Cheap and Easy Drive Roller

[cannonball2]

I just use a common hole saw in my drill press with a 1/4" center drill. I then cut the crank center with a 5/8 blade type wood bit. Its point centers perfectly in the 1/4 center hole. The rollers are perfectly centered, or as close a wood work can be. The drill press keeps thing perpendicular. It might be tricky doing it by hand.

 

[happycheapskate]

Thanks for the info. I don't have a drill press, so I guess I will just have to eyeball it and make a couple till I get a good one. At least the material is cheap.

The Nutech tires do not seem to like the 1' steel roller! Even with "90psi" simulated tires, it just does not have a lot to grab. The nifty off-road pattern with a narrow center band is great for pedaling, but has already seen some wear and cupping from the roller. My wife thinks pneumatic tires are "too complicated" like the Tanaka 33 is "too complicated", so whatever she needs to just ride it, I don't care. I guess we will see if they survive the torture test. Maybe after the chevrons wear down, the tire will have a big flat area for the conveyor roller. (hope so, those dang tires were $$$)

 

[happycheapskate]

26" (mtn bike size) and 700c wheelchair tires, Kenda Court tires. 1" wide, "non marking" compound, probably pretty hard.

http://www.sportaid.com/images/P/kenda_med-03.jpg

For those who want a slick tread and narrow, puncture resistant tire, these are $45 a pair ( 22.50 each x 2, not so bad)

110PSI rated Kenda Court Tires 24", 25", 26", 700c x 1" (23-540, 559, 590, 622) Iron Cap 110psi on Sale with 120% Low Price Guarantee

 

[cannonball2]

They used to make a drill guide that the drill was mounted in that held it in a given angle. They worked ok. Dont know if they are still made. Cost about $10. Would be great for making rollers. Maybe check ebay.

 

[cannonball2]

Heres an example of the above mentioned guide. Great to keep the roller true.There are other types that are more elaborate.Poratlign Tool Co. presicion 3/8 Drill Guide Excellent Condition | eBay

 

[happycheapskate]

That looks pretty useful. If I understand, the drill chucks onto that bearing in the center and the bit goes in the bottom. Cool.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Latest in the roller saga. Another prototype Being in a drought the first half of the year coinsided with my getting into the FD thing. Now that the heavens have opened, I can see the short commings inherent to the design. The rubber rollers drive marginally when wet. If you avoid high throttle you can still ease along, hills complicate matters even more. I have heard the knurled steel rollers will drive in the rain. I have a bike with one and am going to give it a try. Still I like the ability to make my own from whats around. Now I am searching for a "rain roller". Just whipped this up and and waiting for a brewing thunderstorm to the north to hopefully give it a try. This is a roller cut from a common fir 2x4. I have contact cemented a section of sanding belt to it. Just got back from a long round about with big hills. Worked great and stayed together. The tire on the Mongoose is now just shy of 1kmi, and nearing the end, so didnt mind experimenting on it. Looks like the roller might be working it some. Intentions are to have alternate rollers. To run the rubber roller as they work so well and are easy on the tire. To have the other roller if I get stuck out and a rain comes up. I dont intentionally ride in the rain, but some times I am miles from home and need to get there. If this works have plans for a more weather proof version.

Say maybe you can make this to be changeable in the field, if not on the fly!

I have an idea that I would like to see if I can do like I saw a wagon that was powered by a vertical shaft 7 hp four stroke engine. I think the art vehicle though had the look of a Radio Flyer, but it was larger than what that company produces. It was probably all home made. I would like to see if I could make an adaption with friction drive, but get both back wheels powered on my Radio Flyer All terrain Wagon with its inflatable knobby tires. Also I would like to have the adaption be able to be removed without modifying the original wagon much in any way. Slap the motor on and use it and remove it when you like.

Measure Twice

 

[cannonball2]

How do you plan to steer it, with the usual tongue? Unless you turn the wagon around and steer from the rear you are gonna be directly in front. Might be a bad deal if you fell! Nix all that if you are going to ride in it. The simpliest way would be a form of push trailer that would quickly attatch to the rear axle. A simple chain drive would be the thing to use. Requires a horizontal shaft engine though. Are you trying to make a power wagon for utility work or something to ride in?

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Cannon Ball 2

I have the intention of making a slow geared down wagon that is powerful. The art vehicle I saw at Burning Man 2011 had the steering awkwardly I can say just like a little kid steering from within the wagon. The wagon was as I said was way scaled up in size.

Nothing that big did I see in the markets as toys. Since it is restricted from 5 mph an under at the event, the rough roads at some points probably had no trouble with enough torque.

You’re not going fast so the steering worked. If the idea was to go fast, it would be crazy. Two adults and about 7ea 10lb bags of ice I saw it carrying without any much tug on the engine.

The knobby tires I am not sure lend itself too well to the use of friction drive. I looked at a few of the posts pictures and I suspect there no knobby tires using friction drive. Less surface area would be a problem.

I suppose a few more friction rollers 2 or 3 in series pressing on the tire might be able to make up the difference. Even with that so, it might eventually be more work than just devising a direct drive that could be installed and removed.

They used just as I thought from the vertical shaft lawn mower engine use a belt with a half twist and two pulleys. A gear box as well doing max gearing down underneath attached before making the live axle turn.

