Being new here....

Discussion in '2 Stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits' started by LongHairedZebra, Aug 15, 2011.

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  1. LongHairedZebra

    LongHairedZebra New Member

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    So me being new here and being to close to completing my first build. A question about oil? I've gone through the forums time and time Reading the thread about opti 2 oil and other oils but really I cant decide which i should use. Personal opinions are wanted please.
     
  2. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    I was just about to start a thread on this, but I'll jump in on yours instead. I'm thinking about starting with 100:1 opti 2. Probably. I wish I could give you a more technical opinion about my decision, but it's mainly just what I came to after reading a bunch of other posts about it.

    Every bike is different & the way you'll use the bike matters, too. That's what the break-in period is for: so you can figure out what your particular bike needs while the motor settles in to the way you use it. You might have to adjust it to a different ratio later. Post some info about your motor & if you have hills in the area, and some of the old timers will probably guide you to a good decision.
     
  3. LongHairedZebra

    LongHairedZebra New Member

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    Yea havent had a chance to get that motor running yet anxious to get a spacer for my engine mount so i can finish thing and get going. My motor is a 66c Mega Motors engine from bikeberry.com with the NT carb if im right. and there are quite a few hills around here. I was leaning towards opti 2 also because of all i read on it but nervous about running it 100:1.
     
  4. wayne z

    wayne z New Member

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    All the experts and guru's of every type engine application forum, including aircraft engines, say that synthetic oil is NOT the oil to use for break in, or storage.
     
    #4 wayne z, Aug 15, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  5. LongHairedZebra

    LongHairedZebra New Member

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    Thats great to know that i should avoid synthetic oil. thanks!
     
  6. gubba

    gubba New Member

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    ALL of the motors from Bikeberry will be VOID of warranty if synth oil is not used!!!!
    blow it up and it is yours, NO replacement!
    i use 7 ounces of synth oil per gallon for break in and 25 to 1 (5 ounces the gallon) thereafter
    i have built over 30 of these things and i include the first premixed gallon.
    i love people who advise 50 or 100 to one..... they make me rich replacing motors
    80% of my customers get 4,000 or 5,000 miles and many have gone over 10,000 miles runnung 25to 1.

    take it for what its worth

    stay dry
    gubba
     
    #6 gubba, Aug 16, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  7. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    So there's still quite a bit of dissent among the troops, I see. 2 completely different answers, both written with an air of caution against going the other way.

    We should try to come up with some sort of consensus with this thread.....get some different points of view on here & help guide us noobs. Things like
    "you should choose standard over synthetic IF...."
    "you should use a 30:1 ratio IF..."
    "IF you live in a hilly area, THEN use..."
    "IF you plan on staying under 20 mph, THEN use...."

    even better would be a definitive guide teaching us how to determine what's best for our own bikes.
     
  8. The_Aleman

    The_Aleman Active Member

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    That will never happen. For one, the motors are every bit as inconsistent as the users. What works for dude A might fail for dude B. Dude C might be on another level doing things that dude D doesn't recommend. Then, dude E ...well, you get the picture.

    The only thing you can do is pick a path. Some people here have broke in motors with Opti2 and ran em like they stole em from day 1. Some have blown stuff up. Nothing is absolute except for the fact the motor is gonna break anyway. It's impossible to tell if what you've done has affected it for the better or for the worse.
     
  9. Mozenrath

    Mozenrath New Member

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    The common wisdom on this forum is to use a 24:1 mix during the break-in period(the first few tanks of fuel) and then after that use a 32:1 mix. Some elementary arithmetic and google will help you figure out how many ounces of oil to add to your gas.
     
  10. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    I don't mean to be contradictory, but I don't think there is a common wisdom about starter oil ratios here. I mean, me & LHZ have both read a number of threads on the subject, & we somehow concluded that Opti-2 is what most are starting with.

    I'm not saying we're right.....I'm just pointing out that there are clearly 2 opposing points of view. That's why I'd like to know how we can learn to make these decisions for our bikes ourselves.

    Maybe I'm asking for too much....i guess it's kinda like asking someone to guide us in our decision to be democrat or republican....just matters of opinion, I guess. I'll just stick to daily maintenance & the belief that yes, one day it's just gonna break anyway.
     
  11. Mozenrath

    Mozenrath New Member

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    That's assuming you're using Opti-2. I'm not saying that there isn't any variation as to how much oil someone should be using, but if someone is new to engines and is using inexpensive oil, 24:1 is a safe bet for the break-in period. I don't know how you concluded that most people here are using Opti-2, but I've read quite a bit here about using 24:1 then upping to 32:1. Not everyone wants to spend time fine-tuning their engine, so I don't think it's wrong to set a default standard.
     
  12. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    lol - I think the only "consensus" is that the instruction manual & it's "16:1" is insane :p

    Other'n that it does seem to be pretty much 24:1 for break in & 32:1 thereafter w/a quality nonsynthetic & whatever the oil manufacturer recommends for their particular flavor of synthetic & ofc don't use marine oil as it's designed for water cooled engines.

    Opti is quite popular w/many outspoken advocates but... ssh...

    >.>
    <.<

    *whispers* it's not the only brand of synthetic O.O

    lol I kno right? Given the reviews & the folks whom give them I'm sure it's quality stuff, heck I'd run it if it was commonly available locally, but as it isn't I run good ol' Amsoil synthetic - and it's been around since the late 70's or thereabouts.

