8 speed 79cc revival
- Thread starter xXNightRiderXx
- Start date
xXNightRiderXx
Active Member
The point is, modern engines still have a constant supply of oil on their cranks, regardless of how the oil is supplied. If that dipper actually does fling oil straight onto the journal (I really don't think that is the word for the weights, but rather the part the bushing turns on) then having oil falling directly on top of that should be a better method of lubrication. I may be able to delete that dipper, and reduce the drag from the oil. I have heard of those things snapping off after some time, so I want to remove that possibility of failure asap. I still need to do the governor delete though, but I can't do that until I have a tach. I'm not running 5800 without that flywheel and stainless steel rod.
Oh, ive also looked around for information about fitting a briggs 3hp flywheel onto this 79cc pred, but I've only really found one person who did this a few years back. I know how these things change slightly over the course of a few years, like tapers and such, so I'm wondering if those flywheels are still interchangeable or not? If they are, perfect. I won't have to have one made. If not, then we need to pressure agk into selling their damned flywheels for the 79cc! They already make them on demand for stage kits, they could do us a favor and make them for individual retail. Flywheels are just too important to keep out of circulation like that. Connecting rods i can understand being kept as a stage kit option, but the flywheels? I cannot fit a bigger engine (what most people would say I should do if I need more performance), and I cannot afford to build a whole new bike right now, let alone purchase the $700 stage 2 kit while also managing the hassle of getting the damn engine shipped. There is no way in **** I can afford that stage kit with my income while also paying rent, which takes up half of it. And doesn't agk also already sell flywheels individually for the 212? I feel like they're missing out big time by withholding those 79cc flywheels for the stage kits, cause who the **** is going to pay $700 for a bunch of parts they don't need on a $100 engine just to get two parts they do need? Agk is missing out, big time.
You should study more about automotive engines.
Oil in automotive engine
is pressure fed internally thru galleys and passages. NEVER splashed on. The industry spends billions of dollars to eliminate crank splash and crank slosh. That's common knowledge.
My point is, don't try to reinvent the wheel.
You should save your limited funds for building that v-twin bike.
Oil in automotive engine
is pressure fed internally thru galleys and passages. NEVER splashed on. The industry spends billions of dollars to eliminate crank splash and crank slosh. That's common knowledge.
My point is, don't try to reinvent the wheel.
You should save your limited funds for building that v-twin bike.
Last edited:
There is literally a storm going on in the engine crankcase. Oil and vapors are constantly being whipped everywhere.
Do you REALLY think your gravity/electric pump-fed device will allow you to get rid of that oil dipper?
The crankshaft runs the length of the crankcase.
Where exactly will you drip oil onto the crank?
Don't forget the oil storm AND crankcase pressure that's resisting your dripping oil-feed.
Don't forget that the dipper also flings oil onto the underside of the piston, thereby cooling and transferring heat from the hottest part of the engine.
Your invention will not cool the piston, and your engine will seize, if you delete the oil slinger.
The dipper is known in the engine world as an oil slinger. If it wasn't needed, the manufacturer wouldn't put it there.
If your invention succeeds, then you'll prove what a great job that dipper is doing.
How much more equipment is needed to replace an appendage that doesn't cost the manufacturer a penny to make or maintain?
How much power do you intend to gain? 1% 5%? 50%?
You intend to run a cooler too. That, along with a filter will require a powerful oil pump. If the pump sucks the crankcase too low, your engine will fail.
Do NOT!! remove your engine oil sensor. It will save your engine, alerting you of impending engine failure.
You'll also need an oil temperature gauge.
It's gonna get hot in there!
Do you REALLY think your gravity/electric pump-fed device will allow you to get rid of that oil dipper?
The crankshaft runs the length of the crankcase.
Where exactly will you drip oil onto the crank?
Don't forget the oil storm AND crankcase pressure that's resisting your dripping oil-feed.
Don't forget that the dipper also flings oil onto the underside of the piston, thereby cooling and transferring heat from the hottest part of the engine.
Your invention will not cool the piston, and your engine will seize, if you delete the oil slinger.
