Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

I am seriously coveting those dropouts with the correctly positioned axle tugs.
Tom

I hear you Tom. I built my HD "Pea shooter" with Keystone, using the standard Sportsman frame and love it, but the Bonneville features are really a big step up. If I did it over again I'd select the "Bonneville frame" it's really robust for high output motors or just mounting big guys who want cool rides. These frames do look sweet. Of course not all builders require or desire these for their application, but for those who do I'd suggest getting in touch with Pat.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Rick I think you are right about connecting with Pat.
Is your new frame 1/8" wall DOM? That is a real game changer for HP needed.
Tom

 

[indian22]

No it's not DOM Tom I've got two full sticks of 1" .120" DOM waiting to build something requiring a lot of strength. That's what I used to build my Simplex frame and why I know it's strong enough to mount a side car and pull a wagon full of donkeys at the same time. We decided the 1" x .090" in what I call "race tube", EW steel is plenty strong. If I was looking at 20 plus hp I might have opted for DOM, but I consider 1" x .120" overkill for even that, but extra heavy rider and perhaps adding a side hack. I'd use 1" x .120". That's what I'm going to use for the Simplex side car, but mainly because I already own the metal, not because I feel it's necessary.

That's me, Tom but 1" x .120" DOM would make a great frame no doubt about it.

I've got good history with Pat and it just got better.

I just came in from a productive afternoon, beautiful day here in I.T. and I have a Sportsman roller to show for it. Just stuff I had, but it's what I needed to mount the motor case and I hope to have the electric V twin mounted in the frame by tomorrow and if all's good. I can go forward with the completion. Just eyeballing it and taking some coarse measurements things look pretty good for motor fit up.

Photo with the handle bars 5" to high, only stem I could find, chrome wheels, no saddle etc. won't be there when I'm done, but gives me a frame and some perspective of how it's coming along. I take the color photos and edit them to black and white so I'm not distracted by all the miss match.

The mounted tires are 2.125" x 26" front and 3" x 26" in the rear and I may stick with a 3" on the rear, not this Kenda piece of junk, and run 2.50" on the front. The diameter of the 3" is almost 29" which is pretty close to the height of the early tires.
I'd have to modify the drops in the front fork to accept much over 2.5" tire not because of width but because of height. I'll kick that can down the road.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

Nice looking frame, going to be so KOOL.............Curt

 

[indian22]

Thanks Curt. I forgot to add that ground clearance for the frame is 4.5" but the motor clearance is only 3.5" as it sits over the frame. I'm hoping the battery pack only weighs about 17 lbs. more than a full tank of gas. The motor controller added 4 lbs. and the magneto another 3 lbs. so motor weight is now 58 lbs. batteries add another 25 lbs. (estimate) so 83 lbs. total and that's about the same as the 125cc 5speed and a tank of fuel in my Simplex or the Harley Peashooter. They both handle well with the low center of gravity.. The Peashooter and the electric V-twin should weigh about the same while the Simplex is quite a bit heavier.

Rick C.

 

[sportscarpat]

Man, that fork is short.
I see two engine mounts. Are you planning a third? Heads to center tube.
I see some discussion ablove about .120" wall DOM. In my experience it is seriously strong, and heavy. For the lighter duty applications, like electric bikes, I use .090" wall ERW as it's more than strong enough and I prefer to save a few pounds. I prefer .120" wall for the motorcycle tire applications.
Pat

 

[PeteMcP]

"Rollin, rollin, rollin...."
Hmmm, I'm betting maybe the fork isn't short. Possibly just the camera angle - and perspective being exacerbated by that longer temporary stem.

 

[sportscarpat]

"Rollin, rollin, rollin...."
Hmmm, I'm betting maybe the fork isn't short. Possibly just the camera angle - and perspective being exacerbated by that longer temporary stem.

For me I see how close the front tire is to the down tube. Big difference from the forks I use. It will certainly make for a steeper steering angle as this lowers the front of the bike. Over time I have lengthened my forks to relax the steering geometry for more stability. This fork Rick has should still work but will have quicker steering. It will be interesting to see the bike sitting on its tires from a direct side view so I can see the angle of the top frame tube relative to the ground. I also need to keep in mind that the front part of the down tube on this frame is further forward. I lowered the loop and raised the upper bend higher just under the center tube which has also brought the down tube closer to the wheel. I have another frame just like this one with longer forks installed and can post a picture here if people want to see the difference.

 

[sportscarpat]

By the way, for me seeing this frame set up as it is is fascinating to me.
Pat

 

[PeteMcP]

Pat, I'm a huge fan of your work and bow to your knowledge, so please don't think I'm trying to tell my Gran how to suck eggs, but isn't the front tyre snugged-up tight to the frame downtube how Harley boardies looked back in the day?
No misgivings from Rick when he posted the roller pic, so I'm thinking he aimed for the authentic look - along with the quicker steering rake/trail.

 

[sportscarpat]

Hi Pete,
Thanks for responding. It's nice to bounce ideas around and I need to consider all angles. Your picture above shows a tire scraper, also. Tank is pretty much level to the ground. I need to remember why I do what I do. The above bike is certainly a race bike. There is simply no room for a big fender on that machine. It has nice steep steering for quick response. On my springer forks I now buy spring material in bulk and can simply cut the spring length to change ride height. A cruiser needs fender room. A land speed bike needs a shallower rake. A true boardie, which is like a flat track bike in many ways, needs a steeper rake. In my drawings I just knocked an 1" off the spring height and steepened the rake by a full degree. Lots of ways to set up the same basic frame and seeing Rick's Flyer frame set up with a very short fork, shorter than any I have ever tried, really reminds me of that.
Pat

 

[indian22]

You guys are making excellent points. I'm busy working on the bike, but will respond and take a few pics along with some measurements and I can kick this around with you in a few hours.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Christmas just came early for you Rick, so who wouldn't rather play with new deliveries rather than chew the fat online....
Nothing beats being able to make major headway on a build after getting your hands on one or two main components following weeks of anticipation.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Pat as long as you here, a Sportsman frame with those drop outs are on my list.
Tom

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Rick, That roller look great! The extra 2" of drop in the loop in the frame is well balanced. You may need a set of Pat's Harley forks too.
Tom

 

[indian22]

Guys I stopped while there was light to take some photos and I'll need some time to sort though the lot, get on it after supper and read all the posts before trying to reply. Thanks for the input and enthusiasm.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

A couple of photos with e-v-twin in place. Great day but really long and I'm a bit beat.

Rick C

 

[FOG]

Can I push the like button twice?

 

[Tony01]

Nice.

 

[fasteddy]

This build has it all. An incredible hand built period correct engine with a cleverly concealed electric motor with a brass carb that isn't real made from a brass T fitting made for tubing. A custom made Sportsman Flyer frame for it to sit in.

Tutorials on welding and a great amount of input from the builder and fellow viewers. What a grand forum this is.

Steve.