am i doing it right?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by matthurd, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    iv'e been using the tensioner the entire time...
     
  2. Goat Herder

    Goat Herder Gutter Rider

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  3. bitsnpieces

    bitsnpieces New Member

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    Sorry, must have missed it while going through the posts.

    Did you adjust the chain left with the tensioner on or off? Just out of curiosity.
    The chain should be easily snug without the tensioner or 1 link extra; the tensioner easily makes up for that link.

    Where is the tensioner located? Is it up far enough? I'm assuming it's the stock one so it should be big enough.
     
  4. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    iv'e had the tensioner on pretty much every part of the back arms.

    @goat i don't think the chain size is a problem, i think like someone said (wayne z if i remember right? or maybe venice) maybe my sprocket isn't even enough all around, but i don't know how i can get it any more straight. i think i'll pm chain n take him up on his offer since he works 15-20 minutes away from me. with any luck he'll be able to figure out what i couldn't.
     
  5. bitsnpieces

    bitsnpieces New Member

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    Yep, it's definitely easier to troubleshoot when you have the bike in front of you, but I still don't think it's the sprocket. A tight chain is a tight chain, irregardless if it's 100% straight or not; unless the sprocket is extremely out which it shouldn't be.

    My rear sprocket isn't even 100% tight at the moment; I've only tightened it about 80% or so, and now just need to slowly tighten it bit by bit to get the chain closer to 100% lining up; it's currently around 90%.
    Even so, works perfectly.

    My guess is your chain is still too long, or the tensioner is too short to push the chain up to tighten it.

    Good luck with your bike!
     
    #26 bitsnpieces, Jan 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  6. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    i'm running pretty low on clearance so i can't get the tensioner much higher, then i'm 100% positive the chain is not to long, i have trouble to even connect it if i remove an additional link.
     
  7. bitsnpieces

    bitsnpieces New Member

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    Well, hopefully chainmaker will be able to help you because I personally can't even imagine how this is possible; lack of experience maybe.

    It's just the fact that after I had shortened mine to the maximum possible between the two sprockets, then rolled the bike backwards to tighten the top of the chain, thus the bottom will be slack, then using the tensioner to push up the slack to make it tight (I did put it quite close to the axis of the back wheel with the little roller near the top of the tensioer) to get my chain completely tight top and bottom, it worked perfectly.

    My only guess is your tensioner is too short so it doesn't push the slack high enough to tighten.

    Well, no more guessing, hopefully chainmaker can sort this out for you.

    Best of luck.
     
  8. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    yeah i'm betting im doing something wrong, i pm'd chain earlier today but he never got back to me so im guessing hes not available tomorrow like he had originally said. guess i'll just have to wait while i keep tinkering with it.
     
  9. chainmaker

    chainmaker New Member

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    Matt,
    I have to fly to Indianappolis today for a job interview and wont be back til Fri. I would have gotten back to you sooner but lots of last minute things going on.

    Cheers
     
  10. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    ok, good luck with your interview :)
     
  11. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    YouTube - motorized bicycle installation problem

    heres a short/crappy vid of whats going on now. i didn't move the wheel an inch n it became that loose if i move it more it gets even more lose. i realize i can move the tensioner up more but if i do once it loosens up it will be chain hitting chain.

    any ideas?

    i know someone mentioned my sprocket mite not be on straight enough but i really can't see me getting it any straight i worked for hours on it getting it the best i could.

    and the chain barely could connect the master link so removing links isn't an option.
     
  12. bitsnpieces

    bitsnpieces New Member

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    Okay, now that I've seen a video and got an idea of your situation, firstly, I want to confirm, has the chain been shortened to the shortest available, with the tensioner off?
    So no tensioner connected, chain shortened to the shortest possible (you'll probably end up one or two links long to fit the master link back on).

    If no, you will need to do so. If yes, the roller on the tensioner, put that up to the top of the tensioner and screw it tight. I don't have lock tight, but I've tightened mine so much I struggle to unscrew it, so I leave it; amazing I didn't cross thread which is good.