The dipper is known in the engine world as an oil slinger. If it wasn't needed, the manufacturer wouldn't put it there.
If your invention succeeds, then you'll prove what a great job that dipper is doing.
How much more equipment is needed to replace an appendage that doesn't cost the manufacturer a penny to make or maintain?
How much power do you intend to gain? 1% 5%? 50%?
You intend to run a cooler too. That, along with a filter will require a powerful oil pump. If the pump sucks the crankcase too low, your engine will fail.
Do NOT!! remove your engine oil sensor. It will save your engine, alerting you of impending engine failure.
You'll also need an oil temperature gauge.
It's gonna get hot in there!
Last edited:
Boy do i agree with this, you will be spending a lot of extra money to blow your engine, and gain nothing. Unless you can drill the rod, crank, and all the related parts, to be feed oil, you will lose it. This is a small engine and not a car engine. The slinger oil system was designed 100 years ago, and some are still running today...............Curt
Just for conversation.
I read somewhere that engineers will put a radioactive material into the oil and then look at a running motor with X-rays or something to "see" here oil is moving and/or accumulating. Before water cooling became widespread a lot of motorcycle engines were designed to be air/oil cooled. Ya gotta have the oil circulation down pretty good to do that.
My XR500 is a good example. The factory spec is 30wt oil, but I tried some 50wt, and I could feel the difference in heat between my legs! That 50wt didn't cool near as well.
I read somewhere that engineers will put a radioactive material into the oil and then look at a running motor with X-rays or something to "see" here oil is moving and/or accumulating. Before water cooling became widespread a lot of motorcycle engines were designed to be air/oil cooled. Ya gotta have the oil circulation down pretty good to do that.
My XR500 is a good example. The factory spec is 30wt oil, but I tried some 50wt, and I could feel the difference in heat between my legs! That 50wt didn't cool near as well.
xXNightRiderXx
Active Member
Alright, you guys bring up some very good points. I won't delete the slinger, but I'm still going to run the pump and filter, minimum. I'm not setting this up to gain power, I'm looking for reliability on long rides. That means clean, cool oil. I'd have the oil pouring directly onto the center of the shaft, right onto the rod and bushing, though it wouldn't really matter too much, would it? Its more to maintain distance from the pump intake. Also, the crankcase pressure is exactly why these engines have breather tubes going into the air box, right? Those cnc valve covers need to be threaded for a 5/16" hose barb.
I'm running the oil sensor disconnected, I'll add an indicator light and drill a hole next to the sensor wires for the pump inlet. If I add the cooler, it's going to be between the filter and the engine. Most people don't run temperature gauges on these engines, do they? I don't think it will be much of an issue so long as I get the right cooler. I think a single pass would suit my needs, I won't have enough flow for a multipass cooler. But, 3gpm on the pump is still a lot of flow for this engine, so maybe I could do up to a 3 pass cooler. I don't want the oil too cold either, that causes it's own set of problems. I'm also not running 30w oil, I'm running 10w30 mobil1 premium synthetic (during the break-in, I'm running royal purple zinc fortified, also 10w-30), when HF recommends 15w.
This engine was never intended for racing or any kind of extremely high performance. It won't be seeing the freeways, just the somewhat forgotten roads the freeways replaced. I just want a reliable cruiser that can last 80 miles in the desert at 50mph without overheating if needed. The flywheel is just so I have peace of mind when spinning the engine up during gear shifts, or if I need to maintain 6000+ for any length of time. Same with the rod.
Forgive the emoji, idk how to remove it, and use the word that was intended to be there...
I'm running the oil sensor disconnected, I'll add an indicator light and drill a hole next to the sensor wires for the pump inlet. If I add the cooler, it's going to be between the filter and the engine. Most people don't run temperature gauges on these engines, do they? I don't think it will be much of an issue so long as I get the right cooler. I think a single pass would suit my needs, I won't have enough flow for a multipass cooler. But, 3gpm on the pump is still a lot of flow for this engine, so maybe I could do up to a 3 pass cooler. I don't want the oil too cold either, that causes it's own set of problems. I'm also not running 30w oil, I'm running 10w30 mobil1 premium synthetic (during the break-in, I'm running royal purple zinc fortified, also 10w-30), when HF recommends 15w.
