Brand New Honda GX35 Won't even turn over?

[Fonzz]

Hi there anybody that may have some advice for this dilemma...

I have a new / unused Honda GX35, got it from the small engine warehouse.

I just finished mounting it to a friction drive and got everything else hooked up, ready to test it out. I put in the oil and gas, primed it, put the choke on and went to pull the pull start. I could not pull the rope at all. I know that motor is easy to start, so I know not to force it. The clutch assembly is not stuck in the friction drive bell, it spins freely, so I don't see how that could be the problem. When I say I can't pull the rope at all, I mean it's like the motor is seized, no movement of the piston at all.
Again, new motor, never started before. Ideas?

Yesterday my GF was puzzled as to why I didn't seem too excited knowing that I'd received all my parts and would start working on it today. I know better, nothing like this ever seems to go without something going wrong in the beginning, that's why I was not exactly looking forward to the install...
sigh...

Fingers crossed...

 

[Bikeguy Joe]

Not too familiar with this engine, but can you easily remove the pull start cover, to see if that's bound up somehow? While you have it off, see if the engine will turn.

Also, pull the plug to make sure it isn't hydro-locked (think that's the word) from shipping....cylinder may be full of oil.

 

[Fonzz]

Hi Bikeguy Joe,

After posting last night, I googled around and tried the spark plug removal, that did nada. Too bad, that would have been the easiest fix for sure!
I just now finished taking off the pull start and it works just fine when it's not connected to the motor. Couldn't get the motor to spin without it in place and the spark plug removed. Although what's there for me to try and spin looks fragile and I have nothing to safely apply spinning force to it.
I saw an old post (not here) from someone claiming to have a loose washer stuck in the cooling fins (spinning ones I think?) I sort of had a look into that area when the pull start was off, it helps hold the gas tank in place and when that is pulled out, I think I see what may be a spinning set of fins? I don't see anything strong behind the pull start to attach a wrench or something and I sure don't want to put more that a little pressure on what I think may be the spinning cooling fins...
I'm gonna remove the motor from the mount to have a look in there. Maybe I can spin the motor with a socket from there.
I'm already thinking I may have to take it to a warranty center or maybe I should contact smallenginewarehouse about an exchange?

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

The 4 bolts that attach your friction drive are too long and are hitting the flywheel.

 

[Fonzz]

The 4 bolts that attach your friction drive are too long and are hitting the flywheel.

Hi, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I followed the instruction video on the Dax website, inserting four threaded studs around the clutch area until they hit bottom as instructed. I did tighten them pretty good before I removed the two nuts I installed tightly together to give something to wrench with if you know what I'm describing (probably do).
Are you saying that I should not have put the studs in all the way like the video shows? (the video did use a different four stroke motor)
When I spoke with Duane at Dax while ordering on the phone, I told him I was going to use the Honda and there was no mention of not putting the studs in all the way.
Well, anyway, I'll have the motor off in a couple hours or less, gotta do some other chores first.
Really appreciate the replies and advice

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Hi, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I followed the instruction video on the Dax website, inserting four threaded studs around the clutch area until they hit bottom as instructed. I did tighten them pretty good before I removed the two nuts I installed tightly together to give something to wrench with if you know what I'm describing (probably do).

The bolts are a bit too long, maybe an 1/8"?
Put a washer or two under the bolt heads or cut them down.

 

[Fonzz]

The bolts are a bit too long, maybe an 1/8"?
Put a washer or two under the bolt heads or cut them down.

You nailed it. I just got the motor unmounted and backed off all of the studs about 1/8". Tried gently pulling the rope and it's now spinning.
Thank You very much. I just gotta put it back on now and I should be okay I think.
I was doing exactly what this Dax instructional video said to do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2fVx0wDs87I

and I am using studs, not bolts that came with the Dax friction drive kit instead of bolts, like in the video. That's supposed to be a safer way to mount, to protect against the possibility of stripping a bolt in the motor.

Thanks Again!

 

[killercanuck]

MBR to the rescue!

Have fun tearing around!

 

[Fonzz]

Took it out for a test run today, just a couple of miles. Made some slight handlebar component adjustments shortly thereafter. I works as expected, all is good.

Can I lay the bike on it's side in the back of my truck (with shell) without any problems of oil going where it doesn't belong?
If so, which side should I lay it on, to the left with the motor hopefully keeping it slightly less than 45 degrees or to the right with the motor above the bike (and the gas tank lid more upright than it would be when laid on the left side)

I'll get some pics of the set-up and post 'em here soon.

MBR to the rescue 4 sure!

 

[killercanuck]

I remember most jetski's have a sign upside down on the hull, for which way you're supposed to roll them back over when you roll it. But I don't know if there's a 'safe' side to lay your bike down on. You might be safer just strapping her upright, if you can.

 

[Ibedayank]

Fonz
you can always just drain the oil out if you need to haul the motorized bicycle somewhere its only about 1/3 or less of a quart to completely change the oil on these little motors]
you did use loctite when you installed the studs right?

 

[Fonzz]

Ibedayank,
That's a good point, I had not thought of that. I'd like to measure how much goes in when level so I can measure it out in advance and pour it in with the opening a little more upright.
Edit: Yes, I did use loctite on the studs and a couple other spots too.

killercanuck,
Now I wish I wouldn't have sold my hitch mount after the kids grew up thinking I'd never need it, it was easier to just put one bike in the truck bed. Gotta lay it down that way though with the shell that never comes off...

