new 79cc burning oil

[Geordan White]

Hello everyone , I have an Onex 29er and i upgraded my 49cc to a 79cc 4 stroke.( governor removed ).No other mods done... It fit pretty good and only at a slight angle forward. My dilemma is this : My engine seems to run great first of all, but it smokes after warming up and going for a ride....and the smoke is oil burning in the cylinder. Now i have tried the exact amount specified in the manual and i have looked in these forums for an answer... I even tried removing some of the oil in case there was too much....and it was getting in to the cylinder because of this.. The engine is new ..so my only conclusion is that ....1 the rings have not seated yet...or 2. I already have a problem with this thing I.E. bad rings or cylinder ?? Now i have seen in other forums someone did mention that he only had 8 ounces of oil in his engine without any issues.... Im at sort of a loss here. The thing is with this one... It runs GREAT , has compression etc... Do i just have too much oil in it ? I have approximately 13oz of SAE 30 with Zinc (break in oil)... anyway ...any help would be great... Ill post some pics later on so the engine mounting angle is shown... Thanks ...G. White

 

[Geordan White]

Hello everyone, I wanted to post pics so the angle and the build is shown.. I wanted to note that .. I can start the engine and run it standing still with little to no smoke at all. It’s after I get on the road and I’m rocking on the throttle and going around corners . When I hop off it’s usually just billowing smoke out of the exhaust..even spitting oil... seems like a lot. And when I shut it down . I can hear it sizzling in the hot pipe. I put 13.5oz of oil in it and that is exactly the amount called for in the manual. ... I hope I can get this resolved. The bike came out really nice and it rides beautifully.... again..any pointers or comments would be greatly appreciated....GWhite

 

[Greg58]

Welcome to the forum, we have some guys here that have a lot of experience with the predators so you’ve come to the right place. Several guys race them and get a lot of power out of them.

 

[Geordan White]

Thanks Greg ..I really appreciate the warm welcome !! ... yeah I’m hoping to get some answers. I fired it up this morning and just ran it standing still( on it’s kickstand) . I let it warm up idling then ran it up and got the engine nice and heated up ... and little to no smoke. So ... it’s only when I’m tilting the engine.. I’m really starting to think I’ve just got a little too much oil in the engine.. the angle is approximately 25% forward. So all the oil is pooling up there and that’s where the crank is so when I turn a corner the cylinder gets flooded with oil ..but I will say my 49cc I had in this same bicycle ..never.. smoked like this., so... . ? Someone has run in to this I’m sure I just need to be patient and wait for some input...

 

[Geordan White]

Hello motorbikers ... It’s HOT here ! 101 Plus !! Anyway ...I hope I have done my introduction right on here and posted my questions in the right area... I’m rather new to this forum stuff. I actually removed exactly 1 ounce more of oil from my crankcase last night, took my bike for a spin, ..got back home here and.. Whoalla ! No smoke ! So maybe I solved my own issue... I went ahead and wrapped my header tonight so I can quit burning my leg. I would still like to know if anyone has had this oils smoke issue or has an idea of oil amounts for 79cc on a 25% slant forward...or any other pointers...

 

[curtisfox]

Not sure about the amount of oil, but tipping engine is common, also know that any new engine will use oil until the rigs seat themselves.
Welcome aboard...............Curt

 

[Geordan White]

Hey thanks Curt, yeah it looks like I had a little too much oil in it as well. The amount specified in the manual (approximately 13.5 oz) is too much if the motor is slanted at all. I removed about 3oz and no more smoking..

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

When you tilt the engine like that, you can't rely on the dipstick for a correct oil level.

What I did was take off the side cover, & 'eyeball' where the correct oil level would be on the side of the crankshaft & then figure out where the new oil level line is with the engine tilted... Then I drilled & tapped the side cover for a brass plug so I can always fill to the new level.

Here's some pictures of the brass plug & a crappy drawing of what I'm talking about...

 

[Greg58]

Norm I was hoping you or one of the guys that do the predators for racing would reply, I was thinking the same but since I have no first hand knowledge it’s good to hear.

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

Norm I was hoping you or one of the guys that do the predators for racing would reply, I was thinking the same but since I have no first hand knowledge it’s good to hear.

Jeff Wolf is way better at these big engines than I am...

 

[indian22]

You both pretty darn salty!

Rick C.

 

[Russell]

When you tilt the engine like that, you can't rely on the dipstick for a correct oil level.

What I did was take off the side cover, & 'eyeball' where the correct oil level would be on the side of the crankshaft & then figure out where the new oil level line is with the engine tilted... Then I drilled & tapped the side cover for a brass plug so I can always fill to the new level.