This engine was never intended for racing or any kind of extremely high performance. It won't be seeing the freeways, just the somewhat forgotten roads the freeways replaced. I just want a reliable cruiser that can last 80 miles in the desert at 50mph without overheating if needed. The flywheel is just so I have peace of mind when spinning the engine up during gear shifts, or if I need to maintain 6000+ for any length of time. Same with the rod.
Forgive the emoji, idk how to remove it, and use the word that was intended to be there...
Last edited:
Your engine could breathe from anywhere on it, like the governor post hole, oil sensor wire hole, even the oil filler holes.
Here's a quick, simple, cheap, easy, trouble-free way of filtering your oil:
Use a turkey baster to suck out all the hot oil. Engine off, of course.
Run the oil thru a new roll of toilet paper, or an automotive fuel or oil filter.
Drain, then pour the oil back into the engine.
You seem like a young man who needs to learn a lot more about 4-stroke engines.
I'll bet money you'll destroy your engine with this idea of yours.
Here's a quick, simple, cheap, easy, trouble-free way of filtering your oil:
Use a turkey baster to suck out all the hot oil. Engine off, of course.
Run the oil thru a new roll of toilet paper, or an automotive fuel or oil filter.
Drain, then pour the oil back into the engine.
You seem like a young man who needs to learn a lot more about 4-stroke engines.
I'll bet money you'll destroy your engine with this idea of yours.
Last edited:
xXNightRiderXx
Active Member
Dude, using a baster sounds like so much mess. I don't think you quite understand how I'm going about this: I don't intend to install this system and run the exact same amount of oil, no. That's suicide. I will be adding oil while I run the pump for the first time, as the lines and filter fill. Like I said, the engine will be in a somewhat overfilled condition once the pump is installed and turned off. This also isn't running the entire time the engine is, it's only running once every couple hours for a couple minutes, or as heat requires if I install the cooler.
I really feel like you are underestimating me in some ways. It's a pretty well known fact that in two systems with the same amount of oil, the one without the lines and filter has the oil level sit higher, simple matter of volumes. I don't see how running this pump could run the engine dry if the lines are full by the time the oil level reaches nominal. 20 seconds to run one gallon of oil through the system when the system won't hold a gallon. It really doesn't sound like this engine will ever be sucked dry by the pump considering it doesn't even use two pints (a pint is a quarter quart, right?). Once the lines are filled, it will just sit there recycling, because it's a closed loop system. I expect it will just take another pint (or two?) to give the engine enough oil to run the filter. I might not know a whole lot about engine dynamics, but I don't really need to know a whole lot about them. If I eventually do need to learn engine dynamics, I can ask my dad who spent 8 years at wyotech learning exactly those things. He's not into these bikes, but an engine is an engine.
Im not sure if you also read my last post entirely. Im also adding a red indicator light to signal when the sensor detects a low oil condition. Much like a VW Enduro rally, as soon as that light comes on, I will hit the kill switch. In this system, that will only ever happen if there's a leak or it's being burned. Believe me, im not ignoring what youre saying, but simple isn't always reliable. And when im out on the road, I cant just take a turkey baster, suck my oil out, and run it through a filter while I'm baking there in the sun on the side of the road in the middle of no mans land. That's an emergency event. No, I want something I can switch on as I'm rolling, no mess, no hassle, no lost oil. Remember, I'm going to be making 500 mile rides with this bike. Reliability is paramount. To me, sitting there cleaning the oil with a turkey baster and a roll of tp doesn't exactly scream reliable. It just sounds like yet another chance for contaminants to get into the engine. Sure, the pump may run my engine low, but at least I can monitor that with a low oil indicator and adapt to prevent engine damage. You can't monitor contaminants with an indicator light. Are you sure you are looking at this in every way possible? The way I've been thinking of this is by looking for every situation in which the simple operation of the pump could cause failure, and then I think of a way around that until I find another issue that needs another fix. Many of the issues you are citing I've already thought of and compensated for in my plan. Low oil? Pour more oil. Overheating? Attach a properly chosen cooler. Too much pressure? Increase the hose diameter and oil volume, or get a smaller pump. Too much flow? Same thing.