    Then, pull the bike so that the top of the chain is tight; the bottom will still be loose.

    Then, push the tensioner as far up as possible to the rear sprocket and the lower chain should tighten up.

    Tighten it all up and you're set.

    My chain is a little loose because I heard you don't want to make it too tight as it'll damage it quicker or something.

    [​IMG]

    You'll definitely notice my tensioner is right close to the rear, as most people's are, with the wheel at the top. I didn't put it completely at the top to loosen the chain a bit, as mentioned before.
     
  13. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    i didn't measure it with out the tensioner, i guess that could very well be a huge part of the problem, so i guess i'll take the tensioner off, remove another link or 2, then put the tensioner back, thanks for the idea bits.
     
  14. bitsnpieces

    bitsnpieces New Member

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    Just have to make sure the chain is as short as possible.

    I've made a quick diagram to illustrate how the chain should be looking as you do it so if you feel like the chain is loose or something is wrong, you can look back and get a visual idea.

    This could also be of help to anyone else who may struggle with chains in general out there. :)

    [​IMG]

    1. So first you want to make the top tight which can be done by rolling the bike back. That will rotate the rear sprocket, and because the front can't turn (easily), that'll straighten it right up.

    Hold the bottom chain together so that it is as straight as possible.

    2. You want to make sure at the points you're holding, the chain will meet like that so that the master link can go on; two inside links meeting together.
    If it isn't, just lengthen the chain a link extra from the side which has the outside link meeting so that you have two inner links together. Remove the rest of the chain from those two points you've found, and clip the master link on.

    3. So now that the master link is on, you'll notice that the bottom part isn't straight; this would be because of the above situation more than likely, you had to add an extra link to the length to get the two inner links to meet.

    4. Throw on the tensioner, put the wheel at the very top of the tensioner, push the tensioner as far back as possible. This will straighten up the bottom chain to look as illustrated.
    You'll notice my bike doesn't have its chains perfectly tight; I'd admit it could be tighter but it works very well for me at the moment. Small fine tuning to be done here and there so the bikes work well, with a bit of tuning, work flawlessly. :)

    Optional 5. Once you're set and everything is straight, lower the wheel on the tensioner a little to loosen the chain.
    Found the post I read it from yesterday but forgot to copy it, but basically you don't want to the chain completely tight; it'll just damage things or wear them out quicker from all the tension. A bit of looseness still provides the tension required to run smoothly, and won't pull on the chain and gears too hard.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that; just what I read. :)

    Well, if everything else is set and good to go; fuel up and enjoy the ride.

    Tip. Mix the oil and fuel in a separate container together so you get a good thorough mix; pouring into the tank to shake the bike and mix works, but not ideal.

    And, just go for it, no need for finesse. Throttle up and down, don't be afraid to go flat out here and there, but only for a short time each time.

    You've probably read of that before, but thought I'd just make sure since we're all on the topic here and almost finally getting you on the road! dance1
     
    #35 bitsnpieces, Jan 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  15. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    well i removed link and it was to tight with out the tensioner, i turned the wheel back enough to make it seat itself but not it doesn't quite clear the frame so it has a very small amount of a twist to the chain. anyways i went ahead and finished hooking everything up and then finally fueled it up, but i can't get it running. i thought i almost had it but nothing. i pulled the throttle a few times made sure the petcock was set to the right position (which i later found out was irrelevant since it's leaky) i tried pedaling it with and with out holding down the clutch lever (it's INCREDIBLY hard to pedal this thing right now) but i got nowhere.

    any idea what i may be doing wrong? i'm going to readd that link i took out and run the tensioner further back on the frame n hope for the best. but i dont think the chain is why it isn't starting.

    any ideas?
     
  16. bitsnpieces

    bitsnpieces New Member

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    Do you have a picture of how your current chain is?
    Side shot and top shot so I can get a look at how tight it is and also how much of an angle it is on.