I like the idea of modular build, so that things can be changed when you like.
Anyway I’m already working on my off road motor bike that I shall make modular to receive a covering to be an art vehicle, and it should be off in the future if I go at some kind of project that I would like to have additionly.

I did get interested in the friction drive as I see potential for modular design. Many years ago as kids we took apart a Marx-a-cart kid toy electric vehicle and used the electric motor attached to a bicycle using friction drive. A car battery gave much extended time running the thing.

The pusher things you talked about I'll look at that idea too, it obviously could be made easy to add and remove.

Measure Twice

 

[happycheapskate]

The tire seems to be the biggest factor in gaining wet traction. I had a 700c tire with a center band all around, that worked poorly wet. I switched to a CST Corporal. It has small blocks, that interlock as the tire compresses, like an automobile tire. It works great at 50psi (minimum listed pressure) with a lot of roller compression. At 70psi it works dry with little resistance.

There is a 26" mtn bike version for $20.

I have given up on the wooden rollers and the 2 piece roller for now. I don't have the tools to mess with it. I'll be glad to hear if someone makes a wood roller work in the rain though.

For the 1 sided drive kits/motors, I think some type of thread-on device would work best.

 

[cannonball2]

Im solidly(haha) into the oak rollers now. They are performing great. They work well on a larger engine or jackshaft that can run a larger roller. The Schwinn with the 99cc Preadator has the best tire so far I have found for FD, the Thick Brick. It runs a 2.5" roller. The tire allows a lot of deflection and roller grip. The oak rollers dont work well on a small engine with rollers less than 1.75". It would be fairly simple to take a piece of steel or aluminum bar stock, center drill it and thread it to fit on a WE engine type FD. The direction of travel keeps it tight. Smooth rollers seem to drive as well as any, more surface contact. Ive had knurled, and they basically round the drive points pretty fast. Each application is a little different and requires experimentation to optimize it. Wet weather FD is sketchy at best unless using a tire eating heavy grit roller. I have other vehicles for rain.

 

[happycheapskate]

Thanks for the details. I avoid riding in the rain, so the Fiction Drive was the most economical and fun choice for me.

 

[happycheapskate]

I tried cutting plastic cutting board with a hole saw (2.5"). Use a drill press for safety! The hole saw likes to either grab full force (drill rotation=arm pain) or melt the plastic.

I am thinking the white plastic cutting boards at Walmart would work if its not too slick, its certainly tough enough. Grooves could easliy be cut into a roller made from it to improve traction. On non compressible materials, if the clutch collar had a keyway and the outer washer was brazed to it then it would be a positive driver. A pin of sorts through the washer would positively drive the roller. Keying the roller itself may split certain materials under load. The rubber is the simplest to make and so far is holding up great. I have no idea how hard the rubber I am using is, its probably soft being a cushion for horses. On ebay the sheet sellers list the durometer hardness of the rubber, so you can choose the hardness. I think I will make an oak roller just to experiment with, seems the development of the bike itself is finialized. Think I will just run it under compression. However I am pertty positive it would drive if bonded to the outer washer with silicone adhesive.

 

[cannonball2]

I agree! This is true in a lot of materials. I hole sawed a metal trash can last week to make an outside burner, all I can saw is hold on tight! Trick with the cutting boards is a slow saw speed.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

I use cutting fluid always when drilling metal. I don't know if it would be of use on the nylon plastic stuff though. I did see at Tap Plastics they sell drill bits that are of a different angle that are supposed to be used for drilling plastic. Is this hype, I'm not sure, but since the hole saw was what you were using, I don't know if at Tap Plastic in their shop do they have those of the plastic variety or just use a computerized mill.

Can't have too many c-clamps, use them not your hands, much safer!

MT

 

[happycheapskate]

I had the plastic board clamped down. The drill is an 850 RPM Skil, like you might use for drilling house frames for electrical routing. Standard drill bits (not hole saw though) seem to work just fine on plastic, but you might have to back them out a few times to clear the bit.

 

[cannonball2]

The blade type bits work well in that type of plastic if your are drilling holes and not trying to save a disc from the cut.

 

[flmotorbikes]

Thats a good idea but I dont think the rollers will last

 

[happycheapskate]

I think it's odd the bike kit makers haven't gotten someone to mold them a bunch of grit-impregnated plastic roller wheels. Something like a wide skateboard wheel with the correct center hole and brass or steel nuts and set screws. They could be made quickly and cheaply and aren't hard to replace. Skateboard wheels hold up to concrete at high RPM and don't burn down or shatter. A bike tire should be a piece of cake for it.

 

[cannonball2]

HCS, Im kind unclear, are you making cutting plastic cutting board rollers? I have used that stuff for just about everything and its plenty tough. Only problem I have seen is the varying material differences. I had one board that was a solid 3/4", it was almost indestructable. The next one I bought looked like the same board, but was a fractional piece that was folded over and bonded, basically hollow to an extent in the middle and worthless for projects. Cant really tell em apart til you cut it. If you can get good grip from this stuff should last a good while if it doesnt slip and get too hot. I am all oak now and have been for a while-great rollers!
Why dont you knock the bearings out of a skate board wheel, center it in some way and clamp it in the method used in this thread to the shaft? Easy enough.