I promise, I'm not just some kid with stars in his eyes ignoring the wisdom of those who came before.
Ps: im not using this on mobile anymore... I hate these touchscreen keyboards so much
Hmmm....
Firstly, a pint is a half quart, not a quarter quart.
Secondly, I'm not saying to suck that oil out in the middle of nowhere. I'm suggesting this to be like a typical oil change at home or a convenient location, as often as you like.
Thirdly, by the time your engine light goes on, the damage is done.
Fourthly, what you propose is NOT a closed-loop system. Closed-loop is pressurized throughout the system.
Yours is not pressurized, if you have it dripping out on the crank.
It's also common knowledge among motorheads world that too much oil in an engine is worse than insufficient.
Besides blowing oil thru the seals, too much oil will rob hp from crank slosh, when the counterweights and rod journal plows thru the excess oil.
The component that will kill your engine is the oil pump. Unless your engine side cover is transparent with graduated oil measurement markings, you have absolutely no idea how much oil is in the crankcase while idling. Too much or too little.
And you'll never know how much oil is in there while riding.
FYI, a low-volume pump sucks 35 gallons/hour, or about 74 ounces/minute.
That means this pump can suck your engine completely dry in less than 10 seconds.
Are you willing to spend $200 or more on your oi pump, hose, fittings, cooler and a replacement engine?
With your limited income, you can't afford to fix your expensive mistakes.
Why take a chance?
Even if your engine lives, no one here will say "That's a GREAT idea! I think I'll do the same with my engine!"
Turkey baster? Yes, a few members here have mentioned draining their oil with the baster. It makes sense; I'll try it.
Turkey baster and oil filter? I bet you someone here is wiling to try it. I am.
If not turkey baster, then a plastic syphon from Auto Zone.
You get the idea.
If your dad has many years experience behind him, you should run your idea past him.
Just my opinion, I predict engine failure.
Firstly, a pint is a half quart, not a quarter quart.
Secondly, I'm not saying to suck that oil out in the middle of nowhere. I'm suggesting this to be like a typical oil change at home or a convenient location, as often as you like.
Thirdly, by the time your engine light goes on, the damage is done.
Fourthly, what you propose is NOT a closed-loop system. Closed-loop is pressurized throughout the system.
Yours is not pressurized, if you have it dripping out on the crank.
It's also common knowledge among motorheads world that too much oil in an engine is worse than insufficient.
Besides blowing oil thru the seals, too much oil will rob hp from crank slosh, when the counterweights and rod journal plows thru the excess oil.
The component that will kill your engine is the oil pump. Unless your engine side cover is transparent with graduated oil measurement markings, you have absolutely no idea how much oil is in the crankcase while idling. Too much or too little.
And you'll never know how much oil is in there while riding.
FYI, a low-volume pump sucks 35 gallons/hour, or about 74 ounces/minute.
That means this pump can suck your engine completely dry in less than 10 seconds.
Are you willing to spend $200 or more on your oi pump, hose, fittings, cooler and a replacement engine?
With your limited income, you can't afford to fix your expensive mistakes.
Why take a chance?
Even if your engine lives, no one here will say "That's a GREAT idea! I think I'll do the same with my engine!"
Turkey baster? Yes, a few members here have mentioned draining their oil with the baster. It makes sense; I'll try it.
Turkey baster and oil filter? I bet you someone here is wiling to try it. I am.
If not turkey baster, then a plastic syphon from Auto Zone.
You get the idea.
If your dad has many years experience behind him, you should run your idea past him.
Just my opinion, I predict engine failure.
