Excalibur ‘09
- Thread starter Mr.B.
- Start date
Looking forward to watching your magic on this one,, ,,,,er,,ah,,,,I mean three.
Thanks everyone,
Truckd, this is a older chair with a rattan frame- So I’m not 100% sure about how to mount it?
Likely the chair will somehow be attached to a plywood “seat pan” that will bolted to the frame supports ( ? ) or perhaps just bolted on by it's self. New wicker will be weaved into chair and down around a foot pan similar to the pictured Indian...
Before I begin the front end I’ll thoroughly study the way the originals were constructed, I’m fortunate to live nearby the National Motorcycle Museum.
-Kirk
Truckd, this is a older chair with a rattan frame- So I’m not 100% sure about how to mount it?
Likely the chair will somehow be attached to a plywood “seat pan” that will bolted to the frame supports ( ? ) or perhaps just bolted on by it's self. New wicker will be weaved into chair and down around a foot pan similar to the pictured Indian...
Before I begin the front end I’ll thoroughly study the way the originals were constructed, I’m fortunate to live nearby the National Motorcycle Museum.
-Kirk
Here’s some quick thoughts on construction of the front axle, but again I would like to take a good look at a real McCoy first...
I’m on the lookout for some buggy seat leaf springs to mount between the chair & frame, not quite as neat looking as the S shaped originals, but pretty inexpensive and easily found at flea markets.
Besides since this isn’t a replica, so who’s to say it couldn’t of been...?
One more thing for sure, to the avoid some of the costly mistakes of previous projects I’m going to work out the frame geometry with paper & pencil first!
Also today I Ebay scored a New Departure Mattatuck heavy coaster brake, hopefully it’s in good shape and will replace the badly worn Schwinn tandem hub on Excalibur ‘09...
-Kirk
I’m on the lookout for some buggy seat leaf springs to mount between the chair & frame, not quite as neat looking as the S shaped originals, but pretty inexpensive and easily found at flea markets.
Besides since this isn’t a replica, so who’s to say it couldn’t of been...?
One more thing for sure, to the avoid some of the costly mistakes of previous projects I’m going to work out the frame geometry with paper & pencil first!
Also today I Ebay scored a New Departure Mattatuck heavy coaster brake, hopefully it’s in good shape and will replace the badly worn Schwinn tandem hub on Excalibur ‘09...
-Kirk
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Wal mart has a patio version of the wicker chair and it's material is a thick vinal with a steel construction, Home Depot & Lowes have a similar version with two different colors (Light & Dark) although the season's are changing they may not have them on the floor but then it might take a while to get your lay out and design perfected so it might work to your advantage should you decide to go that route.
I like the engineering spec's.
I like the engineering spec's.
That looks awesome,just make sure you get the stearing geomatery right so you don't wonder all over the road likew the early builds. Atomic Zombie has it in there book...............CurtHere’s some quick thoughts on construction of the front axle, but again I would like to take a good look at a real McCoy first...
I’m on the lookout for some buggy seat leaf springs to mount between the chair & frame, not quite as neat looking as the S shaped originals, but pretty inexpensive and easily found at flea markets.
Besides since this isn’t a replica, so who’s to say it couldn’t of been...?
One more thing for sure, to the avoid some of the costly mistakes of previous projects I’m going to work out the frame geometry with paper & pencil first!
Also today I Ebay scored a New Departure Mattatuck heavy coaster brake, hopefully it’s in good shape and will replace the badly worn Schwinn tandem hub on Excalibur ‘09...
-Kirk
This is what i was talking about prolly about page 10 on
http://www.hellbentcycles.com/trike_projects/Recumbent Trike Design Primer.pdf
http://www.hellbentcycles.com/trike_projects/Recumbent Trike Design Primer.pdf
Yes indeed, that’s good stuff Curt!
Thanks for the link.
Truckd, it’s the 13th here, Happy Birthday!
-Kirk
Thanks for the link.
Truckd, it’s the 13th here, Happy Birthday!
-Kirk
I still gotta Hour here on the low W. coast but Thanks! Mr.B. funny you still feel the same on the day of yer birthday until about six months later when yer feel'n it on a hard day (LOL!)
Thank God! He has given me another Yr
Thank God! He has given me another Yr
That link should be a sticky in the three wheel section. Thanks for sharing it.
