40 MPH Club

I like your CVT idea Davezilla. At first I think power loss like an automotive CVT or auto. But then I think of 50cc scooters and drag race mopeds that use them and are extremely efficient. I want to follow your progress on it, do you have a build thread on it?
 
I don't understand you guys some times. I ride my motorcycle if I want to go
above 40mph. I'm like KC in the respect I hit the ground a lot harder than
when I was young. I also see no reason to get all I can from one of these cheap
China engines, just to see it fly apart & it will at high rpms.

You boys have your fun, we all have our own reasons as why we do what
we do. Just my thoughts.
Fly
 
Flyman said:
I don't understand you guys some times. I ride my motorcycle if I want to go
above 40mph. I'm like KC in the respect I hit the ground a lot harder than
when I was young. I also see no reason to get all I can from one of these cheap
China engines, just to see it fly apart & it will at high rpms.

You boys have your fun, we all have our own reasons as why we do what
we do. Just my thoughts.
Fly
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All I can say is its cheap and fun... I got 3 motorcycles... all considerably faster than stock so I still got them to satisfy my need for speed, but I don't leave anything in my garage stock either... I've even ported and souped up my chainsaws, weed whackers, push mowers... and anything else that has a gas engine... it's just second nature to me. It really don't matter if I wreck a motorcycle at over 10th or a bicycle at 4th it's still gonna hurt.... I just do all I can to keep the odds in my favor... good tires, proper maintenance, and only get stupid on long empty roads where others won't get harmed by my addiction to go fast... I also have full gear on when I'm out playing too...
 
I too have had big fast motorcycles and raced them on a track. This is pure fun and learning to build motors myself. I actually have a young, small, aero rider to put on it at Bonneville. I really enjoy the engineering and tuning plus it is truly fun to ride. I have done quite a bit of vehicle testing over the years for customers and builders so I am paying close attention how this bike is handling as the speed increases. If it starts to feel unstable we will either modify it or build another frame entirely. My rider and I were discussing steering dampeners yesterday and with the way things feel so far that may be all we need in the end. I am not out there being a daredevil at all. I do wind it up to see how it reacts but I keep the environment as controlled as can be.
 
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Very true.. its hardly being a daredevil building onenof these so they can keep up with 40mph traffic and still be within the speed limit. I ride mine in the morning before there's a lot of traffic on the road I ride on but id rather be able to keep up with the flow of traffic than be a nuisance going 10mph under the speed limit... and I like to see the look on people's faces when I pass them up on my way to breakfast or headed back to the shop... not to mention how often somebody follows me to ask where they can get one or if I'll sell mine to them. Most of them are just impressed that I'm keeping up with the traffic and want one just that easily.
 
I had my first experience with that this past Sunday. I rode the MB down to the grocery store on an errand for my wife and an excuse just to go ride around. It's a very nice neighborhood and store. A customer was walking out while I was locking to the bike rack and stopped to look over the bike and ask me about it. He was completely fascinated by it, and admired it and asked more than anyone ever has about my motorcycles. Some of my bikes cost over ten thousand dollars and this has probably under 500 total in it and I like it better and it gets more positive attention.
 
LandSpeedRecord said:
I too have had big fast motorcycles and raced them on a track. This is pure fun and learning to build motors myself. I actually have a young, small, aero rider to put on it at Bonneville.
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I am curious about what class you are racing a China girl in at Bonneville?

Are you coming to the next Socal Motor Bicycle Racing event on sat March 28th at Grange Motor Circuit in Apple Valley, CA?
 
The Bub motorcycle speed trials have a run what you brung in all the cc sizes but there are a few things in the AMA rules that would be tough to get a bicycle thru. A possibility is to build ground up, loose the pedals and be special construction. The guys at Sportsman Flyer did a lot of work and were able to run and set a record in one of the Southern California Timing Association events. To me there is something about going out there on something with pedals and I love this little China girl motor. I raced/rode Suzuki 600's for 13 years and I am having so much more fun with this right now. I would love to come road race with you all in So Cal but need to build a very different bike. I have raced here in Tucson where they held the Death Races and the track looks similar.
 
LandSpeedRecord said:
I had my first experience with that this past Sunday. I rode the MB down to the grocery store on an errand for my wife and an excuse just to go ride around. It's a very nice neighborhood and store. A customer was walking out while I was locking to the bike rack and stopped to look over the bike and ask me about it. He was completely fascinated by it, and admired it and asked more than anyone ever has about my motorcycles. Some of my bikes cost over ten thousand dollars and this has probably under 500 total in it and I like it better and it gets more positive attention.
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I know what you mean there... my Intruder1400 has a custom paint job on it, lowered 2" in the back and 1" up front, custom seat, chrome everything... and I got my Sportster that also has custom paint and Lots of chrome and good looking add ons... Then I got a Buell Blast with a lot of custom work done on it as well... and guess which bike is the star of the show at my shop... Yup... the $70 Roadmaster mountainbike with a ?100 engine bolted to it.... Got maybe about $400 invested in it and that's the one everyone asks to look at or if they can take a picture of, if it's for sale, or if I can build one for them...
Also... take one of these to a biker rally and see the attention you'll get.. show up on a custom Harley and everybody else has one, but show up on one of these and you'll have a crowd around you and the bike the whole time you're there..
 