Last edited:
xXNightRiderXx
Active Member
Again, a lot of good points. You seem to forget though that my engine is mounted with a decline to the front, so my oil sensor is actually sitting higher than normal. Even if the oil level goes low enough to trigger the light, there is still enough in there to provide crankshaft lubrication and piston cooling, even if just barely. Maybe if I added a check valve in combination with the filter's anti-drainback valve, I could keep the engine from going into an overfilled state once the lines are full and the pump is shut off. In addition, I could run the filter outlet line so it acts like a sink trap, but in reverse.
If a pint is a half quart, then my engine still uses only half a pint.
I decided on this filter for the drainback prevention (should help keep the oil level steady) and because practically every review on it says it's better than most other filters.
This pump is what I am looking at for pulling the stuff through the filter and cooler.
As usual when researching anything regarding engine stuff, I type in one thing, and I get a whole bunch of stuff that is NOT that one thing. I type in "how can an oil pump dry up a wet sump" and I get "advantages and disadvantages of a dry sump." I'm really tired of this search engine redirection bullhonkey..... I don't know if YOU can find one, but I definitely cannot for the life of me. I search for anything involving the two words "dry" and "sump" and that's ALL I get, is dry sump crap. I am STILL sitting here wondering how the **** any pump, regardless of how powerful, can cause my engine oil to deplete simply by running the pump, even when that oil is being returned to the sump at the same rate once the system is stabilized. And again, this isn't a race engine, I don't care about the relatively small losses from the oil being splashed around when I could see much larger gains simply by reducing the weight of my wheels and replacing the flywheel (reducing rotational mass). Even if I have to reduce the current or voltage of the pump to keep the flow rate down, I want to ensure the lowest possible amount of wear, and that means actively keeping the worn off bits of metal out of the oil, and trapped in a filter.
I removed "dry" from the search terms, and got slightly more relevant results, but not a single one that says that the pump alone can empty the sump. I'm going to ask my dad today, and if he doesn't have an idea about it, then the only option left is to take my old engine and use it as a test platform (it's worn to a knock anyway, so it doesn't matter if I destroy this one). I will cut a hole in the case cover and another in the top of the case for two pieces of acrylic to bolt into. A light shines through the top, and the acrylic in the case cover will be from top to bottom, and both areas will be triple layered (3 pieces, one inside, two outside. Red threadlock will be used on those bolts to avoid ANY chance of having one fall in there, and there will be six on the top set, and 12 on the cover set. The inside layer will be sealed with oil resistant RTV, and the outside with high temp. Tests would be done at idle. I may run a test with an auxiliary canister as the primary feed for the pump, with the engine sump draining into that. It would increase the volume of oil, and so long as that auxiliary tank is full above the inlet (with a check valve, obviously), the pump cannot possibly drain the engine sump completely. I'm thinking this pint bottle will do the trick if I mount it right. Slap the inlet about 5/8ths the way up the side, the outlet 1/8th, and then fill it to 7/8ths capacity, so the vacuum triggers the check valve.
This might be more complicated than most of you guys would be willing to do, but in my opinion, it's worth it for those long trips where I won't be changing the oil out every 200 miles. This will give my one fill, and the engine in the long run, a much higher range compared to just having the oil sit there, carrying the metal bits in the currents. Considering the pump has a max temp of 140 F, I need to run a cooler to keep the engine oil slightly cooler than that. How should I run a temp gauge though? I would need to monitor the temperature with this pump. I suppose I could mount a digital sensor in the cooler outlet and a readout on the handlebar...
Update: I found a temp gauge
People say it's too narrow to fit the tank it's claimed to fit, so it should fit my bottle nicely. It's long enough to give me a decent temp reading coming straight out of the engine.
Last edited:
I wasn't aware your engine was slanted with the cylinder in the downward position.
Even worse than tilting the other direction.
Why?
Your rod journal may be in the dubious position of crank sloshing and robbing hp.
In other words, adding more oil and your crank and piston cylinder could be swimming in it.
With all your experimenting and your tilted engine position, maybe you should remove the side cover and see where your oil level is.
Then keep adding oil and watch how close it gets to the rod journal.
Even worse than tilting the other direction.
Why?
Your rod journal may be in the dubious position of crank sloshing and robbing hp.
In other words, adding more oil and your crank and piston cylinder could be swimming in it.