SB
I think its in the Recumbent BarleyAwake did a recumbent. Keep in mind its for a recumbent specks. it states that the spindle tip back 12 degrees and the axel is set back on the king pin.Thats the same specks and the old slingshot dragsters of the 60's( helps the wheels to stay srieght,but slitly harder to stear.
Seeing how you are going to add more weight i would go with the specks of the old strieght axel cars and all the street rods have today.6 degrees tip back and the axel in the center of the spindle. This is something that they didn't do way back then. The old model T's had it. Take a look at a gokart axel they even have it......So now you won't wabble al over the road and will pickup speed. Can't waite to see your build.....Love it ........Curt
Seeing how you are going to add more weight i would go with the specks of the old strieght axel cars and all the street rods have today.6 degrees tip back and the axel in the center of the spindle. This is something that they didn't do way back then. The old model T's had it. Take a look at a gokart axel they even have it......So now you won't wabble al over the road and will pickup speed. Can't waite to see your build.....Love it ........Curt
Mr.B,
Just caught up with you posts and everyone elses. Be in drywall Hades for the past few days.
You have the start of an out of sight tricar/ forecar build. The chair is wonderful and should be reasonably easy to extend for the foot rest. I'm going to try and make the style of springs that Indian made by bending flat steel around a form in the proper shape.
I some what doubt that there will be much 'spring' to it but as long as it holds it's shape and holds the chair in place I will be willing to claim it as a success. If not I will use buggy seat springs and call it done. Mine's a look alike, sort of, not a hard copy.
If you would like to get a set of the axles and hubs that I got from England I'll post the contact information. The first set I have are well made from military grade aluminium with stainless steel 20mm axles. They have sealed bearing on both side. A machinist makes them and can adapt them if you want changes made. The ones I have and the set on it's way with the 2 axle sets have a disc brake set up on one side and are drilled for 12g spokes. He can make them with no brakes or single or dual disc brakes and I'm sure your spoke size.
These are supported on one side only like the go kart hubs and if you asked he may be able to make them with a 3/4" bearing to fit a go kart spindle. A 22mm axle is just slightly larger than 3/4".
The cost for the pair of hubs and axles was $138 U.S. plus shipping by 1st class mail. Having looked at different hubs and axles on the net that is very reasonable for what you get.
The machinist has been great to deal with as well.
Steve.
Just caught up with you posts and everyone elses. Be in drywall Hades for the past few days.
You have the start of an out of sight tricar/ forecar build. The chair is wonderful and should be reasonably easy to extend for the foot rest. I'm going to try and make the style of springs that Indian made by bending flat steel around a form in the proper shape.
I some what doubt that there will be much 'spring' to it but as long as it holds it's shape and holds the chair in place I will be willing to claim it as a success. If not I will use buggy seat springs and call it done. Mine's a look alike, sort of, not a hard copy.
If you would like to get a set of the axles and hubs that I got from England I'll post the contact information. The first set I have are well made from military grade aluminium with stainless steel 20mm axles. They have sealed bearing on both side. A machinist makes them and can adapt them if you want changes made. The ones I have and the set on it's way with the 2 axle sets have a disc brake set up on one side and are drilled for 12g spokes. He can make them with no brakes or single or dual disc brakes and I'm sure your spoke size.
These are supported on one side only like the go kart hubs and if you asked he may be able to make them with a 3/4" bearing to fit a go kart spindle. A 22mm axle is just slightly larger than 3/4".
The cost for the pair of hubs and axles was $138 U.S. plus shipping by 1st class mail. Having looked at different hubs and axles on the net that is very reasonable for what you get.
The machinist has been great to deal with as well.
Steve.
FE, can you send me his details? I don't know what I'm going to need, if anything, in future, but people used to one offs are worth knowing.
Ludwig,
PM sent.
I'll check with him before I post the email address I have to make sure it's the one he want's to use.
Steve
PM sent.
I'll check with him before I post the email address I have to make sure it's the one he want's to use.
Steve
Here is a connection for buggy seat springs. They have both 24" and 36" lengths. Scroll down until you see the springs and there are a lot of them but just 2 are seat springs.
Steve.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...jYGABw&usg=AFQjCNGRkOy0m63wnRDxL9sBdeiqZFYpVQ
Steve.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...jYGABw&usg=AFQjCNGRkOy0m63wnRDxL9sBdeiqZFYpVQ
Here is another company in Wisconson with springs.
