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Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by paul, May 15, 2008.
Ihave a morini with a NuVinci hub
My past is littered with mistakes and broken engines. But I've learned from all that finally have three machines (counting my new MB) that run each time, every time and I love 'em. There's a '96 Royal Enfield 500 thumper with its 6.5 to 1 compression ratio and its 16 horsepower. And there's a Stella (Indian made Vespa) with a Piaggio 200 engine with a Polini two ring, 208cc top end on it. Both are super reliable, (if one won't start, the other probably will). And now I am pleased to add a Grubee 4G kitted Walmart Murray POS bicycle that has been transformed from a pumpkin to a carriage by virtue of its kit.
I have a ht engine mounted on a huffy cheapo, i love it, more excitement in two smokes. seeing as i am never more than 50 miles from my house, give me speed, screw reliability
A little history lesson here---------
In 1960 Mr Honda wanted to build a 4 stroke engine that would compete with the 2 strokes in the 250cc class. So he designed a 6 cylinder 250 cc engine with overhead cams.. the rest in history For the next 4 years the 2 strokers couldn't compete. His little four stroker cleaned thier clocks.
I currently own two 6 cylinder Honda CBX's. a 1979, (first year), and a 1982, (Last year of production.) 1000cc engines & 105 HP. 11 sec quarter mile!!!
4 stroke engines if designed correctly will always outperform the 2 strokes. ( Better fuel/ flow, & better hp/ torque curve). Also the 4 strokers took over in the model airplane industry for the same reasons.
I have a 2 cycle motor on my snow blower, that I bought new in the 74, used it in just about ever winter since going though snow up to 10" deep, had to make two passes to clear. it still runs like new and I still use it even though I have a larger snow blower now. I was going to put it on my bike, but looking at the cost to do it, I decided to buy the kit and keep it as a snow blower.
They used to make 2 cycle 3 cylinder motorcycles that were **** wheels and went year after year. not to mention 2 cycle cars.
So I myself I won't put down the 2 cycle for power or longevity.
It's in how you maintain and use them, as with any other motor.
For what there being used for I think they are the best choice because of size and weight.
To Each His own.
Do a web search on Kawasaki H1 and/ or H2.
I used to have an H2.
Honda gx 35 & GP460 friction drive
I also have the 2 stroke kit made it china. This is my first motor bike. I bought it as is. I got to tell ya, my experience so far...These things are a money pit. I have trouble keeping wheels together. I bought mine used, so I'm replacing parts as I go! Thinking about starting with a new bike for the motor kit. any suggestion? This is my main mode of transportation. I am a good mechanic, no issues there, but so far, my bike has been alot of work. EVERYTIME I ride the thing!
Oftentimes you are better off starting with a good, solid frame and building out from there.
Low budget new bikes, China Mart brand or not, come with wheels, tires, brakes, chains, ect. that are marginally suited for the speeds and stresses that a pedal bicycle puts them through. Now compare that with what an MB conversion puts them through.
Don't buy new that is not up to the task.
If your current frame is up to the task, spend your money on upgrading the wheels, tires and brakes first.
Remember, quality is not cheap and cheap is not quality.
After the bike is safe and reliable then go for comfort items such as handlebars and a seat, unless your budget will let you do it all at the same time.
After sundry disappointing engines, 2 and 4, I gotta thinks ya get what
ya pay for as far as engines are concerned. Cheap crap is just that.
I can't say that about bikes cuz I've been really lucky about finding
good bikes super cheap. For me 4stroke's gotta be a Honda; 2strokes
gotta be Tanaka.
P.S. I'm really annoyed to learn Mongoose has a full suspension bike
called Otero. Should I litigate?
Nobody has mentioned the pure and exhilirating feeling when you hit the power band on a 2stroker! No valved engine can ever do that. 4 strokers have such a boring, predictable straight up power curve.
I understand that most 4 strokers are bullet proof engines and need not to fiddle for years if done good maintenance. I have few mills like that.
The 2 stroker engine is more for a mechanic or hobbyist that enjoy getting his/her hands dirty. ****, I used to rejet everytime I rode depending on the weather.
You can squish so much more horsepower on a 2 stroker, by just adding an expantion header and rejjeting. Then you have the porting, squish band, intakes, boost B, E ignition, etc.
Less weight, cheaper to buy and maintain. Every Stroke is a Power Stroke.
CC by CC, the 2 stroker is twice the engine! Look at Moto GP history.
There's no such thing as a bullet proof engine. I can wear out anything. There's just a lot of people that don't know what they're doing, especially on this forum.
A tad bit insulting there BN.
..and besides, I have not blown any thing up in days! But the week is only half over.
You should ride in a modern automobile with variable cam timing. You would be amazed!
I only hope that such technology will come soon to the little 4 strokes that we use in our hobby.
Wow GN, pertty amazing. I had not heard of that.
I own one. When the engine hits 3500 RPM it's as if you downshifted and gassed it.
It can be a handful when driving "spiritedly" in the rain, even when traveling in a straight line.
I own a Yamaha RD400 street bike from 1977.
The weakest link on all those 2strokers such as the Kawasaki H1 amd H2(widow Maker), the Suzuki GT(Water Buffalo) and Honda NSR was the lame ingition, (points and condenser).
Back in 1999, I bought a modern Electronic Ignition made by one of the RD forum's member from India. It would retard and advance the ignition by customizing your own curve, impressive spark and batteryless, that was cool.
There is no old or modern 4stroker 400cc streetbike that will get near me. I usually ride next to the 600's and 750's with no problem at all. Forget about the bigger and heavier cruisers.
If given the chance to build a 2 stroker mill with all the time and money just like the big automobile corporations have for the valves, I am more than certain they will build an engine that would outperform the 4stroker by simplicity, weight, space, economy and performance. There are few engineers and aficionados that have done it already.
Again, given same size engines (cc's), one a 2stroker, the other one a valve, with modern technology on them, please read http://www.hirth-motoren.de/en/2-stroke-logic.html will definite outperform the 4stroker. There is no doubt!
lol, guys VVT has been around since the 90s. Almost all new vehicles now are using some form of vvt that will adjust the valve timing of the engine based on rpm. The aggressiveness of the variable valve timing will determine how much of a kick you notice in the higher rpms.
As for two strokes vs four strokes: it is what it is imo. They both have their applications. I am almost ready to fire up my 66 cc chinese bike kit engine and I have ported out the chug and flushed out the crankcase with wd 40 then engine oil. I would highly recommend you flush the crankcase on a new engine just based on how filthy the first bath of wd40 came out.
I dont know if any of you guys are into boating, however right now out of all the new outboard boat motors being manufactured, the evinrude etec advanced 2 strokes are the best choice for a power plant for your boat imo. Look up evinrude etec technology. Basically it uses the 2 stroke cycle, however it is a direct injected two stroke. The engine has an ecu computer that wont inject the fuel until the piston has traveled up enough to close of the intake and exhaust ports. It basically acts like a 4 stroke when both valves are closed. It can also control when it injects the fuel in the stroke so that it can inject less of it later at lower rpms to only use a smaller displacement of the cylinder, saving fuel. Its a really amazing motor and i strongly recommend you google it if you are interested in innovative motors and mechanics. If I were to buy a boat motor right now to repower my 1973 fifteen foot chrysler tri hull boat, my first pick would be and Evinrude Etex, but if I had to go with a fourstroke I would look at either a Mercury EFI, or a Honda.
anyways thats my contribution to this debate.
2 pocker easy to re- engineer PK 69/80cc all the time
5 years ago I voted 2 cycle. Today I would vote electric and change that .99% to bring it over the 1% mark! lol