With all your experimenting and your tilted engine position, maybe you should remove the side cover and see where your oil level is.
Then keep adding oil and watch how close it gets to the rod journal.
" I am STILL sitting here wondering how the **** any pump, regardless of how powerful, can cause my engine oil to deplete simply by running the pump, even when that oil is being returned to the sump at the same rate once the system is stabilized."
Pumps suck by the gallons. A 35- gallon pump pushes 4,480 ounces.
You have 12 ounces of oil in your crankcase.
Think about that.
The flow rate of return oil is ALWAYS less than the withdrawal rate, ESPECIALLY in an open loop/unpressurized system. This is due to the loss of flow due to gravity, resistance from the hoses' length and size, fittings, filtering and the cooler's passages. If the oil flowed into and out of the cooler too quickly, it wouldn't have the time for the oil to cool down.
"Even if I have to reduce the current or voltage of the pump to keep the flow rate down, I want to ensure the lowest possible amount of wear..... "
How are you going to accurately reduce current or voltage? That means you're gonna have varistors(Google that) and a voltage gauge?
What will be the optimal flow rate? Trial and error, I suppose?
You're in over your head. You need a LOT more knowledge on basic principles of physics, and how basic equipment work. You have limited money to finance this project and pay for that replacement engine you'll need.
Pumps suck by the gallons. A 35- gallon pump pushes 4,480 ounces.
You have 12 ounces of oil in your crankcase.
Think about that.
The flow rate of return oil is ALWAYS less than the withdrawal rate, ESPECIALLY in an open loop/unpressurized system. This is due to the loss of flow due to gravity, resistance from the hoses' length and size, fittings, filtering and the cooler's passages. If the oil flowed into and out of the cooler too quickly, it wouldn't have the time for the oil to cool down.
"Even if I have to reduce the current or voltage of the pump to keep the flow rate down, I want to ensure the lowest possible amount of wear..... "
How are you going to accurately reduce current or voltage? That means you're gonna have varistors(Google that) and a voltage gauge?
What will be the optimal flow rate? Trial and error, I suppose?
You're in over your head. You need a LOT more knowledge on basic principles of physics, and how basic equipment work. You have limited money to finance this project and pay for that replacement engine you'll need.
5-7 they are built already slanted, https://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-79cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epa-69733.html.
No mater how hard he trys not going to last......Curt
No mater how hard he trys not going to last......Curt
xXNightRiderXx
Active Member
Ah, ok. Thanks for explaining that. It makes sense now.
And about my engine position: I thought you had actually looked at the pictures I posted earlier in the thread. Those pictures would help you visualize. I'll post one here so you dont have to search.
I'm not not listening, I'm saying I'm doing this filter system no matter what, I'm just looking for things to be aware of so I dont bust my engine. This discussion has really helped. If I didn't come here first, and just started doing it, I would have destroyed my engine, no doubt. Now, I can take a calculated risk and do what I need to reduce it. In all honesty, I'm lucky that I doubted my ability to really make an effective oil filtration system.
I was thinking a potentiometer on a voltage regulator for managing the voltage to the pump. So long as the input is 12v, only 8v max should come out. If I need it lower, I just turn the knob.
Should I just run a 1 gallon reservoir, and have the pump draw from that? I know already I'm going to have to position the pump where it can push the oil into the engine from the cooler, because I doubt the oil coming from the engine is going to be cool enough. How would the pump's position in the system affect the flow?
I plan on running 3/8" heater hose, so there should be enough flow and pressure. If I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to point it out.
It will be some time before I'm going to be able to do this, because I still have to apply for a vin, pass inspections, pass emissions, get registered and insured, etc. Before I even do that, I need to get this bike performing the way it needs to, which means 50mph up any grade less than 3%, and I need to figure out where the best shift points for each gear are.
I never expected this process to be easy, but now I see just how not easy it is. Still though, it seems fairly simple in theory. Just match flow rate to the system's needs.