Cool collection Davezilla. I rode an Intruder for a few years before I bought my first GSXR. That bike was really what started my love for Suzuki that has gone on for almost two decades now. I don't think they are better than the others, just different in a way i can't explain and I don't like to ride anything else.
 
LandSpeedRecord said:
Cool collection Davezilla. I rode an Intruder for a few years before I bought my first GSXR. That bike was really what started my love for Suzuki that has gone on for almost two decades now. I don't think they are better than the others, just different in a way i can't explain and I don't like to ride anything else.
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Currently own a Harley and an old 1982 Yamaha but Im a big fan of Suzuki, best little dirt bike I ever owner was a punched out RM80 with big carb higher compression head, that little bike would eat your lunch if you weren't careful.

I like them all in some way and certain models, just like our motorized bikes if it has wheels and an engine I usually like it....lol!
 
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I got hooked on Suzukis at an early age myself and the first full size motorcycle I bought with my own money was a 1987 GSXR750... That thing scared the daylights out of me the first few blasts up the street, then I kinda got used to the raw power that bike had and ended up doing my usual... bigger carbs, higher compression, Vance & Hines header and muffler.. if ya wanna call it a muffler... it was more like a giant aluminum can on the side of the bike that would blow out the packing after a few hard runs... I remember I was running late for work one day and headed down the highway toward town and there were these 2 cars driving side by side, both going about 10 mph under thte speed limit.. I kept switching lanes and even flashing the hi beam when nothing else got their attention for one of them to speed up or slow down... just GET OUT OF MY WAY was all that was on my mind at this point... After about another mile of this I got brave and put the bike right on the center line, held it there a second or 2 while deciding if I could fit between the cars... Dropped the bike down to 2nd gear and cracked her wide open... I blasted past both cars with about 2 feet clearance on each side and the poor guy on my right had his window down so he got a Full dose of my blown out Vance & Hines at 9500 rpm at WOT... I looked in the mirror after I got past them and both cars swerved and I know I scared the **** out of both of them... But... they shoulda got out of my way when they had the chance...

The intruder and the Sportster both run open drag pipes with no baffles but they're no where close to as loud as that old Gixxer was... The intruder is exceptionally fast for a cruiser and will smoke the tires all the way thru first gear no matter how softly you take off and will also pull the front wheel up if I can get enough traction... like new tires on new pavement I can usually get the front end hovering about 6" off the pavement until I up shift into 2nd... That bike is a true Torque Monster and still one of the fastest accelerating V twins out there... Only the Suzuki M109R, thte yamaha Vstar Warrior, and maybe the Vtx 1800 Honda can out accelerate the bike.. and of course, the Harley V rod but it can eat just about anything that has a big V twin.
The sportster feels like a kid's bike after a ride on the Intruder and it's also a fast bike... I remember when I hurt my ankle and my friend had to ride it home for me he was all smiles and kept asking me what all I did to the bike... i just pointed over to the intruder and told him "this one's Way faster"...
 
Davezilla said:
It sounds to me like you're definitely reving out and the max rpm is your limiting factor for more top speed like me and if it can climb a fairly steep hill without losing too much speed or maintaining a certain speed, the power is there and a gear change will definitely get you faster...
I have a small pocketbike CVT I bought last summer but my frame is too small to get it in there and working the way I'd like it to, but maybe in one of my next builds I'll get a bike with a larger frame so I can run it thru a jack shaft behind or under the engine, it will also need to be modified and a new plate made for it to make it narrower as well as upgrading the bearings but it would offer enough range to install a 36 tooth and accelerate like the 44 on the bottom but top out like a 32 tooth since it's about 10% overdriven at full speed.
Getting this to work on a CG setup won't be an easy task but if I can find the right frame or chop up and re weld a frame I should be able to get it to work.
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Dave do I sure have a frame for you! Come on over and just chop up my cruiser frame! I don't mind!
 
Love those old gixxers Dave! Hopefully a bit of packing flew out at those cars as you had to split them ha ha. I think i figured out a way to get enough power out of a China girl to send the connecting rod out the bottom. These parts are cheap enough that i will probably progress this method until a failure and try to get enough data to know how far we pushed it until it failed. I will post pics and results as they come. I have been studying this for hours and hours and doing things this way gives me a lot of control of how much power I am adding and potentiall to keep the bike very tidy and aero.
 
