2 Friction Drives Compared

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Fonzz, May 25, 2012.

  1. Fonzz

    Fonzz New Member

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    Hello motor bike enthusiasts :)
    I am planning on adding a friction drive to my Electra Street Rod, choosing to go this route for simplicity and reliability.
    I was darn near ready to just order a friction kit from flmotorbikes until I saw the kit from dax. I have already decided to go with the Honda GX35 35.8 cc 1.60 Max HP Four Cycle engine with the 21.76 oz integrated fuel tank. I want that motor and no other for the Honda name, quietness, proven reliability and I think it just looks nice and also small. I see I could get that motor elsewhere for slightly less but if I get the drive kit from FL, I'd just get the motor from there also, for simplicity & the motor already attached etc.
    First off, can anyone tell me if that Honda motor will work with the dax friction drive and does it mount to it with the same ease as other motors, no modification needed? I sure hope so as I practically have my heart set on it.
    So, on to comparing the two drive kits...
    I see the dax kit comes with two rollers, a big plus. Also, the construction of the dax kit is described in more detail mentioning "2 Huge 6302 16x42x13mm main sealed bearings"

    1. Can the dax kit accommodate the Honda GX35 motor? The FL kit that works with the Honda motor apparently has a 76mm clutch rotor and a 70.7mm four-hole engine mounting bolt pattern.

    2. Does the dax kit have better bearings than the FL kit?

    3. How much time/effort is required to change the rollers on the dax kit? (I assume the FL kit cannot change rollers as I'd have to pick one or the other before ordering and it then comes pre-installed.)
    Edit: This video gives me the idea that I won't want to change rollers unless I'm thinking I should have gone with the other size in the first place, not just to change it for one day to accommodate some hill climbing and then reverse it later the same day = too much hassle (for me).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBJsKF5VzkY

    4. The dax site mentions copyrights on their kit, is the FL kit infringing on those copyrights?

    5. If I get the dax kit and Honda motor separately, will I need to get a kill switch and throttle cable separately as well?

    Also, I see the dax kit comes with two different sized u brackets and rubber paint protectors, and costs a little bit less. I'd like to get the dax kit if I can use it with the Honda GX35 without a difficult modification.

    Thanks in advance for your knowledge, thoughts and insight!
     
  2. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Active Member

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    #2 MotorBicycleRacing, May 25, 2012
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  3. Ibedayank

    Ibedayank New Member

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    Statons kits you can change the bearings without a gear puller

    Dax you need a puller and they use the same bearing
     
  4. Fonzz

    Fonzz New Member

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    Thanks for the replies MotorBicycleRacing and Ibedayank

    I confirmed that the Honda GX35 would indeed work with the Dax kit so I ordered it and also the motor, separately, from the smallenginewarehouse.
    Looking forward to putting it together!
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Cool Fonzz, (er, you know what I mean)

    Is almost torture waiting for parts but makes it a great day when those boxes show up
     
  6. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    It seems some confusion or perhaps just misinfo has become standard on this topic. This is what I've witnessed over the years. Staton Inc since 1984 was the originator of this aluminum channel linage of friction drives and are manufactured by his small shop and made in the USA. (from what I see flmotorbikes is a reseller of Staton). BMP copied Staton and jobbed out the manufacturing to local shops in the US but went out of business trying to compete in price wars with others who again copied the same basic design and went off-shore for cheap manufacturing.

    It might be instructive to look up the definition and differences between copyright and patent http://www.lawmart.com/forms/difference.htm to see just how ludicrous it is when misapplied, poetic license on marketing and showmanship aside.
     
    #6 happyvalley, May 29, 2012
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  7. NEAT TIMES

    NEAT TIMES New Member

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    IMO

    The Dax friction, the drive rollers slide onto a 1/2" drive shaft. The 1.25" roller has a one way bearing inside of it. The smaller roller has set screws to secure it to the drive shaft.

    If the Dax 1/2 drive shaft stuck out about 7/16 of an inch on the right hand side of the channel, then the right hand shaft bearing could be held in with a split collar and rollers changed quickly. The bearing hole is 1 & 3/8" dia. and the large roller is 1& 1/4" dia.

