Cheap and Easy Drive Roller

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cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Maybe the last chapter in the C&E drive roller. My wife was throwing away a 1" thick oak cutting board. Perfect material to experiment with. I had used oak before but the torque the Lifans produce would break the roller loose under high load hill climbing. Cut out a 2.1" to try. Produced a really nice smooth driving roller, but still would slip on steep hills. So I began to increase down pressure, way higher than the rubber rollers required. finally I hit a point that would hold the engines torque. It requires a LOT of down force, right to the point that the lift clutch is getting pretty hard to pull, but still useable in frequent clutching situations like traffic. So after running the 2.1 for quite a few miles, a hundred or more, the conclusion is the Easy Oak Roller is the way to go. At this point shows about zero wear, yet it sees a lot of dirt and gravel riding. I cut out a whole range of rollers, that are easy to fit in the bikes bag and change out in less than a minute. They run from 1.6 to 2.4 with the every day rollers being either 1.9 or 2.1. These give a range of speed from 19 to 28mph on the governed Mongoose to 26 to 39 mph on the ungoverned Schwinn. With the 1.6 the bike would probably climb the face of Mt. Rushmore it has so much pull ability. On lesser powerful FDs the downforce could be less I am sure. The thinner roller in the pics is a fir roller cut from a 2x4. They make a good proof of concept roller, and never failed with 2.5hp. Would probably be just fine on a lower HP engine with narrower tires.
 

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deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
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When I tried a chunk of a dowel I had laying around the shop, a few years back everyone got a laugh. The idea of a wood roller was so retro, but It worked really well till it shattered. It shattered because I did not have a drill press, so it wasn't plumb. I'm rally glad to see that you can use wood as a roller. I bet the oak is going to be better than steel it will be harder than the rubber, but still have some texture naturally I would think.
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
I does seem to have good wear qualities. After a good # of miles it becomes polished and shiny. Interestingly, I finish sand em on the motor with a ribbon of 50 grit sanding belt while the engine is running at fast idle, works like a charm. I havent tried a wet run yet, probably wont go very well, but it wont slip dry. If you use your Lifan, this is the way to go.
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
We had a pretty heavy rain last night leaving the road wet with some standing water. A perfect time to see of the oak roller would drive at all. It did amazinly well. There was slippage for sure, but it climbed the few hills I rode up easily if the throttle was handled carefully. Practically speaking it would be ridable in the rain with careful throttle management, with some assist on the mega hills, no problem on the lesser hills and flats. I wouldnt have believed it, its all in the down pressure I guess. Used to slip like crazy in the damp.
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
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Since you figured out how to make them with simple tools, I would most likely use it if and when I go back to the big motor. If they ever let me drive to test it, I have a stabilizer bike ready to test that I have some hope for. I can change the distance from the bike's rear wheel to the stabilizer's rear wheel so I could probably mount the ifan on the stabilizer which would make the bike even more stable. it would be a two wheel push trailer but with the push being on the bikes rear wheel. It really does sound like an interesting bike.
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Yeah it really does! Hope you get to do it. You can limit speed with roller size, maybe you can use that as a selling point, plus the added weight is more stable than the small motor on the front. Honest Dear!
 

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
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north carolina
I'm going with the it can't possibly turn over with all that weight on the stabilizer. lol It would be a lot easier if I could remember it being operator error so I could say I will never do that again obviously. Problem is I already told them I remember nothing except thinking I should drop the motor. Then it nothing till the ambulance. Even then i was back out in a second after I answered his question. Same in the er.
 
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happycheapskate

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Nov 26, 2009
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Rockwall TX
I don't know what this "stabilizer" is, but I'm interested in the rollers made of 2x4 and boards. What machine are you running these on? Do they have set screws, pins, or keys?
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
3,682
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Colonial Coast USA.
The oak is pretty hard as it is. The 2x4 roller is common fir and works well with the compression method. The drive roller on the Schwinn is a 2x4 unit. If you have the hole saws and an old piece of 2x4, just cut one and see how it works. The boat places used to sell a very thin epoxy used for strengthening dry rotted wood. Maybe 30min epoxy diluted with alcohol might work, when thinned the set time is extended considerably which should allow it to soak in. You will have a .5" thickness of roller which is a good bit with oak. I you can find the narrow band style hose clamps and get one on each side I just dont think the oak will have a problem.

Now I off to make a Shelayey!
 

happycheapskate

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Nov 26, 2009
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Cannonball, how do yours stay in place? Do they use set screws or keys? I'll save a couple of 2x4 and make one when I can. I will ask friends if anyone has a hole saw already. I will make one that uses 4 screws and nuts, countersunk into the wood. I think the hose clamps would probably hold well enough, but might be subject to vibration or might cause it due to imbalance. I don't have a lot of tools, but think I could make a couple and get one that was balanced well enough. I figure I could sand it by stapling some sandpaper to a board and pressing it against the roller while the engine turns it (i'll stay out of the way in case it "kicks" it out!) If it's balanced ok I think it should work, especially since it will be lighter than the metal ones.
 