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So far the China girl engines have withstood over 13000 rpm in one build, the Arrow race engines make nearly 10hp... and some are modded to make even more at 11000 rpm and the strongest China girlnive seen so far was making a claimed 18 Hp at 13000 rpm using a stage6 jug for a malossi enngine so these bottom ends are proven as long as the work is done right, it looks like they will hold just fine... I'm sure there is a limit to the power or rpm where one would throw a rod but so far the only ones that have toasted were mainly from taking too many shortcuts or using cheap internals like the original bearings or the older type rods that used the un caged needle rollers and no real way tonget the oil into the bearings except for a few small grooves on the side of the big end for oil to make it to the rod bearing.
The better rods will have 3 or more oil holes on the big end or a long open slot for the oil to get to the bearings on both ends.
Also a nice true crank with a welded in pin will add to the durability as well as better crank bearings....
My first engine had toasted cranknand clutch bearings after only about 90 minutes total run time. The rod has no oil holes on the small end and none on the big end either... just a few grooves on the side of the rod so it was a good thing I decided not to use that crank setup after seeing the poor quality of everything.... the Dax bottom end I'm using now has nice oil holes on both ends of the rod, the good bearings already installed and a caged rod bearing... perfect for some trouble free upgrades.
 
I have two tricks up my sleave for Bonneville that I won't talk about on the public forum but would gladly PM about if anyone not competing in the same class is interested. We will hopefully be testing above the record speeds in the next two weeks on pavement. I really am not sure how much the salt is going to slow the bike down. I am wild guessing between 10 and 15 percent. To have a cushion I am going to try to reach 20 percent over the class records on pavement. I know I said in previous posts I was doing this for fun and the journey. That still holds true but I have gotten positive response from a couple potentiall sponsors and if I take them on I need to go out there intending to set a record. Still having fun, just a little more serious now.
 
I re packed the bearings with slippery grease, installed the 36 tooth, tried 3 different jets. Went out and ran it about 15 minutes holding it wide open to progressively higher speeds. Then broke another rear motor mount as the GPS was passing 46.3 and had to pull in the clutch and pull off the road. the motor flexed far enough down to bend the carb.

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Wow... did one of your mounts work loose? or did a bolt snap?
I got a few tricks up my sleeve for the rear mount so it's totally trouble free...
First, ditch that steel strap that holds the rear mount to the frame and replace it with a second aluminum mount block like the one that connects the engine to the frame. You can belt sand or mill these blocks way down either to set the engine closer to the seat post tube, not for clearance issues, but so you can also use shorter studs that can't bend or flex, then use a set of high grade studs and the double nut method to hold everything together. Once that's done, the engine will not move.

For the front mount, it's a little tricky because of so many different frame tube diameters and shapes, but if you can get a front mount like the ones MassDrive in here makes, it's a lot stronger and more rigid than those steel adapters and muffler type clamps. I can't see which type front mount you got for sure in the pic, but if it's the one that bolts a plate to the engine and uses a slightly offset muffler clamp it can flex under load and can't hold the engine in place if the rear mount does slip or fail to hold for any reason. You can replace that flimsy adapter plate with a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate stock and drill it up to fit on the engine and hold the clamp, or if steel is all you got or can get, I'd copy the existing plate in 3/16" steel. That'll eliminate that flex point.

I'm not sure what kind of tooling you got, but the strongest and most rigid way to mount is to weld tabs or brackets onto the frame and bolt the engine directly to the mount tabs.

I don't have any pics specifically of my rear mount, but you can see how I used 2 of the rear mount blocks to sandwitch the frame in this pic... This alone will hold the engine rigidly in place and you may also be able to see that I milled down the mount block on the engine side so it can use shorter studs but also because I needed as much clearance is I could get since this is a really small frame. I'll need to take better pics of my mounting system when I get the chance...

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Double stock blocks like you have is exactly how i planned the rear. What i had done temporarily for the rear was switch to grade 8.8 bolts then made an additional steel strap about twice as thick as the stock one to go around the seat tube, i had this doubled up over the stock piece. On the front i have a plate, my kit came with a really thick one for some reason and a very heavy U-bolt with one inch coupler nuts, the front is strong enough that the first time i broke a rear i rode home carefully on just the front mount. I am going to do the double rear block like you have and machine out the tube sides to correct the slight bit the angle is off that may be causing all this. I will try to post pics, it was too dark when i got home with it last night.
 
It doesn't look much different than a stock front mount but it is about twice as thick and a lot better metal. You can kind of see it in this pic. And that is a really heavy U-bolt around he frame not the stock one.

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That shouldn't move or flex... and if you rode home on just the front mount, then it's definitely strong enough, just gotta beef up the rear mount either like I did with double stock blocks or whatever else you can make work. The idea is to have both mounts strong and rigid enough to be able to hold everything without the need for the second mount, but use both mounts and that thing shouldn't be able to move at all once fully installed.
When done, you should be able to push on the head from the side really hard and nothing should move. I've been looking for a way to make a head mount bracket to tie the engine rigid to all 3 frame tubes, which would make for an extremely solid setup. It would be real easy to devise a way to make a head mount with the head you're using but with a Fred head I would have to machine down 1 or 2 of the fins just in front of or behind the head studs to get a strong enough piece of steel or aluminum flat stock to mount to the head, and longer studs would also be needed. That would make the frame even more rigid and also dampen out even more vibration since all 3 frame tubes would absorb the vibes instead of the seat post and lower tube. A top mount would also have to be designed in a way that it could be easily installed and removed in case the jug ever needed to be removed while the engine is installed in the frame.
 
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