humsuckler New Member

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    tighten it up a bit more and the slip should go away. the clutch pads in these are pretty tough
     
  15. Maxvision

    Maxvision New Member

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    I actually tightened it as far as it wanted to go without feeling like I was gonna screw up the teeth on the chain sprocket. Lever wasn't really much harder to pull where I have it. Clutch pads were full of oil too when I got it. Guess the guy tried lubing the ball bearings in there. Also found the shaft key for the crankshaft pinion gear inside the clutch...don't ya hate it when parts disappear from your workbench!

    Getting new clutch pads today.
     
  16. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Thanks. I've swapped out a half dozen of these clutch assemblies but never took one apart or even looked closely at one. Mine's slipping big time now. What's involved with changing the pads? Do I have to worry about 300 balls rolling out onto the floor?
     
  17. Maxvision

    Maxvision New Member

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    Once you remove the flower nut and pull off the outter clutch plate, the pads are right there and they just pull out. Nothing fancy about it other than you might need a screwdriver or needlenose pliers to pry or grab hold of them. They're only about 3/8 in. thick and come out real easy (well most of them will).

    clutch.jpg
     
  18. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Kinda sorta. You still have to have it dialed in, but if the range isn't correct, you'll need a new approach. What I recommend, BEFORE pulling the stanchion, is pull all the clutch pads and:

    1) Make sure the back side clutch plate is oil/grease free....it's important that this sandwich be clean and get a really good bite. People tend to ignore or not understand how the whole sandwich works.

    2) Then sand the corners and edges of the pads so they float freely in the clutch gear hub.

    3). Lightly scuff both friction faces of the pads (and clutch faces) and clean them up to make a perfect sandwich.

    Reassemble. Adjust with the flower nut. It should perform like a champ. If it still slips after messing with the flower nut, OR it does not fully disengage yet grip is good (after adjusting flower nut) - then maybe you will need to find out why your clutch throw is not satisfactory. If you dial that it, and it's still not correct - adjust the countershaft gland nut as outlined above.
     
  19. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Well... I know a lot more about the HT clutch now. Pablos comment to skip the stanchion collar was good advice. Wish I had followed it. Had no effect on clutch slippage, could not start the engine no matter how many turns or what direction.. Two things actually solve the problem:

    1. Contrary to suggestions on this forum do NOT leave out the small spring in that clutch cable. With my spring back on I could at least start the bike.

    2. Flower nut determines how much the clutch pads "bite". Tightening that resulted in perfect engagement.

    Now I have a good understanding of relationship between flower nut, stanchion collar, and cable stop. Even though it was running fine I decided to trim, sand down, and clean the surface of those pads. A liittle wash in 90% isopropyl to be safe. The biggest problem with these seems to be "mushrooming" of the faces which prevents contact. I now see why they have to be free floating in that holder.

    PS adjusting the stanchion collar is NOT as easy as flower nut adjusting. You not only have to take off the carb but also remove the clutch cable and readjust when putting back on. 30 minutes vs 3 minutes.
     

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