Misfit Board Tracker

[PeteMcP]

Following along with interest, Ralph. 170mm dropout measurement is common fat tyre frame width.
Month or so back I followed up a link for this frame/tank on AliExpress who were listing it as having no minimum order quantity. I identified the frame as being the same one offered as a roller by cnol in their eBay listings. As a satisfied customer of cnol's, I have no issues with the quality of the frame/tank/forks they sell (but we all know they are not the manufacturers). The AE seller emailed me back saying they presently had no inventory but were aiming to have stocks in time for the big China Expo in March. I received an email from them today saying that despite Corona virus pandemic, the Expo was still scheduled to go ahead. Presumably, production is gearing up for this event. AE's listed pricing/shipping from China to me in the UK was very competitive.
Imagine this frame mated with one of those scaled-down 70% vintage looking 350cc v-twin motors...

 

[curtisfox]

Look at this 212 build, give you some what idea of gear ratio. https://motorbicycling.com/threads/1912-excelsior-tribute.64296/ Also Mr.B’s Excelsier 09 build .............Curt

 

[MotoMagz]

Here is a awesome set up for a great price https://www.ebay.com/itm/best-gas-f...720641?hash=item4b60ed7001:g:tb8AAOSw2HxclVZa

 

[Tony01]

Belt primary is the way to go. Couple bikes I helped build/have my old parts

 

[Ralph hop]

Hey Tony, I was already looking at the red bike you built earlier today and think I'll do somthing similar with the drive. I've already got a go kart jackshaft kit I just need to weld it up and will mount it to the back side of the motor mounts most likely. Today was a sunny day out so I got the mounts sanded down to fit better and also got the clutch drum sanded flat. The drum was so uneven it would have shook the motor apart.

 

[Ralph hop]

Following along with interest, Ralph. 170mm dropout measurement is common fat tyre frame width.
Month or so back I followed up a link for this frame/tank on AliExpress who were listing it as having no minimum order quantity. I identified the frame as being the same one offered as a roller by cnol in their eBay listings. As a satisfied customer of cnol's, I have no issues with the quality of the frame/tank/forks they sell (but we all know they are not the manufacturers). The AE seller emailed me back saying they presently had no inventory but were aiming to have stocks in time for the big China Expo in March. I received an email from them today saying that despite Corona virus pandemic, the Expo was still scheduled to go ahead. Presumably, production is gearing up for this event. AE's listed pricing/shipping from China to me in the UK was very competitive.
Imagine this frame mated with one of those scaled-down 70% vintage looking 350cc v-twin motors...

Thank you Pete, I'm hoping for these kinds of products to be the new future for motorized pedal bikes with ready made frames for this kind of sport, Schwinn Panthers and the other built in tank frames are great imo, sportsman and worksman bikes for sure. These frame and tanks help to get away from the old peanut tanks. I'm a subscriber to rat rod bikes forum and I enjoy seeing the classics left as being bicycles with some improvements. The old bike frames are getting hard to come by anymore. My main goal with this build is to get a racing league going in my area for the go karting crowd and put together a bike with reliability and serviceability that has a easy to follow build method with there always being more room for inovation. Also to note, the old BTR style has been in demand since at least 2010 when riders were mounting upside down bars on huffy cranbrooks.

 

[Ralph hop]

Here is the mount I built for the jackshaft. Pretty simple but should work good. I'll primer and paint black if the wind ever dies down. Then I'll be able to get the engine mounted and start from there.

 

[indian22]

Nice job on the combination jack shaft and motor mount Ralph. You've a lot of simple wiggle room for sprocket/ chain line adjustment with this mount and the extra wide rear triangle. Nice solutions for running a really wide tire.

