she won't fire up :(

[AH64Apache]

Hi Folks,
OK I'm finally breaking down and asking for help. I'm stubborn and like to figure things out for myself. Anyway, I installed the Black Stallion 80cc kit on my mountain bike. I've been trying to get it started for about a week now. I tried some things I found here in the forums, but she still won't fire.
Here's what I did just last night. I adjusted the clutch via the "flower nut". Didn't fire but sounded better. Thought it might be flodded so I went through the technique described by Mark (I think) in a post somewhere here to clear the engine. Almost sounded like it was going to start after that. So, I thought I had too much grease in the gears, which I did. So I took off the flower nut and clutch plate. Cleaned the clutch plate and pads (also scapred out extra grease). After I did that and tried to start. It sounded like the motor was working now, but just not firing. So I changed out the spark plug. Still nothing. I changed out the plug on the ignition coil. Still not firing. Then while trying to start it, the chain came off twice, which never happened the 20-30 times before. So now is my clutch too tight? Also, on the last attempt, I think the throttle came loose, or broke because now it twists all the way around So I gave up last night and drank heavily Plus as old as I am climbing back up the hill to my house 20 times a night with the bike & motor is getting tiring! Tonight I'll probably take a break from it and go fishing instead after work. Relax, fish and have a few Rolling Rocks!!
Anyway, any idea what it might be? How do you test to see if its getting a spark? Speaking of which. This doesn't seem normal/right to me. The plug that goes on the top of the spark plug does not/will not snap/fit on the top of the sparkplug. Is that normal? To me it doesn't seem right, but what do I know,, I'm new to this.
Also, for priming that motor, I heard they're easy to flood. But then I read that a guy didn't get his to fire until he held down the primer button for a few seconds, twice. I'm just "tapping" mine twice, but I also tried his method. So I'm guessing every engine is a bit different as far as that goes? How much do you prime? I can here the gas going in when I push the primer button. Also, is the choke needed when the motor is cold, but the outside temp is between 60-70 degrees? I tried up, down, middle. Hopefully I didn't leave anything out. Maybe its the throttle? The cable was installed from the factory, so I didnt ever mess with that.
Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks so much!
Joe

 

[AH64Apache]

PS. I also tried it w/o the kill switch wire,, and checked the wiring.

 

[bodydropped]

i had the same issue with my black stallion kit. what i ended up doing was peddeling the bike releasing the cluth and reaching down and moving the clutch shaft outward away from the motor with a slight twist on the throttle and mine fired but i had to keep peddling until it woke up a bit .it sounds iffy but its not to hard to do after a week of riding it started to fire on its own.try it and let me know. good luck.

 

[Ilikeabikea]

Pull the plug out and with the plug wire attached to the plug get someone to spin the back tire while holding plug against the engine and see if the plug is firing. It might be easier see in the dark. Thats where I would start...................

 

[Cabinfever1977]

unscrew the tiny metal tip on the sparkplug and then put the cap on it,now it will fit perfect.

 

[AH64Apache]

Thanks guys! I'll give that stuff a shot. I'm willing to try anything
Why don't they tell ya to unscrew the top of the plug in the instructions? Or do they and I missed that part? I'm usualy very good following instructions.

 

[TheE]

I had that problem with the throttle breaking too. The little nib on the underside of the throttle that fits into a hole in your handlebar snaps off very easily. I just drove a huge assed screw in there, and now it stays put =D

 

[Cabinfever1977]

they dont tell you to unscrew the tip of the plug in all the manuals but one that i found(i forget which one) but i had to look it up online when my cap didnt fit the plug and i was wondering why.

 

[unior]

Relax, fish and have a few Rolling Rocks!!


Yes!

 

[freewheeling frank]

ya it is friday payday not working on anything tonite except a few barleypops!

 

[AH64Apache]

HA HA! drink up guys. Sorry I don't have high speed internet at home, so just seeing this now. Anyway, I honestly don't think its getting a spark, but hard to test that myself, which I tried. I think its the ignition coil, so I ordered another one. If thats not it, then its back to square 1. I did try 3 new spark plugs. Also rechecked the wire connections. I did fix the throttle, and the chain from falling off. The chain pully thing loosened, so I just readjusted and tightened very well this time. I did also pull the cover off where the magnito is, and that looks connected. I'll let ya know what happens when I get the new ignition coil.
Ride on my friends!!
Thanks!

 

[Junster]

Benjamin Franklin said, "Beer is the proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy"

 

[MikeJ]

Here is another item to check... Another writer had very similar symptoms. (I know these symptoms firsthand myself.) His fix action was to loosen up the clutch cable. His clutch cable was so tight that the engine would spin if the plug was out to check for spark. But if the plug was in, the compression caused the clutch to slip. To the writer, it sounded like the crankshaft was spinning normally. It was not. So ensure the clutch arm has a little bit of free wiggle when your hand is off the clutch lever. This free wiggle will allow full clutch plate engagement and will spin the crankshaft as the designers intended.

Let us know what happens next.