    Thing is, I don't actually recommend it despite the fact it's treated me very well... there's just too many variables and running such a lean oil mix means less margin of error... w/o knowing the operator and the machine's tuning... well, suffice to say I tend to suggest 32:1 w/a nonsynthetic as a nice "safe" solution.

    Thing is, the only reasons I run 100:1 is the massively reduced carbon/gunk buildup, no smoke - but most importantly, I hafta buy far less oil *shrug* So, I figure it's not really important enough to "take a stand" one way or t'other save to "just say no" to 16:1 rotfl
     
  13. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    THAT'S what I'm looking for: to widen the margin of error.
    So the 24:1 & 32:1 non-synth offers less opportunities to F the thing up, then...right? That's what BikeGuy Joe's sticky recommends, too (I always keep it in back of my head).

    Ok, to add fuel to the fire -- what about semi-synth?
     
  14. wayne z

    wayne z New Member

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    If in doubt about 2 stroke oils or mix ratios,,break in whatever, study what the Ultralight guys do.
    Their lives depend on what works, and they have a vast anount of knowledge and experience to tap. .
     
  15. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    ultralight.....like the flying lawnchairs? Makes sense. Heading to a forum now.
     
  16. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    Would it confuse things to mention that I, as well as a coupla other members are/were "ultralight guys"? :D

    My flying lawnchair had an (inverted) Rotax 440 & I ran it @ 32:1 w/a nonsynthetic BTW

    [​IMG]
    It's a Quicksivler MX ;)
     
  17. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    Ok....back from an ultralight site.

    this is a pretty great article for noob info about oil & air-cooled 2-strokes.
    Choosing Oil
    Doesn't mention jack about synthetic though. The site sells synth, semi-synth, & dinosaur juice.

    Here's what I'm picking up (correct me where I'm wrong):

    detergent is good because it keeps rings from sticking.
    lower viscosity is good because it reduces gunk buildup.
    too little oil can scrape up your insides. (sounds like a cause of engine lockup)
    too much oil can cause smoke & spark plug problems (sounds like it causes sluggishness)

    how many did i get right?
    anybody ever try this Lucas semi-synth? [Lucas Link] how did it work out?
    .
    .
     
  18. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    ....droooool.....
    I do a lot of reckless stuff & give myself about a 50% chance of ending up in a wheelchair. If it has to happen, crashing a machine I built & taught myself to fly would probably be my choice. Tip o' the hat, sirs. Gray matter & brass combined.
     
  19. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    In my personal opinion...

    Detergents are kinda gimmicky, I suspect it's mostly a promotional tool. A well tuned two stroke & the proper mix shouldn't have ring sticking issues - if it does, it's either too heavy an oil mix or a very high mileage engine. If it's the latter and there's some heavy buildup - a top end rebuild is prolly in order in any case - but there's also a product called "Ring Free" that works quite well... tho I don't bother w/it for these things heh

    Viscosity is somewhat irrelevant w/a premix, tho the stuff used for leaner oil/fuel ratios tends to be thicker, before it's mixed ofc.

    Too little oil is one of the causes of seizure, yep - but too much oil can be just as bad w/heavy carbon & unspent oil buildup, sticky rings & hotspots in the combustion chamber.

    While not the most flattering of pics, a lil while ago I developed a pretty massive head gasket leak on my beater bike, one I've pounded on for years & has about 8-9000 miles on it now.

    So... for the first time since I built the silly thing, I hadta pull the head off to fix it - and after all that mileage, this is what it looked like;

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The pics don't do it justice however, there's what looks to be scoring on the cylinder wall but it's so slight that it can't be felt at all & I suspect it's frm running the stock air "notfilter". The buildup of carbon on the piston is a slightly greasy layer so thin you can still easily see the etched "5" on it and while there's more on the inside of the head, it's still minor for such a "high mileage" two smoker & easily cleaned w/a shot of carb cleaner...

    Which I didn't even bother with, jus' wiped off the head gasket & bolted it back down w/new fasteners (lock washers were so rusted they weren't heh).

    So - as that's a 100:1 engine (save the first 500 miles or so, that was 50:1 - all I could find at the time) you can see that even w/such a thin oil/fuel mix you can get some buildup *shrug* it was Amsoil 'Injector' for the 50:1 & Amsoil 'Saber' for the 100:1 BTW & yes, that bike still gets beaten on regularly & yea, it still smokes the local peds lol ;)
     
    #19 BarelyAWake, Aug 18, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  20. anim8r

    anim8r New Member

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    I'm making too big of a deal about this, ain't I?

    I can't find the post now, but what you said reminds of of something else I read on here. Whoever said it had a drop-dead gorgeous boardtracker & about 5 thousand posts (for whatever that's worth). I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something along these lines: "Quit worrying about it. These things will run on anything. Put a little bit of oil in your gas & have fun."

    I can see the benefits of finding a regular formula to follow, so I'll work on that. For now, I need to:
    Start with a little more oil in the mix
    break it in
    then use a little less oil
    staying within the spectrum of ratios that seem to be what passes for "standard" here lol
    Is that about right?


    btw BA.... 8-9000 miles on one of these?!? What's the longest straight shot you've ever ridden?
     

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