Rick C.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Just want to mention I had trouble with those kind of pillow bearing holders being too loose. They stamp cut the metal and some were allowing after time wearing the sealed bearing, had the bearing spin the outer inside the pillow bearing holder. I bought a pack of ten bearings and change them sooner than 5 years. The washers I used as spacers I had to be sure they would not press up against but only the inner bearing rim, else metal is scraping on metal. Split collar bearings where they only clamp on the jackshaft are best, I don't ever use the kind that have a set screw hit the jackshaft's surface. I know when set screw is used that sits on key in keyway of jackshaft that is OK, just not on the round. If a gear or clutch has two setscrews I just use the one only at the keyway. The result otherwise is a heck of a time removing parts to replace when worn, like bearings. When I used the split collars and also drilled and tapped jackshaft end with bolt that self tightens due to engine rotation on right hand thread, I'm not worrying about loosening.

 

[indian22]

I also tap the axle for end bolts on jack shaft setups and set screws do some damage. Good tips.

Rick C.

 

[Ralph hop]

Good advise, I've had the same concerns and I'm hoping the three layers of cured paint plus primer will give the bearings a tighter grip in the mounts. Pillow blocks might be better but I already had this setup and I think it gives a clean look. Bolts on the end is a good idea. I think I can do that with the drill press and levels. I have some actual flanged bearings but they are for low speed cart axles and such. I might have to see if a supplier has some high speed flanged. I'm not crazy about the snap ring design.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Whats more is the belt and pulley are more forgiving for the slight angle I had from rear wheel sheave to a pulley on a jackshaft, as compared to chain sprocket. If you make your frame rear or modify it could be true without any skew. Spreading drop outs evenly and also getting dropouts still parallel by adjusting afterward I have heard of and I never really got that right, but it works. So I had to keep tire from rubbing and also have at the same time the nuts on the rear wheel axle in the drop outs fully back in the drop outs. Before I added on each side of all pulleys those split collars (sandwiching in), I had one pulley that was supposed to hold the jackshaft in place slip. The Tension of the v-belt and the slight sideways angle of the belt a-skew had the whole shaft slip sideways after a while of using it. Was not sure what the scraping sound was riding a trail. The shaft no longer was using a bearing on one side. It instead was on the pillow bearing holder (That D shape metal thing). I got a new jackshaft as the grove in it was shallow, but still significant. My mistakes I learned the hard way. Since your building a lot from scratch, having a large enough adjustment for belt an or chain is best. A back idler pulley that I can adjust for v-belt worked out the minimal adjustment on the engine platform. I've replaced chain and masterlink without problem, but the offset half links I have found some to be a bit loose fitting. When I could not get acceptable to me more of those, I now have gotten the 1.5 length kind that will require 2 masterlinks. This type does not have that tiny cotter pin which you cannot buy separately. Keeping the ends of the tiny cotter pin for interfering was my concern too. The 1.5 Link is all press fit assembled. When adding the 1.5 length, that equates to a half link when you press out 1 of the chain links. Never had the chain jump gears, but when I saw the half link that when new was originally slightly loose (the whole package of three all the like), while doing lube maintenance and inspection, the half link was not straightening out when past either gear. It remained slightly bent. When I see how the 1.5 Link that is just like the rest of the chain wears, I can report on that.

 

[Tony01]

Looking good. Everything MT said about those mounts is right. I have used them for pedal related hardware. Mine were loose.

What’s your seat tube wall thickness? It lists it as 1.2mm or 1/16” but those numbers are a 1/64th apart....

 

[Ralph hop]

Hey Tony, its .065" wall e.r.w. tubing. They must've meant 16 guage. I noticed the same.

 

[Ralph hop]

I've got some free time today and waiting for the paint to cure on the Jack shaft mounts. Too bad there's not a powder coat person nearby. It might be worth it. I'm working on the front forks which require a 1.25" stretch on the steer tube. I've got the steer tube cut and a 1.25" section of 1" diameter tube for the stretch, also a 3.25" long piece of 7/8 chromoly tube from a mountain bike handle bar to slip inside. The chromoly tube is soaking in paint stripper. This will all be coated in water based flux and silver brazed together with Harris silver wire. Bottom bearing race is already on. As an added precaution I'm replacing the quill stem bolt with a piece of stainless all thread that will pass through the quill expanding nut and to the bottom of the fork were there will be 3mm thickness of two 1.5 mm fender washers and a nylock nut. Up top there is a nylock nut capped off with a silver brazed acorn nut. The front truss connecting bolt is cut and a 1" long hex coupler nut is used to raise the threads. This will be brazed also.

 

[Ralph hop]

After trimming, fitting, filing and sanding on this fork tube I know there is plenty material for a good weld. For those that have these forks, the steering tube is tapered on the inside from about .120" tubing thickness where it meets the fork arm plate and ends up being around 16 gauge thickness where the crown nut goes on minus the threading. This may be how all steering tubes are but I never knew. I plan to keep the fork steer tube straight using a drill vise and use aluminum tape and foil to protect against weld spatter. There's plenty rain expected so I'll have some more time to think before I weld.

 

[Ralph hop]

Bike is starting to come together. Today was bright and sunny so got the forks welded up solid. With my life depending on this weld I made sure I got the rod key holed in the gap and then put a nice cap weld over. Ended up grinding and filing the welds for the forks to slide through the bearing cups. Was so focused I didn't snap any pics of the process but I wouldn't do it this way again. Best way is to cut well above the inside taper and use a steer tube from a donor fork. This way there is only one weld and the sleeve is a less painful process only requiring an uncut 7/8 tube. I can read how to do something but now I'll remember forever lol.

 

[Ralph hop]

The jackshaft mount I made didn't fit by a long shot, I forgot to take into account the wide chain stays on the frame. With clearance for a right side sprocket being so small I'll have about a 1:1 pedal ratio with the moped freewheel. Pedals would be all for show and I'd always be thinking about the freewheel back there roaring at a steady speed. Dare I say it? I'm thinking of using the bottom bracket as a jack shaft to the right side. There's room for a seven inch pulley on the left and three or four on the right and then back to a right side mounted whizzer sheave of fifteen inches. Other option would be a jackshaft plate from the engine but still not sure. Also front Mount pic. Yes, painted the clutch brass color..

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

The jackshaft mount I made didn't fit by a long shot, I forgot to take into account the wide chain stays on the frame. With clearance for a right side sprocket being so small I'll have about a 1:1 pedal ratio with the moped freewheel. Pedals would be all for show and I'd always be thinking about the freewheel back there roaring at a steady speed. Dare I say it? I'm thinking of using the bottom bracket as a jack shaft to the right side. There's room for a seven inch pulley on the left and three or four on the right and then back to a right side mounted whizzer sheave of fifteen inches. Other option would be a jackshaft plate from the engine but still not sure. Also front Mount pic. Yes, painted the clutch brass color.. View attachment 104159

Was there interference such that the jackshaft and associated parts will not fit? I had to say, because if it is the width laterally that things don't line up, you may see what I did using sprockets attached to longer keyed shaft that comes in not just 10, 12, 14... inch whatever might work. AGK website sells and other vendors. If in big city many supply houses have up to 3 ft and you cut yourself custom. There is a draw back if the area is where foot pegs are and with straddling and feet on foot pegs comfortably.

Pictures:
From early stages when twin jackshafts had a myriad of option on ratios from 15 to 37 to 1 ratio. 37 was for parade speed, but wasteful on gas. 20 was best trails with some hills. 12 ratio I am now forced to use till I can get an older 3hp that fits the clutch right on the engine back running better. Crazyily now I use a one to one ratio to connect a 3.5hp Briggs to one of the two jackshafts to make a live jackshaft to fit a clutch, since the clutch needs a longer crankshaft than is on that engine. This prohibits having greater than 20 to 1 ratio. I use it but hills are not easy sometimes.

https://motorbicycling.com/attachments/img14764-20130119-1650-jpg.55471/

https://motorbicycling.com/attachments/img_4996-jpg.65395/

 

[indian22]

Had the fork been used on another bike and the steer tube cut?

Bottom bracket and reduction gear isn't exotic & works great, looks clean. Some have problems building the reduction gear and getting it right. I've built using both and been satisfied with the results. My electric V-twin uses a jack shaft, but the bottom bracket/reduction gear would have been much simpler for me to fab, just wanted what I wanted, not because one works better.


Rick C.