3 piece wide crank set won't tighten without crushing bearings

worksuxxx

worksuxxx

New Member
Ok, I have toasted two sets of crank bearings in under 12 hours. I can't seem to get the crank tight enough without allowing for any play. When I allow just a tad bit of play in the crank, I can turn the cranks with no resistance or noise. I tighten everything up, go ride, then its sloppy as ****, crazy amount of play. I go to tighten too tight to have not play, rotate the crank, too much resistance and crushes the bearing housing. This is the second crank set I have tried. This is going in a Huffy Newport if that matters. I am also using the adapters with this setup. I am using a heavy duty high temp grease for this, not specifically wheel bearing grease.
 
worksuxxx said:
Ok, I have toasted two sets of crank bearings in under 12 hours. I can't seem to get the crank tight enough without allowing for any play. When I allow just a tad bit of play in the crank, I can turn the cranks with no resistance or noise. I tighten everything up, go ride, then its sloppy as ****, crazy amount of play. I go to tighten too tight to have not play, rotate the crank, too much resistance and crushes the bearing housing. This is the second crank set I have tried. This is going in a Huffy Newport if that matters. I am also using the adapters with this setup. I am using a heavy duty high temp grease for this, not specifically wheel bearing grease.
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I think the adapters may be the issue. Go look at another bike that works well and ensure the lockring is on the correct side (non-bicycle side). Now look at your Newport. Same or swapped? If so, did you have to screw the bearing cups in AGAINST the normal rotation of the cranks or WITH the normal rotation of the cranks (as you ride).

If they are against, they are loosening as you ride.
 
Thanks for the quick reply. They are on correct. I am going to change out the adapter kit. With the chain side cup threaded in, it wobbles as if the threads are bad. Junk....
 
I just had this same issue with my 3 piece wide crank from a 4g kit I'm currently installing. I fixed it by turning both bearing packs around so that the metal ring that hold the ball bearings is against the shaft and the bearings are against the cups that I greased and screwed in. There is no play and the shaft makes much less noise and has less resistance. I tightened the cup with the lock ring (which is on the sprocket side)all the way and backed off 1/4 turn. Noted the position of the notches while I tightened the lock ring so I can readjust if it turns while tightened the ring. It works perfect now..
 
Your right, me thinks Jburr. Although it is some how counter intuitive, the bearings face inward.

Made me think of a post from way back;

someguy said:
....... I replaced the bearing cages backwards with the ball bearings facing out and promptly destroyed them. So remember, always protect your balls. Keep em facing in.

wut?
Click to expand...

LoL
 
jburr36 said:
..... the lock ring (which is on the sprocket side)..
Click to expand...

Is there something weird about these wide cranksets? Because I thought the lockring always goes on the non-bicycle side of a 3 pc crankset? Or maybe I'm wrong? Please set me straight if I am.
 
Dan said:
Your right, me thinks Jburr. Although it is some how counter intuitive, the bearings face inward.

Made me think of a post from way back;



LoL
Click to expand...

LOL! I tried them both ways. As I mentioned I faced them inward and felt a lot of resistance and hear some noise when I turned the shaft. When I loosened them up there was still noise and after about 20 turns of the crank the shat became very wobbly and an lot of play developed. When I turned the bearings around the shaft turned a lot smoother without the noise and no play at all.
 
atombikes said:
Is there something weird about these wide cranksets? Because I thought the lockring always goes on the non-bicycle side of a 3 pc crankset? Or maybe I'm wrong? Please set me straight if I am.
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I always thought that screwing the cups on towards the front (clockwise on the crank side and counter clockwise on the other side( would be better since they won't inadvertently unscrew as I pedaled down the road.
 
jburr36 said:
I always thought that screwing the cups on towards the front (clockwise on the crank side and counter clockwise on the other side( would be better since they won't inadvertently unscrew as I pedaled down the road.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're right. Also, if you put the locking ring on the bicycle side, it messes with the spacing for the cranks.