Here's some pictures of the brass plug & a crappy drawing of what I'm talking about...
View attachment 101155 View attachment 101156 View attachment 101157

Could you tell me what brand clutch is in this picture. THX

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

Could you tell me what brand clutch is in this picture. THX

It's a Bully clutch... Sportsman Flyer sells them specially set up for 212cc engines.

 

[indian22]

When you tilt the engine like that, you can't rely on the dipstick for a correct oil level.

What I did was take off the side cover, & 'eyeball' where the correct oil level would be on the side of the crankshaft & then figure out where the new oil level line is with the engine tilted... Then I drilled & tapped the side cover for a brass plug so I can always fill to the new level.

Here's some pictures of the brass plug & a crappy drawing of what I'm talking about...
View attachment 101155 View attachment 101156 View attachment 101157

The photos show several great 212cc engine setup solutions that bear study in addition to the oil sight plug. First is the use of a primary chain tensioner (idler) between clutch and reduction gear. Second the clean jackshaft design and last a beautiful, well fitted custom exhaust. Another wonderful bike from Venice Motor Bikes. The Bully clutch is a point to focus on as well...good clutch made really special by Pat over at Sportsman Flyers with the special setup for cycling use, which is quite different than the typical requirement for karting. I've never read a bad comment about the performance of these specific clutches...

Again nice work from both Norm and Pat.

Rick C

 

[EZL]

Hello everyone, I wanted to post pics so the angle and the build is shown.. I wanted to note that .. I can start the engine and run it standing still with little to no smoke at all. It’s after I get on the road and I’m rocking on the throttle and going around corners . When I hop off it’s usually just billowing smoke out of the exhaust..even spitting oil... seems like a lot. And when I shut it down . I can hear it sizzling in the hot pipe. I put 13.5oz of oil in it and that is exactly the amount called for in the manual. ... I hope I can get this resolved. The bike came out really nice and it rides beautifully.... again..any pointers or comments would be greatly appreciated....GWhite

I was wondering about the frame holding up since it's a aluminum frame? I considered this bike but shied away from bikes
with aluminum frames since the 212cc is a "torque monster." I'll stay with steel frame bikes.

 

[Geordan White]

Hey there guys, wow , I’m impressed with the amount of helpful information. Big thanks to Venice Motor Bikes for the great pics and diagram.... I got the oil issue solved , I had too much in it. I basically did what you suggested above in your drawing except I didn’t add a new plug. .... So now I measure the oil going in and it’s perfect every time. But I am now considering doing a new plug as well . What a great idea. I have since built a new machine . A 26 inch low rider ..l and it’s coming out beautifully. What a great hobby !

Happy Motoring

 

[indian22]

Norm over at Venice has helped many of us over the years and he deserves more praise than he gets. Thank you Geordan for pointing Norm out!

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Not all aluminum frames or for that matter steel frames are good candidates for motorizing let alone using a 212cc. motor. Time will tell on any frame. I check for frame cracks frequently on all my bikes, motorized or not both steel and aluminum frames. Cracking is a thing & aluminum gets most of the bad rap for this malady 'cause relatively few hobby welders can proficiently weld/repair aluminum.

Rick C.

 

[EZL]

Not all aluminum frames or for that matter steel frames are good candidates for motorizing let alone using a 212cc. motor. Time will tell on any frame. I check for frame cracks frequently on all my bikes, motorized or not both steel and aluminum frames. Cracking is a thing & aluminum gets most of the bad rap for this malady 'cause relatively few hobby welders can proficiently weld/repair aluminum.

Rick C.

Rick, your right on using s steel frame bike especially on the 79cc and 212cc engines. A person wouldn't want a aluminum
frame to break or collapse at 30 mph. The other day I buzzed mine up to the 50 mph speedometer on the 212cc and had
plenty of throttle left. Way too scary on it since the speedometer was pegged out and don't know how fast it was going.
I've never had the engine wide open and wouldn't try it full throttle since I don't have a governor on the engine. I know
that the engine is not fully broke-in yet and it will be awhile before it is. I saw a review on the "PhatMoto" bike and it wasn't
impressive as a stock setup since the bike only ran about 17 mph with the governor on it. The bike frame work looked
impressive even though it was a aluminum frame. A lot of gussets were welded into it and the welding looked good.
There's a lot of issues that needed to be addressed on the bike in the reviews. I guess if a fella didn't have the mechanical
skills to build from scratch a motorized bike it wouldn't be a bad setup to start with. A 79cc is a good choice and I might add
that the PhatMoto bike uses a Lifan engine which should be reliable.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Norm. your use of a brass plug to gage oil level is brilliant but I will up the ante. Something not seen on engines today, a sight glass with level line. I love threads like this. Gets my creative juices flowing.
Tom