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Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by deacon, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Norman

    Norman LORD VADER Moderator
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    Easy way to clear a flooded engine is to remove plug turn off fuel hold the throttle wide open while pedaling or remove the carb if you want to and pedal the bike with the clutch out so engine cranks over while pedaling you should not need to go far 50 to 75 ft. should clear it out. Put the carb back on if you took it off I got a little ahead of myself. with the carb still off turn on the fuel make sure its not running out of the float chamber due to a stuck float. Turn off the fuel, drain all fuel out of the carb either by taking off the float chamber or turning it upside down until fuel stops running out. If you take the float chamber off you can see if the main jet is plugged check my post on the carb to find this info.Use air or carb cleaner only to blow out a clogged main jet never use a wire it will screw up the hole.
    Ok you got to make sure you have a good spark test it before puting the plug in the head. Get the carb back on. leave the fuel off pedal bike with the plug in let out clutch it should not fire but if there is any fuel in it it might fire hold throttle open about half. Now that your good and tired spray about a 1 sec shot of carb cleaner or starting fluid in the carb you will have to have the aircleaner off for this. lacking the carb cleaner or starting fluid remove the spark plug and pour in the cylinder about 1/2 teaspoon of premix fuel put the plug in and it will fire up if its going to run at all leave the choke off for all this. This is a lot of trouble but not hard to do you should really not need to take the engine apart to clear a flooded engine I told you this to eliminate a problem due to the carb that might be causing your problem. If you know for sure you got a good blue strong spark and a little fuel it will go. Let me know we will either get it to run or put it in to low earth orbit sound good to you?
     
  2. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    Listen to Norman my friend..... If anyone can make that engine run he da man....
     
  3. Norman

    Norman LORD VADER Moderator
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    I'm rereading your posts and it looks like peeing on it won't hurt. Might be whats needed. Take off the air cleaner so you can see how the choke works. Try flooding it with the choke on them take the choke off hold the throttle wide open pedal the **** out of it you should hear the engines piston going up and down if not you got other problems. With the throttle wide open and pedaling it it should fire. Like one of the guys said dribble some fuel in it. Change to a different plug, and gap the thing close go as little as 0.010 if you have to take off the wires to the kill switch until you get it worked out. What your saying don't make since if its got fuel air and spark its got to fire. If it don't send me the thing I'll work some of my VOODOO on it. as a last resort the SOB engine
     
  4. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Spark at right time.
    Fuel-Air Vapor.
    Compression.
     
  5. bgoates

    bgoates New Member

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    grrrrrr...

    I have the carb assembled as in the "right" diagram. I have good compression. I dont know what the spark gap is but I will try to find my gap tool tomorrow and check it. I had a motorcycle mechanic friend of mine over tonight to take a look at it and he is as baffled as I am. I kind of hesitate taking the head off but Im running out of options.

    Thanks for all the suggestions...
     
  6. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    Pulling the head would be my last resort. Okay this is a one in a million shot but I once put plugs in a 57 chevy six and it only fired on five. I did everything I could think of until I finally pulled the plug and looked at it closely. It had a hairline crack in the insulator. Just enough to short the plug out. Take a look it can't hurt.
     
  7. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    I wonder if the choke plate is stuck. That will also do it. I have started many a car in a restaurant parking lot on he first cold day because somebody's auto choke got stuck shut. Have you tried just disconnecting the kills switch entirely. If that is faulty nothing will happen.

    I would run the idle screw in all the way then back off three turns
    disconnect the kill switch
    turn on the gas
    tickle it half a dozen times.
    set the choke on full
    Open the throttle all the way
    find a long downhill stretch and just go like **** and drop the clutch and keep peddling.

    Even if it doesn't start it should sound like its running. If it doesn't you might have a compression problem.

    This is my latest swag appraisal..... scientific wild assed guess
     
    #127 deacon, Mar 11, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2008
  8. bgoates

    bgoates New Member

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    When I drop the clutch it is a lot harder to peddle and yes I have compression.

    Thanks for your reply
     
  9. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    but does it make an engine sound like its running but isnt
     
  10. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    I had to try this to find out mine was stuck when i first screwed it up. Had to pull the plug, drop a long dowel in, then turn the engine to see if the dowel went up and down as the piston moved.

    that would for sure answer the compression issue. Unless the head is cracked which I highly doubt. My guess is still the wiring somehow. I think a long pencil would work as a dowel.
     
  11. bgoates

    bgoates New Member

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    compression

    When the mechanic was here we cranked the engine with the plug out and thumb over hole and felt good compression. However, I don't really notice the running sound as you describe when I pop the clutch when peddling. I mostly notice it is hard to peddle.
     
  12. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    Mine does that piston slap sound or maybe it is the plug firing I guess that is what norman was talking about. But it makes a different sound if the wiring is grounded out. Kind of no sound at all. I'm not sure what that is all about.

