she won't fire up :(

[AH64Apache]

Hi Guys,
I haven't had much time lately to work on it,, just a few hours off & on. Been working crazy hours etc. I still need to make a bike stand. One thing I pretty much know for sure that its Not the coil. I bought another one, which I received and installed,, didn't help, and then a week later they sent me another one for no apearent reason. So I figured, maybe they had a "bad batch" realized it and sent me a new on. But that one didn't help either. One question I do have is how fast do I need to be going to get it started. I've been trying between 5-10 mph. Is that to slow? I figure if I can get it on a stand it might be easier to start the first time. Anyway, I guess its either the magneto or clutch. I did also try pushing out the clutch lever manually, but unfortunately that didn't help. I'm determined to get this beast of an engine running b4 the snow comes!! I was planning on using it all summer, but running out of time now.
Thanks so far for all the help!!!!!! It really is appreciated!!
Joe

 

[AH64Apache]

Well, I did get the bike up on a makeshift stand. I do know for sure now that its getting a spark. Ouch I didn't know I'd get a shock holding the spark plug. Anyway, since its getting a spark, I guess its the clutch, or maybe not just getting gas. I bought the gas line recomended in the instructions, so over the weekend I'm just going to try the gas line that came with the kit. I'll let you know if I EVER get this %$#$&* thing started.

 

[MikeJ]

Hi AH64 Apache -

I'm happy to see you are still at it.

If you get spark, your clutch is engaging well. The magneto to produce the spark is directly mounted to the crankshaft, so your crankshaft and piston are moving at a good speed. When the sparkplug is threaded in, you should experience a good amount of resistance to crankshaft spinning. Make sure your plug gap is pretty small, the thickness of a credit card maybe. If too wide, the plug may not fire. Compressed air is a hinderance to spark plug firing, so help the plug do its job.

When the sparkplug is out, spin the engine a few cycles, then stop. Up close, you should be able to get a strong smell of gasoline.

If the smell is weak or not there, try a couple of suggestions to find a blockage: Remove the hose from the carb fuel intake brass fitting. When the fuel tank fuel valve is open, gasoline should flow out at the rate of an ounce every few seconds; faster than a fast drip, don't expect a deluge. (I found I had to point the fuel valve lever toward the carb, else no fuel flow.)

If fuel flows, remove two screws holding the carb bowl on. There should be gas in the bowl. If not, look at the brass tube for a blockage. Once you have the bowl off and gas is there, use a small wrench to remove the main jet/atomizer brass piece. You should be able to see light through it. If not, try blowing through it. Maybe a sewing needle or really thin wire to clear. Replace when clear. Re-attach bowl.

If your air filter is off for testing, you should be able to see the carb slide move up and down as you twist the throttle. If not, that needs reassembly. There should always be a little gap at the bottom of the slide. That gap is adjusted by the idle screw. A little gap is needed to allow the engine to idle. More gap means higher idle. Make sure the air filter is not blocked. I don't know how that could happen, but I would check it anyway. Replace it back on.

One last thought: Use a hair dryer to preheat the engine. Because the fuel has to go into the crankcase and around a mass of metal, maybe the fuel just needs some initial help remaining in a vapor state.

Maybe other readers have more ideas. I also have an engine that is hard to start when it is cold. I don't know why. But after a few successful fires, it will continue to run. After the engine case and cylinder is warm, it starts easily.

MikeJ

 

[MikeJ]

Another thought.... As remote as it might be, verify the muffler is not blocked.

We wish you luck.

MikeJ

 

[AH64Apache]

Mike,
Thanks for all the great advice, and vote of confidence I'll check out all that stuff this weekend. The help is truly greatly appreciated!!!

Joe

 

[AH64Apache]

Whooooo Hooooooo!

She finally fired up!!! First off, getting the back wheel an inch off the ground helped a lot! I made a bike stand, by sliding a heavy duty board under the back rack, and put both ends on a table. So here's what I did per Mikes suggestions.
Checked for spark, have spark, but I did replace it with a NKG.
Checked the fuel flow from the gas tank to the carb, that was good.
Removed the carb bowl, there was fuel in there.
Removed the air cleaner, tested the throttle, no movement.
Removed the innards, reset everything, still not moving.
Checked the throttle handle, the barrel on the cable was not connected correctly. BTW I'll get back to this. The throttle handle that came with it seems like a POS.
So with all of that set tried it again, still wouldn't fire.
So I move on to the muffler. Oh I also relocated the wire for the kill switch.
I removed the muffler. Still no good. So I thought maybe it was flooded. Turned off the fuel. Tried to start a couple of times, then all of the sudden it started to pop! So I put the muffler back on. Didn't prime, choke off, tried to start and she finally fired up!!! I'm not sure what it was, probably a combination of a few things, as well as just getting it started the first time, plus I "guess" I might have been flooding it. Anyway, she starts up fine everytime now.
Back to the throttle. I went for a couple of test rides, doing fine for a few miles, but the throttle keeps coming loose where the barrell attaches inside the throttle handle. The plastic in there is kinda torn up. Does someone make a decent throttle handle? Or has anyone else run into this and have a fix? I don't want to start riding it to work until I get that fixed. I live in the middle of nowhere and town is 6 miles away. In any case, now she's starting everytime, and cruising without peddling is Fantastic
Thanks so much to everyone for all of your help & suggestions!!! I learned a lot about these engines from you guys.