    That is how my diy friction drives are set up. With the 49cc Titan 4 strokes (from Dax) the 1&1/4" roller gives 35 mph.

    My diy friction drives have the motor mounted against the channel, not sticking out from the channel almost 1 inch.

    I believe the Staton rollers and shafts are one piece.

    Ron ..cvlt1
     
    #7 NEAT TIMES, May 29, 2012
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  8. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Ron!!! Hey Mon, how are ya?
     
  9. BigBlue

    BigBlue New Member

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  10. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    No argument there, friction drives are one of the oldest applications for transfer of power and highlighted on that eBike version at the link you posted with the patent schematic from 1899.

    But strictly speaking, I wasn't referring to the patent process or it's justification in my comments above but more toward the mention of a mechanical device being described as.....copyrighted....by a vendor and the subsequent confusion it fosters as shown in the opening of this thread.
    To me, that's patently misleading.
     
  11. BigBlue

    BigBlue New Member

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    I agree with you on the second point.

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
  12. NEAT TIMES

    NEAT TIMES New Member

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    Just an after thought.

    The one way free wheeling 1 1/4" roller`s are from a electric friction drive system. I purchased 10 of then in 2008 from a surplus dealer online. They come with a shaft that sticks out a little on each side of roller and have a slot in each end for some type of mounting.

    Hi danny 2 stroke. Did you get the pics i sent?

    Ron
     
  13. Fonzz

    Fonzz New Member

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    I now have the Dax friction drive kit with the 1.25 roller installed. When new, the 1.25 roller would free spin in one direction (with the one way bearings). Now, I noticed it has somehow "frozen" onto the shaft and now behaves as a regular roller that is attached to the inner shaft.
    When I first received the kit, the 1.25 roller had spacers on both sides with those little locking allen set screws and they were loose. After installation, I went ahead and moved the spacers inward towards the centered roller and tightened the set screws.
    When my friction drive started making strange new noises upon deceleration, I investigated and found the now locked condition. Tried loosening the spacers to no avail. I used a flat head screwdriver between the spacers and the roller to try and budge it but it's stuck at this point.
    I told myself no biggie cause the 1 inch roller is locked all the time too, but I would really like to have it operating as designed.
    Has anybody running a friction drive had this happen to their 1.25" roller?
     
  14. b007dep1

    b007dep1 New Member

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    I've been driving the friction drive Staton for 8 years and it is a great kick. The Robin Subaru did me WAY better then the Honda GX 35 which I had to send back after a year or so for repair the Robin Subaru has never failed and works great in this application. I just received a www.ezcruizer.com the 07 4 stroke bike and after that you will never want to go back changing back tires and stuff which you have to do quite a bit with friction drive. The 4 stroke chain bike hardly ever gets a flat or that's how mine is and after 7 months or so the only problem is you need heavy duty spokes in the back wheel, actually every gas bike should install the heavy spokes the regular ones will go down on you; I weigh 160 and had to do this on both bikes. It is the most fun a person can have to me, it took about 8 years to get the friction drive bike perfect in every way but the ez cruizer really blows all the others that I've ridden out of the water no mixing oil and it goes like a bat out of ****. Honda GX35 and Robin Subaru are 4 stroke also so no mixing oil. dance1
     
  15. b007dep1

    b007dep1 New Member

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    PS Staton stuff may be the most reliable anywhere I never had a hint of a problem with any part of his kit and there are a bunch of miles on mine. 8 years worth of all year riding.
     
  16. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Active Member

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    I like Staton friction drives too. I got 3500 miles on a Robin Subaru.

    However my bearings are trashed and the friction roller is pretty worn.
     
  17. b007dep1

    b007dep1 New Member

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    Probably isn't too much cost to deal with I would think. Staton has always helped me if I called his place.
     
  18. b007dep1

    b007dep1 New Member

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    PS this is the most wicked one I ever saw for 900 or so bucks ASSEMBLED. Someone with ambition can do it their self but the bike and motor they use seem to really work.
    www.ezcruizer.com I have had it for around 7 or 8 months only problem was getting heavier spokes on the back wheel. It's really a fun ride. I have the 4 stroke gas bike 07.
     

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