Don't remove the governor!

Discussion in '4 Stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits' started by Rocketbiker, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. Rocketbiker

    Rocketbiker New Member

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    I have been doing a lot of reading in this forum about guys that have taken out the governor in a 79 cc HF or Predator motor. Then they post asking for help wondering why it will not start now or is idling horribly. Just leave the governor alone and enjoy your ride.sounds to me from what I have been reading it is not worth the hassle.
     
  2. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the Forum Rocket,
    Removing the governor is no big deal but does require attention to details like getting the timing marks aligned, and getting the rest of the valve train assembled correctly. But when doing so, without using stronger valve springs the high end hp will not be there because the valves will float. 18lb springs are recommended. This is just an example of what can be done.
    https://affordablegokarts.com/colle...roducts/modified-79cc-predator-engine-stage-2
    A GC160cc will hugely up your torque at considerably less cost if you have a frame to fit it.
    Tom
     
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  3. Tony01

    Tony01 Well-Known Member

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    Not enough. Governor removal on Predator motors is perfectly safe thanks to weak stock valve springs.
     
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  4. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    I don't have his name to recall but owner of AGK told me not to worry about flywheel failure as they fail rarely.
    Tom
     
  5. waynesdata

    waynesdata Active Member

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    a good many people have posted 40 45mph if I am in that range the governor stays in because I ride at 28mph
     
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  6. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Well-Known Member

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    You are ok with you 79cc and gov. Removed.Lots of motor parts are going to break before the flywheel explodes.. as mentioned. Once you start replace stock inners then you should start leaning towards a billet flywheel. I built my 212 motor up ,revs to the moon but I didn’t do it for 40 to 45mph. I did it to get way from cars and cross intersection quickly.
     
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  7. Styxxx

    Styxxx New Member

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    Hey guys I've got a question, I recently purchased a monster 90 (79cc) with a macari chopper style frame off of craigslist, from this kid, he told me, he couldn't finish, the build because, he didn't have the time, he had to move up a little ways north, because of work reasons, something like that, anyway
    The motor was basically brand new, to me it looked like he had tried, or had started the motor, only o few [email protected] most,
    Well when I find Nally got to t together, because he had a couple things, like the transmission, and a few minor things installed, up-side down, or even hackwards, anyways, as it stands right now, the motor will fire up,( only after a really hard/cold start), but when I finally get it to start, after, at least 7,8-maby 10 minutes, of pulling pullstarter,and starter fluid, anyway when I finally Nally get it started, and warmed up it will idle on its own, but when I give it gas there really no power, to speak of, sometimes(or mostly there's a little Power, barley moving, after a minute or so of coaxing it it would start to make me approximately 4/5-maby7 mph,, after I ride it a few blocks, I staop, kill motor from r a minute, then I would hear this air hissing sound, not really loud, but I can hear it, non-the less, so I tracked down the source,
    I noticed there, was a pretty good amount, of oil, leaking, from the top of the motor, between the oil, and the air leaking out, coming from the motor, anyway the source, was the air handler SS ng sound, and I leaking oil, I found out, was coming from the governor mount/post, i watched several videos from "youtube" and Basiclly, they said, that leaking oil from he governor hole/post, was normal, or brand new 79cc preditor motors, that after break-in, the oil would stop leaking, , basically it would eventually, seal it's self,
    Before I never really heard/noticed any air, leaking from there,
    When I first got it together, it would really start, or I should say it would either not start, or something'f it would start, it would start, then die imediatly afterwards, so a friend was looking at it for me, and we was watching more. VIdeos, we noticed, there was play, and the gov arm wasn't fully engauging, also checked the carb jets, and the jet undrneth idle screw(p/15)carb
    Was clogged, so I cleaned all the jets, then put everything back together, it actually started right up, it seamed to have a little Power, but was still slow, to build speed, right from start-up, but once it got moving it would move pretty good, I rode with it approximately 3-4 miles, turned it off, and the next morning, tried to start it, and I couldn't get it started, then I remembered I needed to put a fuel filter on it, so I cleaned the jets again, and put filter on,
    With some coaxing, it started, but this time after start-up, when I try to take it off, there basically was no power, even after coaxing some speed out of it(2-3-maby 5 miles per hour,there was either no power, or it would die, I could get it to idle on its own, but on the take off, it would die, or it would have no power, that's when I heard/noticed, the air hissing sound after turning off the motor, also not really excessive, but deffinetly really noticeable,
    Could somebody "HELP", Me, with some ideas, or suggestions, why this motor, is doing this????also info on how to fix this problem, I would be greatly appreciate, any, and/or all ideas or suggestions, on why, and a way to fix this problem
     