Thanks again very much!!!!
Joe

 

[MB-Monkey]

ah a good throttle is important to any build. Might I suggest a couple of things. I like to find the local scooter repair shop and raid their junk yard. Many times you can find pure magic in the piles of crap. I have found usable throttles with full size mirror mounts on them makes a great addition. Measure the size of your handlebars to make sure they match. The other suggestion i would make is to take the throttle to a mini bike dealer and see what options he has. You can always rig a kill switch up away from the throttle. Good luck

 

[MikeJ]

WOOHOO!

Good for you! With tweaking and maybe a few replacement parts, you should start have a good time!

I also learned why my bike is always so hard to start... I have been flooding the engine by pressing the primer button too much and using the choke lever. Another fellow rider never touches the primer button or lever and never has problems starting his engine.

Again, Good for You!
MikeJ

 

[Bushpig]

The only issues I ever had with My "Hardley Davidson" was my coil wire (not the one to the plug, but the supply wire off the engine) came unplugged, you'd never know to look at it due to the sleeve its in. I peddled up and down over hells half acre trying to get some spark, after relaxing to a wobblypop or two, I went back through it and noticed the wire had shifted. I also had trouble with a faulty plug wire that caused the same issue,I just replaced it with my old snowmobile plug wire...

 

[AH64Apache]

Mike, Thanks Again! Yours and every one elses help, did help & I learned a lot. Bushpig. I know what you mean! Before I fashioned a bike stand, it was a PITA. I live on a hill about a 40 degree hill. Going down was no problem, but going back up every time ( and there were LOTS) was a pain and tiring for an "old man"!
I came up with an idea about the throttle. Until I can order a new one Friday when I get paid, I'm going to try and make a little plate to cover the "barrell" that attaches to the cable inside the handle, to see if that will keep it in place. Not sure if it'll work, or just jam it up. But its worth a shot!

 

[Bushpig]

Generally when your throttle cable pops in the twist grip, its because the little lead ball or keeper has snapped, use a spare bicycle cable (gear shift, brake ect) I have replaced mine in this manner a few times...

 

[Bushpig]

I,ve always just used a spare brake or shift cable from one of the many bikes the kids don't use anymore

 

[AH64Apache]

the barrell/keeper is still attached,, it just keeps slipping out of the plastic retainer. But thanks,, I'll keep that in mind! I have a spare bike.

 

[Bushpig]

I see, sounds like your keeper has been stretched out of shape, pull off the throttle assembly, two screws, see if you cannot (very gently, with a small propane torch ect) Heat the retainer up a bit and reform the plastic housing that the barrel/keeper sits in. If not, see if you can form a new retainer out of a plastic bottle to wrap around the barrel large enough to hold it in its cup.

 

[AH64Apache]

yup,, the plastic keeper is "hosed". I was gonna try to regroove it with a dremmel tool. Thats a good idea about fashioning a keeper from a plastic bottle. Thanks!!!

 

[Bushpig]

Glad to help my friend, I have found over the years, that sometimes the most simple of repairs will get you up and running, reliably, until you can replace said part. I have been running Argo's since 1976, I love em, but they are very labour intensive and you need to always think outside the box to get yourself out of a sticky situation.

 

[Bushpig]

I would also suggest just looking for an after market twist grip, just make sure of the tube size (outside diameter) on your handle bars, would probably be easier than trying to replace with O.E.M (original equipment manufactured) parts. I don't know what its like getting parts for one of these motorized bicycles in your area but I'm sure I have the only one in the area up here.

 

[AH64Apache]

yep,, I just found a decent one on pistonbikes.com,, only $14 for a chrome one,, the OEM is $13. I must have messed up the old one with all of the time I spent trying to get the darn thing started. So I'm gonna order one on Friday when I get paid. I litteraly live in the middle of nowhere,,, no bike stores around for about 40 miles. I do most of my shopping online. Its 30 like miles to Walmart. Anyway, I'm gonna give that plastic bottle idea a shot until then. Thanks Again

 

[Bushpig]

Yes, play around a little, its only a grooved channel with a hole or cup to retain the barrel, you may even be able to grind a new cup under the old, just loosen the throttle cable off of the carb first, as this step will shorten it somewhat. For what its worth, I believe there is enough room in the throttle assembly that with some fine,(snare wire ect) wire, you could melt a couple of small pin holes through your busted assembly and actually wire the barrel assembly into its respective place without affecting its mobility. Best of luck.

 

[AH64Apache]

I like that idea of wiring it in! Thanks! I like to tinker anyway. I build static & RC planes/helicopters. So I do like working with my hands, fixing stuff and trying to figure out resolutions to problems.