 

[Fonzz]

Took the bike out for another short test ride today, 2.4 miles. Once the motor became fully warmed up, about 1 mile in, under full throttle, it cut out on me and stalled. I stopped to do a quick visual, have no idea what's going on, it starts right back up for me and off I go. Then, I notice it will happen again if I go wot for a bit. Now that I'm waiting/listening for the power loss, if I roll off the throttle before it completely cuts out, it won't stall and I can give it a bit more input shortly thereafter. The next couple times it happens, I am able to reach back while still coasting and start it no problem on the first pull...
When I got back to my place and park in the garage, I can smell something weird, but I think it's just the new engine smell?
The motor seems hot too, too hot to keep my hand on the top of the plastic cover for more than a few seconds. < I don't know what temps are normal cause this is new to me.
It seems like it's starving for fuel when it cuts out?
Gas is new, 93 octane, with over half a tank left.
When it first happened, I wondered if the kill switch had been accidentally touched.
No sign of this behavior on yesterdays similar test ride.
Temps here today are only mid 70's. Here in Fresno it tops 100 often in the summer.
I suppose I can take it out for another ride once it cools off to see if the same things happens after the same amount of time (heat related?)
Top speed was on the low side of what I expected, 26-27 MPH (1.25 roller with 26" wheels, rider weight 180 lbs) as seen on my bike's speedometer and phone's gps (both handle bar mounted).
Also on a side note, I'm getting a metallic rattling sound when I let off the throttle, is this normal for a friction drive? I was expecting to only hear engine sounds with this set-up...
Any ideas as to what may be causing this??
I'll appreciate any tips you may have for me!

 

[Fonzz]

Good news? I took it out for an extended test run after it cooled off. A total of 10 miles with a little break after the first mile to snap some pics and then 9 continuous miles without any problems like I experienced earlier today, what the heck!? I kept it at a cruising speed around 23 to 25 MPH in half mile stretches, only at the turns did I have to let off the throttle & slow down. Some full throttle time was had too, top speed today with the wind at my back was 30MPH. It seems to run best at slightly less than full throttle. When I increase the throttle past that to max, I immediately hear it "grunting" harder but the response at that point makes it seem out of tune or something at those RPM's is one way to describe it. On another level, it almost seems like it's going to do exactly what it did earlier, cut out on me, but it just seems that way and it doesn't happen, just keeps on going.
Really noticed how the wind affects my speeds with this little motor, not complaining one bit, just an observation that I won't always get an accurate assessment of how strong the motor is at any given point if it's a windy day.
So, with this update, any idea what the heck was going on earlier?
Now I just feel that something's wrong near max RPM that may be holding it back...
Stay tuned for my pics, it's just another friction drive but a nice bike (imo) and accessorized fairly nice (imo)

 

[Mike B]

Sounds like the gas cap is not venting properly.

Your speed is fine.

 

[Fonzz]

Sounds like the gas cap is not venting properly.

Your speed is fine.

That sounds like a possibility, even on a new motor I suppose.

Would loosening the gas cap slightly (with less than half a tank to reduce chance of spillage) be a good way to test this theory?

 

[killercanuck]

or a zip-lock and rubber band, with a hole poked in it. That'd be good for a test instead of worrying about losing the cap.

 

[wayne z]

Just go ahead and drill a small hole on the underside of the cap, right close to the gasket. Then you will know that the cap isn't going to be the problem.
I don't know what tank you have but the common peanut tanks often have trouble with the gas cap vents.

 

[Fonzz]

or a zip-lock and rubber band, with a hole poked in it. That'd be good for a test instead of worrying about losing the cap.

Good Idea!

Just go ahead and drill a small hole on the underside of the cap, right close to the gasket. Then you will know that the cap isn't going to be the problem.
I don't know what tank you have but the common peanut tanks often have trouble with the gas cap vents.

A peanut tank, haven't heard that term but I think it indeed describes the stock tank that's attached to the bottom of the Honda GX35 I have.
I could do the hole thing... By small, how's about a 47/1000 drill? Too Small?
Would this be better than buying a new cap or basically the same but for free?
And is the vented cap the main reason/place that gas would leak if not kept upright? And if so, could I possibly get a spare cap that's not vented just to use for transportation? I know that's not doing it right, but I'm compelled to ask... I'm going to try putting the bike at about a 45 degree angle in the back of my truck that has a shell today.
Thanks again for all the input and sorry if I ask too many questions.

 

[GearNut]

If you drill a hole it will leak when the bike is leaned over if the fuel sloshes up to the fuel cap.
Most caps have a rubber one way air valve in them. It only lets air in. It resembles a small "duck bill" shaped protrusion in the center of the rubber cap gasket. If you pinch the sides of the air valve you should be able to see the slit in the center of the valve open. Sometimes the valve gets stuck closed, sometimes it needs to be carefully opened up with the tip of an Exacto knife. Just open the slit do not try to cut it larger.
If you cut it larger the cap can leak out fuel.
The outer plastic portion of the cap should have a teeny, tiny hole somewhere in the top of it to let air in as well. The air flows through the teeny, tiny top hole into the middle of the cap then through the one way "duck bill" valve.
If you pinch the duck bill valve open and blow through the teeny, tiny hole you should be able to feel a small amount of air coming out of the duck bill valve.

 

[Fonzz]

Thanks GearNut,
Haven't drilled any holes yet...
I think I may have a gas cap that's different than the one you described.
It does not have a tiny hole in the outer cap that I can see, even with my reading glasses on and putting it up to my mouth and blowing, it seems to be airtight. Here's what it looks like: