Can't get it to start first time, new build.

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greenrider

New Member
Jul 31, 2013
17
17
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57
Oklahoma
Hi guys, my first post here.

First off my kit and bike. The kit was bought on Amazon, is a Frederimo 78.5cc/100cc (50mm bore x 40mm stroke) 2-stroke kit, with a Speed carb (with the red cover), needle clip set halfway, cdi with red boot (if that matters), wired black magneto to black cdi wire and red magneto to red cdi with blk/blue kill switch wires, isolated/taped off white wire, magneto red to black wires tested at 342 ohms, Jingying Z4C plug, flat top, single piece jug, w/ fresh aprox 18:1 gas mix, on a Kent Bayside cruiser frame w/44t sprocket. Where the spark plug passes through the fins is really crappy looking.

The problem(s): The first couple attempts to start the engine ended with the second attempt with it on full choke minus about a tenth open, it starting and running for maybe 20 seconds and died. I've made several attempts over several days since, and never got it to fire up again, but I'm fat, getting old, hate the heat and it's hot. But I have managed to make at least a half a dozen to a dozen attempts a day over the past several days with no joy. The most it is doing is it acts like it's getting fire, because it'll pop about every half second for a little bit as I'm pedaling, for maybe 5 seconds and it'll stop trying. I thought I had it whooped today when I went out to get myself some starting fluid, cuz I did one other build over a decade ago, and as I recall, and I know it's not a good idea, I got it started on the first time using starting fluid. I couldn't find any starting fluid but I got some carburetor cleaner, because it works almost just good and it's also useful for, cleaning carburetors. I even completely pulled off the cover with the filter off the carburetor so that I could spray directly into the throat of the carburetor, and it made absolutely no difference and was only doing like it did before of trying fire maybe a dozen times in five or six seconds and then stop.

Anything just jump out at any of you guys that might be the problem?
Thanks for your time.
 

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
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18:1 is too much oil.

Clean the spark plug & use 32:1

Here's a little trick I use to get difficult bikes started...
Find a long hill & roll down it while holding the throttle about 1/2 open; then reach over with the left hand & slowly move the choke lever up & down until you find the sweet spot & the engine starts coming to life.

Then, ride the bike at Wide Open Throttle to get it cleared out & warmed up.



Also... The engine will never start if the choke lever is all the way on.... (about 1/2 - 3/4 is the sweet spot).
 

greenrider

New Member
Jul 31, 2013
17
17
3
57
Oklahoma
18:1 is too much oil.

Clean the spark plug & use 32:1

Here's a little trick I use to get difficult bikes started...
Find a long hill & roll down it while holding the throttle about 1/2 open; then reach over with the left hand & slowly move the choke lever up & down until you find the sweet spot & the engine starts coming to life.

Then, ride the bike at Wide Open Throttle to get it cleared out & warmed up.



Also... The engine will never start if the choke lever is all the way on.... (about 1/2 - 3/4 is the sweet spot).
Thanks man, that sounds like good advice. I've read before how folks emphasize the importance of speed when you're trying to do a first start, I'll give that a try, although I may have to try to rig some kind of extension onto the choke, as I'm fat and old and clumsy, and I'm afraid if I try and reach across with my left hand to get a hold of the choke, I might wind up doing a bad imitation of Evel Knievel. lol
Also, do you recommend 32:1 just for the break-in period, or all the time? I'll let you know how it goes, thanks again, I appreciate it.
From everything you have tried I would change the spark plug, sometimes that’s all that is needed.
Thanks Gregg, I was thinking that too, and just ordered a multi-pack of Ngk-BR6HS from amazon.
 

greenrider

New Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Oklahoma
BR7HS .028 gap. is the plug for a 100cc
Thanks Mossy, I had already ordered a pack of NGK-BR6HS from amazon, but I'll order a br7hs as well, and gap appropriately. I thought the br6hs was the right plug, I think from looking at a cross-reference chart using the L4C that came with it.
Isn't the br6hs just a little hotter plug than the br7hs, with all the other specs identical?
Thanks again.
 

Mossy

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May 20, 2022
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Br6hs is for the 66/80cc engines the 7 for the 100 and performance builds can go 8 or 9 heat range...
100 going to want 24:1 oil after breaking in... Your 18:1 is fine for breaking in... Because the 100 runs hotter and doesn't have the cooling with the 1 piece jug... People have been running the 66/80 for decades and assume all the new 100-85 stuff is the same but they aren't
The 49mm is the same cylinder as the 66/80 and would require a 7 plug because the cooling fins are the same but the piston is bigger... The temperature of the engines and the air around it has to do with it... A 6 in a 100 is good for the winter on a 100 and breaking in with extra oil or a spare in a pinch...
 
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Mossy

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Lean-Spark-Plug-Reading-Chart.jpg
Spark plug will tell you if it's too cold or hot... Similar to tuning a carb though trial and error eventually you get everything together...
 
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Mossy

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Make sure the mag and magnet have the thickness of a business card all the way around it... If you just got it should have a 2 wire fat mag if it's 3 wire one there's an upgrade for that when in goes out...
The 2 wire has more windings = better spark it doesn't matter where you get from this place sells both and the red wire mag is the one to get... Eventually they all will be 2 wire but there's a lot of junk out there these companies don't want to get stuck with... CDH power is the place to get replacement parts from... The last few years these engines have had some major changes with the design and quality has gotten better you just have to dig around to find it...
 

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Greg58

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May 1, 2011
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I get ngk boots at our local motorcycle dealer for around $3, you cut the stock boot off and screw the new one on. As Mossy said the stock boot on some cdi units are not made well.
 
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Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
7,274
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Los Angeles, CA.
Thanks man, that sounds like good advice. I've read before how folks emphasize the importance of speed when you're trying to do a first start, I'll give that a try, although I may have to try to rig some kind of extension onto the choke, as I'm fat and old and clumsy, and I'm afraid if I try and reach across with my left hand to get a hold of the choke, I might wind up doing a bad imitation of Evel Knievel. lol
Also, do you recommend 32:1 just for the break-in period, or all the time? I'll let you know how it goes, thanks again, I appreciate it.
32:1 is a good mix, & it's OK to keep using after break in; or you can switch to 40:1 (like I do).
For break-in, ride it like you stole it!!! Get that engine hot with lots of 'Wide Open Throttle' riding!!!

The NGK BR6HS is a perfect 'all around' plug for these engines... The #7 plug is for summer riding in 110*+ heat; #5 is for winter riding.
 
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Mossy

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May 20, 2022
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32:1 is a good mix, & it's OK to keep using after break in; or you can switch to 40:1 (like I do).
For break-in, ride it like you stole it!!! Get that engine hot with lots of 'Wide Open Throttle' riding!!!

The NGK BR6HS is a perfect 'all around' plug for these engines... The #7 plug is for summer riding in 110*+ heat; #5 is for winter riding.
I agree with this on a 66/80cc... Everything bigger go colder and more oil... Rich on the carb... Especially the china kit carb because they run rich lean rich with only a main jet... It's not a big deal just a little insurance on hotter running engines... Maxima castor oil is the best oil
Screenshot_20230711-235734.png
Screenshot_20230711-235621.png
check out la hover on utube
 

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greenrider

New Member
Jul 31, 2013
17
17
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Oklahoma
32:1 is a good mix, & it's OK to keep using after break in; or you can switch to 40:1 (like I do).
For break-in, ride it like you stole it!!! Get that engine hot with lots of 'Wide Open Throttle' riding!!!

The NGK BR6HS is a perfect 'all around' plug for these engines... The #7 plug is for summer riding in 110*+ heat; #5 is for winter riding.
That makes sense, thanks
 

greenrider

New Member
Jul 31, 2013
17
17
3
57
Oklahoma
I agree with this on a 66/80cc... Everything bigger go colder and more oil... Rich on the carb... Especially the china kit carb because they run rich lean rich with only a main jet... It's not a big deal just a little insurance on hotter running engines... Maxima castor oil is the best oil View attachment 113990 View attachment 113991 check out la hover on utube
Cool, I'll check out the videos. Thanks for the recommendation of the Maxima castor oil, as I hope to get a lot of miles out of this build.
 

greenrider

New Member
Jul 31, 2013
17
17
3
57
Oklahoma
Make sure the mag and magnet have the thickness of a business card all the way around it... If you just got it should have a 2 wire fat mag if it's 3 wire one there's an upgrade for that when in goes out...
The 2 wire has more windings = better spark it doesn't matter where you get from this place sells both and the red wire mag is the one to get... Eventually they all will be 2 wire but there's a lot of junk out there these companies don't want to get stuck with... CDH power is the place to get replacement parts from... The last few years these engines have had some major changes with the design and quality has gotten better you just have to dig around to find it...
I'll check that magneto spacing, and I'll check out CDH power. I have the 3 wire, but most of what I've read recommends clipping off the white wire and taping the end. I think I heard all the white wireless good for is cheap little headlights more running lights, and if you put too much of a load on to kill the engine. I definitely want to upgrade to a two wire, especially with them being better made, like you said.
Thanks
 

greenrider

New Member
Jul 31, 2013
17
17
3
57
Oklahoma
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the responses to my question from all the knowledgeable people here in the forum. I'm learning a lot fast from y'all.
Thank you all for your time and generosity.