 

[AH64Apache]

Thanks!! I'll give that a try tonight, and let ya know tomorrow. I'll bet it is tight. I'm still waiting for the ignition coil anyway. Its backordered, although when I ordered it, it didn't show as being back ordered. So I was a little upset about that with the web site.
Anyway, I'll adjust the cable and let ya know if that was it.
Thanks Again! I do appreciate all of the ideas and help!

 

[MikeJ]

AH -

Another note... I read where you took your clutch flower nut off. From personal experience, ensure the flower nut has only three, maybe four (maximum) threads showing when you tightened it down upon the threaded clutch shaft. From experience, if more than four thread are visible, the clutch will slip when the lever has nothing holding it in. To tighten (if necessary): Use a bungee cord, zip tie, something to hold the lever in while you tighten that flower nut down real tight. (Anyway, that's the way it was on my engine.) Then release the clutch lever and check the clutch arm for free wiggle. A sixteenth of an inch or so is fine. Replace the covers. Check fuel petcock position to open; press primer button once or twice and try riding it. FYI.... My engine is a pain to start unless I try spinning the engine WITH choke for a couple of seconds. Then I try WITHOUT choke. That helps me.

I wish you luck!
MikeJ

 

[AH64Apache]

Thanks Mike! I'll give that a look tonight. I fixed the clutch lever, so now it has some play, but I still couldn't get it started. I did receive the ignition coil, so I also replaced that, and she still wont start. I guess I have a really "quirky" engine. But after all I've read, this post and others,, its "probably" the clutch setting. Just really frustrating. You would think they'd be ready to go out of the box,, but I guess these engines don't work that way. Each time I think I got it,, I tell myself, OK, its gonna start this time,, and then failure Anyway,, onward & upward,, I'll let ya know what happens.
I do really appreciate all the help!!

 

[MikeJ]

AH -

MAN! That is one frustrating experience you are going through! Here is one last equally-quirky troubleshooting thought... Put your bike up on a stand of some kind so that at least the back wheel is off the ground. Let's assume you have it at a comfortable height. (I use two wood strips across a table top, and place them under the extreme ends of the horizontal bar. They support the bike off the ground. )

Remove the plate off the magneto and the plate off the small diameter chain sprocket. By default, the clutch will be fully engaged. Use a 14 mm wrench to turn the magneto in the clockwise direction a few revolutions. The toothed sprocket should turn at 1/4 the speed at all times, in a forward pulling direction (counterclockwise). Removing the chain off the sprocket would be a good idea.

Here is the quirky part... If you have a 14 mm socket, use that and a variable-speed drill to turn the magneto nut in the clockwise direction. If you turn it fast enough (usually well within the speed of most 3/8 inch 120v drills), the magneto can produce spark. If that clutch is slipping, you should see that at the drive sprocket.

Note this warning.... If you use a 15 mm socket (or too big a fractional socket) and the drill, you will round off the edges of the nut. That nut was never designed nor hardened to tolerate the violent compression phase. If the engine does fire, it will spin faster than the nut and the nut will unscrew itself off of the magneto shaft / crankshaft. It will probably fall to the floor. The first time I did this technique with a 15 mm socket, I rounded off the nut. With a 14 mm socket, the nut unscrewed itself, and the only way to stop the engine was to pull the sparkplug cap off the sparkplug. But I got the foolish engine started. (That is a 8mm x 1mm pitch nut if you ever have to replace it.) I doubt any professional engine builder will endorse this method.

I just remembered... I made an adapter out of a socket extension I had to cut up to fit my drill. If you don't have anything like that, maybe a speed wrench will help you.

I hope you have success soon! Maybe those magneto parts will be the answer. I take it the wiring is correct and nothing is shorting to the frame. I am out of ideas.

MikeJ

 

[MikeJ]

AH -

One more thought before you remove the chain.... My previous long text describes a way to start the engine with no load on it.

Here, make the piston compression phase a load on the clutch: Take off the magneto cover but keep the chain and clutch intact. While riding the bike slowly, engage the clutch and see if the magneto is turning at a fast pace. If it is turning a fast and constant speed, the clutch is not slipping. If the magneto appears jumpy, the clutch is slipping. From your seated position, the magneto may be hard to see. Maybe an assistant is available to ride or watch?

I wish you luck!

MikeJ

 

[AH64Apache]

Thanks Mike!! I'll mess with the clutch a little more after work this week. If I don't get her to pop I'll try your last post first, and then the previous post as the last resort. It does sound a bit dangerous But I'd have to make a good bike stand. I actually tried to find one, but I live in the middle of nowhere. I even drove down to the "big city" and checked Wal-Mart, and the Ace Hardware,, but they don't sell em. Anyway I appreciate the help!! Thanks!

 

[Bikedad1]

I had the same problem and after checking everything I found that the clutch actuator lever wasnt being pushed all the way back out by the spring. How I tested it was to get on the bike get going pretty good and release the clutch and then reach down and push it out all the way by hand and magically the thing fire up! I hope it works for you soon.......dont give up!