    There can be a few reasons why it won't start from what I've read and experience; air leakage, wires, clutch pads, etc.

    Firstly, with the fuel, did you put some plumbing tape before twisting it on? Some people say that doesn't work well as the fuel eventually burns through and evaporates outside (which happened to me before using the tape), but I haven't had this problem; tape works well for me.

    By leaky petcock, do you mean when you put it to off, it still drips a bit? Try turning it up or down a little more. I found with mine, if I put it exactly on the dot where it says off, it drips ever so slightly. I have it pointing up towards on just a little bit, found that to be the sweet spot.

    With the clutch disengaged (not holding it), it'll be hard because that's you pushing the bike and there's no where for the air to come out from the engine, so it's air compression. That's how the motor starts also. Clutch engaged (pulled in), pedal and gain speed (should be able to pedal freely, if not, clutch is loose), clutch out, compression and fuel and air mix and all, bang, it starts.

    So that can be one reason why it isn't starting, air. Check the carb to make sure there's no leak between the carb and the engine, can't remember the exact name of that bit, but it's the part where you connect the carb onto the pipe which is connected to the engine; that spot is notorious for air leaks, the part where you have generally have a hose clamping to clamp the carb onto the pipe leading to the engine.
    I will be putting some plumbing tape in there later today to make sure mine is true too; you can tell I love plumbing tape by this stage. LOL

    Next, check the air filter, make sure nothing blocking it.
    Try starting with the choke on (lever pulled up), mid-way, and off (lever down). I heard this can help with some engines depending on the quality and build of the carb.

    If this is all check and it still doesn't start, my next idea is no spark or bad wiring.

    Make sure black cables are connected to black, should be 3 in total. One from engine, one from CDI, one from kill switch.
    You'll have 4 left, one of them white. Tape that up completely and stick it somewhere. The white cannot make contact with any metal parts connecting to or on the engine or it acts is an instantly kill switch every time you try to start. The remaining 3, put them together. Mine are blue, one the killswitch was red or something.

    If that's already been done and it wasn't working, could be lack of spark. Take the spark plug out, make sure it's nice and clean, tape it down onto the engine so it makes contact, try pedaling and starting as normal and watch to see if there is spark. If there isn't, swap it, and if there is, put it back.

    My last idea is clutch pads (which happened to my previous motor).
    I would pedal, let go of clutch, but the pads did not catch on so as the rear wheel turned, turning the front sprocket, turning the gear on the other side, well... It didn't, which was the problem. I found the pads to slide across rather than holding on to turn the big gear, to turn the little gear, to turn the magneto.
    I haven't personally fixed that yet, but I read somewhere you can sand the plate a little or something, get some friction back in there, and that should help.

    Hope this all makes sense. LOL
     
  17. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    no pictures now, i just got home, so i can't take them since i'm not building this at my house. but tomorrow i'll be back in my shop and with any luck i can get it working.
     
  18. bitsnpieces

    bitsnpieces New Member

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    I'll get some pictures later today after I finish writing up my talk to help better illustrate what I was trying to say. LOL

    Also, I'm no expert, just providing what I can from my own experience. Hopefully they'll solve the problem, if not, someone else with more experience should be able to help.

    Here's some photos:

    First, the bike chain, as per diagram. Notice that my roller isn't flush at the top, again, this is so the chain isn't over tightened; we don't want that. This way, as the chain becomes loose, I also have some room to use to tighten it.
    [​IMG]

    Here's the part of the carb I was referring to:
    [​IMG]

    Ignore the leak as that's supplier defect / shipping damage; fixing it later today.

    Check wiring; notice my white wire is tucked away:
    [​IMG]
     
    #39 bitsnpieces, Jan 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  19. matthurd

    matthurd New Member

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    Houston we have lift off.

    got it running today and tuned thanks to help from flybytaco. things fun as heck to ride.

    just want to say thanks especially to goat herder, bairdco, flybytaco, bitsnpieces, and anyone else who answered my barrage of questions who i forgot to list.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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