For reference, a photo of my engine area as it sits now
I just realized: the oil filler is primarily why I don't want to use the turkey baster, and use a pumped system instead. I have only one, and it sits level with the ground. For it to be not a mess, I have to elevate the front wheel, and then manage to keep the bike stable as I'm jostling it around removing the oil. That can get very dangerous going solo considering how much weight is above the axle line. In addition, the process is the same for adding the oil. I actually started adding the oil through the valve cover because it's just safer.
Anyway, I hope I don't come across like a cock sure dumbass in my persistence. Once I set my mind on something, the only thing that can change it is my own doubt or a highly logical reason as to why I should not. I think oil filtration is very much worth the effort and the cost to have an engine that can run one fill for a thousand miles. It saves me money on the high grade oil I use (seriously, $15/qt). If I can run $60 of my selected oil through this system, I wouldn't have to change it for a good 3000 miles.
Tell ya what, I'll work with my dad towards getting this system designed, I'll get a test platform going, and once I get the bugs worked out, I'll install it on my bike. After 500 miles, I'll cut my filter open, and post just how much crud it pulled out of the oil. And hey, I just might even put out kits depending on my results. I think, ideally, flow rate shouldn't be any more than 4gph for a 79cc. Why though aren't there any pumps that have that rate? I would think that there are certain applications where a pump is needed, but the flow needs to be super low, like a dialysis machine.
Found a potential candidate for the pump. If I replace the barbs with brass reducer barbs and hose clamps, I could run a decent pressure with it. Might actually run two so they share the pressure load. A couple Y barbs and then a reducer would do. It will only do 6.3GPH. I think it would even work well for an injected carb or throttle body setup, if someone makes them for these motors.
Update: I found a converter to find fl-oz/min. The pump I linked to will do 400mL/min, which is 13.53 fl-oz/min. Is that still too much, or is it just enough?
Last edited:
Tony01
Well-Known Member
Geez guys. Such big paragraphs for such a simple topic. Stock oiling setup and valve cover pcv/filter combo work a charm. DONT MESS WITH IT. Try this: Stop talking about it. Open oil return hole between the lifters to at least .070”. You might need a pin vise to hold a little drill to reach it. Suggest you do this upside down if you wanna leave the side cover in place. Tighten all the bolts, hit it with your purse a couple times for good luck, then start it up and send it... change oil after the first 20 miles, then every 2000 miles.
Last edited:
xXNightRiderXx
Active Member
The reason why I want to do this is because the last time I changed my oil before replacing the engine, it was still black with a lot of shavings floating around in it, as if it were charcoal black metallic paint. I know the black is just soot in the oil. It was the 5th oil change and it hadn't been in the engine for more than 50 miles. The engine is less than 500 miles old. The cylinder sleeve was in perfect condition when I checked it. I only removed the side cover on that engine to drain all the oil out of it, which somehow had gas in it.
The new engine has less than 10 miles on it, so I'll check the oil when it hits 20. This is break-in specific oil. I also think this motor has the piston slightly more above the deck at TDC, because I'm getting more power out of it with the old cylinder head than I did with the old motor.
I'm hoping that engine was just made with bad clearances or something like that. Of course, I think the gas getting into the oil was because of ethanol, I didn't have that problem with clean, additive free gas.
xXNightRiderXx
Active Member
Well, I can see that I likely drove people away, but I need some advice on exhaust and carb tuning. I'm putting the stock carb back on so I can finally use that fancy front facing air filter and stop running rich (I learned that 2 stroke carbs push more fuel into the engine), but I need to know where I can get some reliable jets around the 80-90 size, with some wiggle room. Stock is 75. My air filter is basically a cold ram air intake. The faster I go, the more air is pushed into the engine.
Also, I need to know if there's anyone in Boise who can weld a custom exhaust for me, even if it costs $80 or more. I can't weld, and I have no idea how to tune exhaust for added power. That expansion chamber on my current pipe is preventing proper exhaust evacuation, and I can't just cut it off and clamp something else on. Also, the placement and orientation of the pipe now nearly scalds my thigh. I can't have that distraction, so it needs to be low profile. If I go to a muffler shop, I'd be paying an arm and a leg for it, likely well over $200, as is the custom in Boise.