    Lets see if anyone else notices it. Sometimes I try to start mine with the switch turned off and it just does nothing. Sometimes I try to start it with the gas turned off or the choke set wrong it makes that sound like it's trying going to run. but when I stop pedaling the sound goes away. Maybe it is the sound of the plug firing that im hearing I don't know. Maybe somebody else knows.
     
  13. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    was your plug wet and oily. You know it really might be a dead plug. You said you changed them but I swear it sounds like everything else is working properly.
     
    #133 deacon, Mar 11, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2008
  14. bgoates

    bgoates New Member

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    I appreciate everyones input on this. This morning I bought O rings and put one in the carb to seal to the manifold. I checked the gap on the plug..OK. The plug does fire. I took the carb off and unscrewed the bowl and blew through the jet...ok. I put the carb back on with the O ring and gasket sealant. I put a screwdriver down the cylinder and cranked it and yes it goes up and down. I cranked it and put my hand over the manifold intake and feel suction. After all this I peddled my ass off and not even a pop.

    I have worked with several 2 strokes before, ie snowmobiles and ultralight aircraft and have never seen anything like this. I have submitted a claim to the purchaser but I'm not holding my breath.

    As a final effort I am going to buy a new plug and try it. I don't know why it would make any difference though when the one I have fires. But I just don't get why when I put fuel in the cylinder it won't fire on that fuel. I have spent way too many hours on this and about ready to pee on it.
     
  15. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    I'm gonna be honest. In scientific terms it sounds like it is cursed.

    My biggest fear when I bought my engine was that I couldn't make it work and would have wasted the money. It's not like buying a twenty dollar electric motor. Still most people seem to manage to get it working.

    I am with you though If you get gas and the piston is moving up and down and if you have compression it should fire right up, if the spark is there.
     
    #135 deacon, Mar 11, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2008
  16. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    The head is 4 cap nuts. (take the plug out first) easy pie.

    Take the nuts off in a nice criss cross patern. Pull the head off. Easy pie.

    Is it a wetish mess? Get an ultra clean rag and wipe it all off, crank the piston and wipe again. Cylinder walls, piston top and head. Clean the gasket for re-use. Button it up with proper torque in a criss cross patern. 10-11 foot pounds as I recall.

    Use a new plug with .018-.020" gap.

    All I can say is this is what worked for me and it's easy. Mine wouldn't start after my carb was having issues. I fixed the carb and it wouldn't start, so I took the head off, cleaned it and it started right up.
     
  17. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    Today I rode my bike and paid attention. Mine was flooded to the point that gas was pouring out of the tail pipe. I kept pedaling and it started finally. But it made almost the exact noise that it makes running as it was trying to start. That's what I don't understand about his engine. Mine is harder to pedal sure but it also makes noises like its running as well. Maybe it's just mine.

    I shouldn't have choked it. The weather today is nice, I guess it didn't need to be choked. Norman tells me If I dont need to choke I am running too rich but it seems to run fine. I'm not messin' with a bike that runs.
     
  18. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    How old is your gas?
     
  19. bgoates

    bgoates New Member

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    Powerking..the supplier , has contacted me and suggested I try turning the magneto magnet over...I did and no difference. So they are sending me a different cdi and magneto on the theory that I don't have enough spark. If that doesn't work they will send me a new engine and carb. I'll let everybody know next week the outcome. Stay tuned......
     
  20. Norman

    Norman LORD VADER Moderator
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    Ok. You got gas in the engine and a good spark. correct? Here is the only thing left I can think of now. Pull off the cover on your ignition coil. You will also need to take off the clutch cover. stuff a rag in the gears and unscrew the nut on the magnets/coil side of your ignition side. I'm thinking if you got spark but it won't fire and fuel and no fire then you might have the magnets rotor put on wrong by the factory. could be the key on the shaft is missing causing it to be out of time firing with the piston on the bottom of the stroke and not toward the top of the power stroke. Do you understand there should be a small metal key to keep the magnet/rotor from slipping on the shaft. Right off I don't know if a guy can put it on wrong and get it out of time . that's the only thing I can now think of that's causing the engine not to run. If you want to send me it you pay for shipping and only parts it takes to get it to run. I'm not out to rip you off I just want you to be able to enjoy your bike like the rest of us get to do. Try what I suggested and if it don't work my offer to help you out stands. Let me know. If Kings will trade out engines that might be your best choise and I now see you pulled off the magnet/rotor so all my ideas went out the window. I sure would take off the kill switch as well some thing is bittin you in the arse on this one. Is your fuel mix 20 parts gas to 1 part oil like 20 oz.gas 1 oz. oil. Heck you said you play with ultralights so you must know how to mix fuel. Deacon might be right that engine just might be cursed. But I think something we all are missing or miscommunicating and thats the problem I can't get my tongs on it for a little visit and a good cussing then it would run just to get away form me.
    I sure would like to have a few minutes with it out back behind the wood shed.
     
    #140 Norman, Mar 11, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2008

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