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  8. waynesdata

    waynesdata Active Member

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    Looking around the forum governor removal is a real problem for many. All of the people saying governor removal is no real issue are also very advanced builders. The youtube videos, Necromancer, and affordablegokarts do not cover reassembly in any real detail. A better governor removal guide could solve many problems.
     
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  9. Tony01

    Tony01 Well-Known Member

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    Rather than trying to help mechanically challenged people, it is better to point them in the direction of those who can build it for them; or perhaps, to consider buying a manufactured product. Some people shouldn’t work on their own stuff.
     
  10. Greg58

    Greg58 Well-Known Member

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    I've always suggested that you bolt any engine that is complete to a bench and start it up before you do anything to it, that way you'll know it runs, then if after you take it apart it doesn't run you know you did something wrong.
     
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  11. Tony01

    Tony01 Well-Known Member

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    Getting the governor to work just how you want on an engine that has already been messed with, is more difficult than removing it IMO. Check that the timing key on your flywheel is intact. Magnet should be around 25deg past the coil at TDC. Also check for air leaks in your intake.

    I have never run a predator engine before completing the build. I am a firm believer in not running it until it is ready to be broken in. I have never run a predator engine at the stock angle (always vertical cyl), I have never run it on the bench, and I have never run one with the governor in it.

    The hardest part about governor removal is getting that damn circlip out of the governor gear shaft groove. 2nd hardest is removing the washer under the gear (hydrolocked to the bottom of the shaft/case). Took me 1.5 hours to prep my first one. Seal the holes with close fitting, wide base circle screws and nuts, copper or aluminum washers, and red loctite.
     
  12. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    Wayne, Tony and Greg have all made valid points but Tony cuts to the bone.
    Styxxx, you need to consult a local small engine mechanic.
    Tom
     
  13. motorhedfred

    motorhedfred Member

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    I think we should all chip in with some periods too. I only saw one in that whole post but 119 commas. Here ya go Styxxx.
    ......................................................................

    I have more if you need them.
     
  14. xXNightRiderXx

    xXNightRiderXx Active Member

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    Hard starting can be a surprising number of things, but usually (there are some exceptions, especially with 2-strokes) related to the coil, fuel/air, or exhaust. If your exhaust is too restrictive, an excess of exhaust gasses can hinder the ignition of the fuel, though this doesn't normally happen until after the engine has run for a few cycles. Check your air intake and jet size. If too much air for the amount of fuel is entering the cylinder, the motor will not start, or will act hesitant. If too much fuel is in there, it will act hesitant before ceasing any response at all. These of course are extremes.

    Try starting it with and without the choke. It should start a little slow with the choke on, and speed up a little bit when you take it off. If it only starts without the choke, you have too much fuel. If it starts only with the choke, you don't have enough.

    Finally, check your spark! If that spark plug is fouled, you will not get consistent ignition. If your coil is bad, you will not get consistent ignition. This is because both these things make your spark weak, and it might not even jump the gap.

    If you have air leaking from your crankcase (that large bit that you put your oil in), that usually means you have excess air pressure inside your case, and you need to give it a place to go. If you have not changed out that valve cover yet, then check the breather valve and hose. Use a length of heater or broken garden hose to test the breather valve. When you blow air into the valve from the inside of the cover, you should feel that air coming out of the breather hose. If you don't, you have a problem.

    The buildup of air pressure inside the crankcase will actually press against the piston, which saps energy from the combustion and intake cycle. It will be harder to start, and your power will suffer. The oil inside the case compounds this issue by reducing the air volume, and by being an incompressible fluid.
     

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