Also, about pumping the oil: I'm thinking peristaltic pumps would be a great way to run a pump and filter, but the housing would have to be metal instead of acrylic and the tubing would have to be able to withstand high temperature while remaining ductile enough to allow the pump to do its job. I'm thinking a stiff silicone, maybe? The flow rates are low with these pumps, and they're great for semisolid fluids (oil with a bunch of itty bitty metal shavings wouldn't phase it). I won't have to worry about draining my engine so long as I have enough oil to fill the lines before I attach the system to the engine, and a peristaltic pump doesn't allow backflow and has minimal pumping losses. I may mount it between the filter outlet and the engine inlet though, to minimize heat damage.
I won't be running a cooler, because I plan on having enough power to run 50mph at low to mid rpm, and that speed is sufficient to keep the engine cool enough. So, that will further minimize pumping losses due to line length. I think I can find a variable speed pump as well, largely because they're used in hospitals for dosing, or maybe a slow flasher relay to run it in pulses. Adapt and overcome is what my father says. I would need an alternator too, in order to run all my electronics without draining my battery within an hour. Hard little things to find, if they're under 35a.
Just in case, I may add a small bottle to hold more oil between the filter and engine, that way there's absolutely no risk of running the engine dry. I could get a transparent bottle in case it gets low (low in the bottle usually would mean low in the engine). I'd mount the bottle high though, so there's positive pressure against the flow of oil into the bottle from the engine. Peristaltic pumps can handle that kind of suction, and can run dry. I'll probably have one custom made and 3/8" thick, to handle everything thrown at it and offer enough thread space for the barbs. Again, I'd have to consult my dad about this and see what he thinks. He's no automotive engineer though. I think I'll hold off until my other financial obligations are taken care of, and can consult with both my dad and an automotive engineer.
Also, I need to know if there's anyone in Boise who can weld a custom exhaust for me, even if it costs $80 or more. I can't weld, and I have no idea how to tune exhaust for added power. That expansion chamber on my current pipe is preventing proper exhaust evacuation, and I can't just cut it off and clamp something else on. Also, the placement and orientation of the pipe now nearly scalds my thigh. I can't have that distraction, so it needs to be low profile. If I go to a muffler shop, I'd be paying an arm and a leg for it, likely well over $200, as is the custom in Boise.
Also, about pumping the oil: I'm thinking peristaltic pumps would be a great way to run a pump and filter, but the housing would have to be metal instead of acrylic and the tubing would have to be able to withstand high temperature while remaining ductile enough to allow the pump to do its job. I'm thinking a stiff silicone, maybe? The flow rates are low with these pumps, and they're great for semisolid fluids (oil with a bunch of itty bitty metal shavings wouldn't phase it). I won't have to worry about draining my engine so long as I have enough oil to fill the lines before I attach the system to the engine, and a peristaltic pump doesn't allow backflow and has minimal pumping losses. I may mount it between the filter outlet and the engine inlet though, to minimize heat damage.
I won't be running a cooler, because I plan on having enough power to run 50mph at low to mid rpm, and that speed is sufficient to keep the engine cool enough. So, that will further minimize pumping losses due to line length. I think I can find a variable speed pump as well, largely because they're used in hospitals for dosing, or maybe a slow flasher relay to run it in pulses. Adapt and overcome is what my father says. I would need an alternator too, in order to run all my electronics without draining my battery within an hour. Hard little things to find, if they're under 35a.
Just in case, I may add a small bottle to hold more oil between the filter and engine, that way there's absolutely no risk of running the engine dry. I could get a transparent bottle in case it gets low (low in the bottle usually would mean low in the engine). I'd mount the bottle high though, so there's positive pressure against the flow of oil into the bottle from the engine. Peristaltic pumps can handle that kind of suction, and can run dry. I'll probably have one custom made and 3/8" thick, to handle everything thrown at it and offer enough thread space for the barbs. Again, I'd have to consult my dad about this and see what he thinks. He's no automotive engineer though. I think I'll hold off until my other financial obligations are taken care of, and can consult with both my dad and an automotive engineer.