The problem with these cups provided with these kits (as I see it); in order to screw in the cups so they're tightening as you ride, the lockring has to be on the bicycle drive side.....which is wrong. I don't think it matters so much on wide cranks, but if it were a regular bike, that lockring spacing/thickness would probably interfere with the smallest ring.
 
Just installed another 4g kit last night. I got the crank nice and tight with no play. But a lot of resistance and noise. Had to take off pedal sprocket and after four taps on right crank with mallot to remove right crank it loosened the crank shaft. I think the threads are crap. Retighened and loctited but have not ridden yet. I know after first ride its gonna go loose. Other bike loosens every time I ride it.

So I reread the posts here. I can't seem to get it straight. I have the lock ring on the pedal side. Is this not correct?
 
worksuxxx said:
Just installed another 4g kit last night. I got the crank nice and tight with no play. But a lot of resistance and noise. Had to take off pedal sprocket and after four taps on right crank with mallot to remove right crank it loosened the crank shaft. I think the threads are crap. Retighened and loctited but have not ridden yet. I know after first ride its gonna go loose. Other bike loosens every time I ride it.

So I reread the posts here. I can't seem to get it straight. I have the lock ring on the pedal side. Is this not correct?
Click to expand...

When in doubt, go to the master Sheldon Brown.

http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom

scroll down to "bottom bracket". What we are discussing here is a cup and cone BB. In the pic it is the first one on the left. The lock ring is on the non-bicycle side. Also notice that on the Ashtabula crank, the lock ring is also on the non-bicycle drive side.

This is convention. Unfortunately, the 3 pc wide cranks I have force me to switch this around, which is why I'm thinking there's something wrong with them.
 
worksuxxx said:
Ok, I have toasted two sets of crank bearings in under 12 hours. I can't seem to get the crank tight enough without allowing for any play.
Click to expand...
The non-cartridge BB for 4-strokes is a royal pain to make go right, it is just a poor system design.
What seems to work is:
1. Make sure you have good solid bearing cups in the BB up flush against the frame before you even start.

2. Put the bearing holder part of the enclosed bearings to the inside in the cup.

3. Screw the right pedal side crank arm retaining nut in first all the way AND DON'T LET IT OR THE SHAFT MOVE AGAIN.

4. Put on the big left side ring up pretty snug but not tight enough to grip the crank shaft and then the really tricky part, you need to keep that but in place while you screw the retain nut up against with some good torque against each other to keep them from moving WITHOUT LETTING ANYTHING ELSE MOVE.

OR...
You could just replace those bearing cups with cartridge cups for $12.
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalo...ucts_id=104&osCsid=7il4bvtko24i4b5j9a8bo0stj2

Then put in a cartridge BB crank shaft wide enough for a 4-stroke for $15.
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/images/153mm-BB.jpg

Notch the shaft where you want your pedal sprocket to go and use the kits crank arms and be done with it.
 
OK. I just did two bikes with the bearings facing outward. Tightened perfectly without wobble. Been out riding and not coming loose. Did the lockring on the pedal side. Finally. I was getting very frustrated with this. The one bike I had been having problems with when I pulled the crank set apart the bearing housing was again crushed. I guess putting the bearings outward work so I'll be doing that from now on. If it's not the proper way I don't care, it works!
 
worksuxxx said:
OK. I just did two bikes with the bearings facing outward. Tightened perfectly without wobble. Been out riding and not coming loose. Did the lockring on the pedal side. Finally. I was getting very frustrated with this. The one bike I had been having problems with when I pulled the crank set apart the bearing housing was again crushed. I guess putting the bearings outward work so I'll be doing that from now on. If it's not the proper way I don't care, it works!
Click to expand...
Glad I could help ;-}
 
I just picked up some bearings today for tomorrow's build. I am gonna just put bearings in with no bearing cage. Interested in seeing how that works. I will post the results in a few days after some time on bike.
 
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