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cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Mine are driven by being compressed. The crank bolt tightens them against a 3/8" rubber washer, all of it is sandwiched between two large steel washers. Doesnt take a great deal of compression in this manner to positively drive the roller. There are no sets or keys.
 

happycheapskate

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Nov 26, 2009
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I have a design to beat all for friction drive lovers. Starting a new thread for anyone who wants to build one and report back!

This will probably sound crazy but I expect it would work very well, and eliminate a lot of guess work, and OWN all the hills.

5-9 speed derailleur shifted roller drive with " 1 inch " roller, any grit you want.

Imagine a Dax type engine channel, but about 2x as long, with the drive roller about the center, or closer to the bike seat tube. The motor will be at the end, and angled so it is about 1 inch to 1 foot above the wheel centerline. This will much lower the center of gravity and make parking easier.

Now the dax type engine and shaft will drive a fixed, toothed cog, which pulls a chain going around a 7 speed generic bicycle hub with 7 speed (or 8 or 9, yes, 9 speed freewheels exist! ) freewheel , and using the non-laced hub as a drive roller! (epoxy and sand, or other surfacing will provide the friction for propulsion). Now with an 11-23, 12-26, or even 14-34 tooth (common sizes) freewheel, you could have a HUGE speed range including both massive underdrive and as much overdrive as your engine can handle!

For the drive channel, instead of very expensive extrusion, I would suggest welding a lighter thickness of steel plates (3 long pieces for example) together to make the "U", and bracing the sides together with long bolts and tubular spacers (like the engines sit on for clutch spacing). This should be very strong and not too heavy, esp since any flex will be taken up by the chain, and shorter "straps" for the QR skewer side will equate more strength/flex resistance. Let me know what you think in my new thread here: http://motorbicycling.com/f36/insane-7-speed-friction-roller-drive-34710.html#post337232

xct2

That is a point to ponder, how to shift it with out getting extreme on the engineering. Maybe a slotted engine mount with a heavy spring to hold it in "hi". A shift lever to pull it down to "low". Probably mounted to the top tube with a gate. Once you get rolling good shift to hi and the spring pulls the engine/hi roller over to engage the tire. You would still need the lift clutch to do so. UNLESS the roller is a cone, which is a vari drive and would shift with out having to lift it. A shifter with a good friction lock would offer infinate positions.
 
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corgi1

New Member
Aug 13, 2009
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OK, Im back on line after a lightning hit took out the computers. Thoughts on the oak roller. Doesnt work well for a big bore high torque engine. Drives beautifully until I encounter a pretty good hill. Begins to slip as the power to climb the hill is applied. The rubber roller never does this. So for my applications Im staying with the rubber roller. IF a person lived in the flats or nearly so, or they have an engine of limited power that cant break the roller loose, I cant think of a better roller. Cheap and easy to make, and should last forever. Im disappointed because of the ease of ratio change they offered, they slide right off the shaft for a quick change out. Im going to Tractor Supply to buy a 6x4' horse stall mat. Should be a life time supply. Be happy to sell the raw mat or cut rollers(if I have the saw size) for a very reasonable price if anyone needs any.
I noticed the tire wear seemed very little in the 500 mile(I think)pic,if this rubber doesn't wear the tire thats a plus,,,I am early in this thread so sorry if I coipyed another that has kept up w/the reading
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
I dont know how far in the thread you have read so heres an update. The second batch of rubber rollers were a different material(unknown to me at the time) and were terrible. I went back to experimenting with the oak roller and discovered them to be excellent drivers if the down force is quite high. They even drive in the wet if handled carefully. By that I mean the will get you through/home in a summer shower say. If its gonna rain I aint ridin an MB, no matter how it is driven. Here is a pic of the tire now. It has a known 1200+mi on it. My speedo reset when the battery failed, so these are the actual recorded miles, I believe it has a 100+ more. Its just about worn out now, but everytime I go to ride it, it looks like it has one more run in it. Figure I will run it til some cord shows. On this type of bike the tire is really the main item of maintence, sure the bike and engine are recieving some wear, but it is minor.
 

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corgi1

New Member
Aug 13, 2009
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I asked on another thread if anyone made groves around the roller rather than accross it,,in standard transmissions the brass syncronizers have these groves to cause grip against a (oil) slick smooth steel surface surface,just thinking out loud
 

happycheapskate

New Member
Nov 26, 2009
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Rockwall TX
I think it could work if they aren't too narrow. Otherwise they might slice the tire up. I think one reason why rollers slip in water (besides the obvious that steel gets slick when wet) is that they don't have any design to clear water, except perhaps the tread of the tire.
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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Rain Grooves in the roller is a great idea! Might hafta try that on my big 3.5" steel knurled roller. The knurls have worn some in 600 miles and aren't too deep, and it does slip a little when wet.
Another idea night be a perferated hollow roller, peppered with 1/8" holes close together. Water evac and permanant fricton texture for the life of the roller. Gonna try that on my big ol roller too.