Steve.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...-IGQCQ&usg=AFQjCNGnq9hdbmQrvRVIUz09HeQHQuxKtw
Steve.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...-IGQCQ&usg=AFQjCNGnq9hdbmQrvRVIUz09HeQHQuxKtw
Thanks for the links Steve!
I’ve been following your Indian build(s) and recall when you bought the hubs and axles.
I really like your idea about the do it yourself S springs and it made me think perhaps the front half could be actual leaf springs for a little bit of true function...
The eye (correct term?) could be a simple bolt on piece. With this no actual hard to do yourself or expensive to have made real springs would be needed.
I already some have auto springs I could cut up for this, or our local farm supply store sells leafs for small trailers that already have correctly small sized “eyes” on each end.
They're cheap too, like only $20-$25.
-Kirk
I’ve been following your Indian build(s) and recall when you bought the hubs and axles.
I really like your idea about the do it yourself S springs and it made me think perhaps the front half could be actual leaf springs for a little bit of true function...
The eye (correct term?) could be a simple bolt on piece. With this no actual hard to do yourself or expensive to have made real springs would be needed.
I already some have auto springs I could cut up for this, or our local farm supply store sells leafs for small trailers that already have correctly small sized “eyes” on each end.
They're cheap too, like only $20-$25.
-Kirk
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Kirk, that is my plan B. I saw some trailer springs at our version of Harbour Freight here in Canada. I was thinking that if you used one leaf for the bottom like you showed in your drawing it would curve down enough to catch the bottom of the foot rest and the eye that you cut off would work on the top part attached as you showed.
You would then be left with making the curved part at the top.
What my plan was and this may work to make just the curved part for the top, was to lay out the entire spring in one piece. I'm using MDF board stacked up to give me a height of 1-1/2" and I'll use cold rolled 1/4" by 1-14" flat steel.
In the body of the form there will be holes drilled so the top of adjustable bar clamps can drop into them to give a good purchase for the clamps when the steel is clamped against the form. This will be every 4" to 6" since I don't think the steel will bend easily.
Once it's clamped tight against the form the plan is to cold hammer the slightly warmed steel with a 2 pound hammer in order to cold set the steel to it's hopefully new shape. I've seen an old blacksmith/ millwright in my Dads saw mill do this and he called it cold smithing or cold setting the steel. The theory as I understood it was that the molecules in the steel were moved around to conform the new shape and as they moved they compressed and hardened to take the shape of the mould thus no tempering was needed since the steel was never heated to draw the temper out and the hammering had increased the temper by tightening up the metal.
Hope that makes sense and someone who has metal working experience speaks up to say this is good or bad. There would be two leaves to the spring since I'm sure one wouldn't work.
Of course they never let me say The Lords Prayer in Sunday School since I'm well known in some quarters for messing up the simplest things.
Steve.
You would then be left with making the curved part at the top.
What my plan was and this may work to make just the curved part for the top, was to lay out the entire spring in one piece. I'm using MDF board stacked up to give me a height of 1-1/2" and I'll use cold rolled 1/4" by 1-14" flat steel.
In the body of the form there will be holes drilled so the top of adjustable bar clamps can drop into them to give a good purchase for the clamps when the steel is clamped against the form. This will be every 4" to 6" since I don't think the steel will bend easily.
Once it's clamped tight against the form the plan is to cold hammer the slightly warmed steel with a 2 pound hammer in order to cold set the steel to it's hopefully new shape. I've seen an old blacksmith/ millwright in my Dads saw mill do this and he called it cold smithing or cold setting the steel. The theory as I understood it was that the molecules in the steel were moved around to conform the new shape and as they moved they compressed and hardened to take the shape of the mould thus no tempering was needed since the steel was never heated to draw the temper out and the hammering had increased the temper by tightening up the metal.
Hope that makes sense and someone who has metal working experience speaks up to say this is good or bad. There would be two leaves to the spring since I'm sure one wouldn't work.
Of course they never let me say The Lords Prayer in Sunday School since I'm well known in some quarters for messing up the simplest things.
Steve.
I am liking this!
I see the attached as a likely layout of the leafs. Perhaps plug welds would be needed to help give the upper section some extra strength?
-Kirk
I see the attached as a likely layout of the leafs. Perhaps plug welds would be needed to help give the upper section some extra strength?
-Kirk
