I've started a few threads with questions about my build but thought I'd start a generic thread so everything from now on is in one place. This is where I'm at, the bike is loosely assembled but I have a few issues that I need to resolve. I've ordered a few different CNC drive sprockets but am thinking I might use the rag joint to give it an authentic retro look, I was wondering which way around the sprocket usually goes? Teeth facing in towards the wheel or outwards?
UK Board Racer Build
- Thread starter davla
- Start date
You've started out really well on this build & made some really nice choices on the parts used. I'd suggest to you that there are various reasons behind why experienced builders avoid using the rag joint & most of us started building bikes years ago using the kit joint because we didn't know any other way to do it. Some of us decided there had to be a better way & eventually the hub adapter came to market. I bought the first one I ever saw. If you like the look of the rag & think it's more classic that's fine, but I've not seen them on any of the early day, original classic bikes. The wheel "sheaves" were used with belt final drives and are truly classic, but they don't look anything like the tiny rag joints.
I'm not a hater of the rag joint, just have no use for them, but I do feel you & your bike deserve better.
Rick C.
I'm not a hater of the rag joint, just have no use for them, but I do feel you & your bike deserve better.
Rick C.
Looking good, there are a lot of guys using rag joints, the main thing is to get them centered and tightened even. Think they are suppose to be teeth facing out, but also they say what ever fit your bike the best. In may chain rub on your tires. Put it on and see how a chain lines up...........Curt
Originally I was concerned that the rag joint sprocket would put too much strain on the spokes or that it might damage the wheel which is why I bought the CNC sprockets? Should I be worried about the rag joint damaging the wheel or not?
Curtis mentioned lining up the chains which is so important on any build. Absolutely straight chain line to the motor is a must or chains will break and sprockets suffer undue wear (bike will feel smoother and have less drive line noise as well). I built a bike with the same frame, Fat Frank "brick" pattern tires and wide wheels that you are using and chain to tire clearance is minimal on my bike, while maintaining a straight drive chain. I'm doubtful that you can clear the rear tire with your current components running a rag joint. Off set of the engine position to gain clearance will make the chain run crooked and isn't a good solution. I used the extra long hub adapter (Sportsman Flyer accessory) set at maximum reach & only clear by 3/16", but now have perfect alignment. All the hub adaptors place the load on the hub shell and not on the spokes, not all hub adaptors are equal in quality however, but a good one set up correctly will run "true" and prevent spoke/wheel damage...just a few of the reasons to opt for the hub adaptor. As you build more bikes you'll see others as well.
Best of luck with this build it's looking great!
Rick C.
Best of luck with this build it's looking great!
Rick C.
Welcome to the party.
Hub adapter every time. Bin the kit's rag joint. You won't ever miss it.
Hub adapter every time. Bin the kit's rag joint. You won't ever miss it.
I agree with Rick. Sportsman Flyer hub adapter is your best option. The really nice feature about them is they are 3 piece. Better grip and they spread the clamping force better than the two piece hubs.
Steve.
Steve.
The rag joint goes all the way back to pre 1939 Germany. Provided you don't ask too much of it and keep an eye on the condition, it should work quite well.
Thanks for providing the precise timeline for the advent of the rag joint Ludwig this shows that for 38 years of classic motorized bike development over most of 4 decades and including the millions of bikes made by scores of manufacturers during this time frame, there was no rag joint drive used on the vast majority of all the bikes manufactured. Post ww2 and to the present date hundreds of millions of bikes have been manufactured, and yet the rag joint drive has not been a common sight on the products turned out by previous or current world manufacturers in America, Europe & Asia; it's not been selected for use on models small or huge. The hub mount arrangement has historically supported both the moto cycles final drive system & all or part of the brake assembly both front and rear. Which leads me to a conclusion that the hub supported drive was found to be superior to the other technologies extant at the time. With improvements in tech know how and better materials the shaft drive has made significant inroads & has become a rather common cycle drive train component as well, but it too is wheel hub supported . The only significant & truly classic spoke supported drive system was the belt drive that actually dominated during the first years of moto cycling development, yet it too fell into disfavor & the hub driven chain & sprocket became the standard in bike drives on both the pedal and the motor sides of things. I really like the use of the belt & scheeve arrangement as a classic tribute component because of it's historical significance on early moto cycle development...the current rag joint is a product of manufacturer cost cutting to provide for a home assembly product which can hit a low price point & be used to assemble up to a department store 14 ga. spoke wheel that the home builder has available. It's been a great marketing strategy by the Chinese, really great for them. This is what the current rag joint's "success" means historically. It's not about classic, or better it's just cost cutting in the short term.
Rick C.
Rick C.
Whoa! Please don't bite! I only said it dates back years and, like many things, probably benefits from occasional inspection and mainatainance.
Reviewed my post & see how you might think I was getting my back up, which wasn't my intention Ludwig as I value your input. I took your post as providing correct information & not as a recomendation of any sort pro or con & I fully agree that a rag joint is one way to connect a drive train on some builds. It is at best the cheap way to go...
Rick C.
I made a little more progress today and as some of you predicted the drive chain just touches the 2.35" Fat Frank tyres. I've made adjustments to the rear sprocket but it looks as though the only way around it is to fit narrower tyres so I was thinking of trying Schwalbe Big Bens which are 2.1" wide and come in brown and cream....any other ideas or opinions??
I've come up with a Make and Model for the bike and designed a logo, can anyone point me in the direction of a UK website where I could get some transfers made up so I can put the logo on the tank?
I've still got some other issues to solve:
I need a smaller chainring
spark plug is too close to the frame
I need a lean back seat post
I need to find a retro looking throttle that's not too long as the handlebars are pretty sort
Also I was originally going to powder coat the frame black but am thinking of spraying in red oxide instead to give it retro look....only thinking at this stage
I've come up with a Make and Model for the bike and designed a logo, can anyone point me in the direction of a UK website where I could get some transfers made up so I can put the logo on the tank?
I've still got some other issues to solve:
I need a smaller chainring
spark plug is too close to the frame
I need a lean back seat post
I need to find a retro looking throttle that's not too long as the handlebars are pretty sort
Also I was originally going to powder coat the frame black but am thinking of spraying in red oxide instead to give it retro look....only thinking at this stage
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Retro throttle, try Mopedland andsee if they have something from an autocycle or other old lightweight. The frame colour, maroon, black or ivory. Take a look at the 500 James V twin. Transfers, no idea, but let me
know if you find someone, I will eventually need them. Actually, I just messaged Doug Pinkerton as he's a vintage bicycle restorer. If he comes up with something, I'll get back to you.
know if you find someone, I will eventually need them. Actually, I just messaged Doug Pinkerton as he's a vintage bicycle restorer. If he comes up with something, I'll get back to you.
Davia,
As Rick has recommended, and Steve too. The Sportsman Flyer hub adapter is the to go. Rag joint sprocket connections offer no adjustment and our builds need every adjustment available. Measure your Coaster hub and inquire of Pat Dolan [email protected]
if his adaptor is suitable. We are in this to get you rolling.
Tom from Rubicon
As Rick has recommended, and Steve too. The Sportsman Flyer hub adapter is the to go. Rag joint sprocket connections offer no adjustment and our builds need every adjustment available. Measure your Coaster hub and inquire of Pat Dolan [email protected]
if his adaptor is suitable. We are in this to get you rolling.
Tom from Rubicon
Doug has come up with looking up H Lloyd Cycles on the Internet and sending them an enquiry to cost or contact his friend Ian Da Costa on FB, he does make decals so worth messaging him.
Cheers Tom, I've got a Sportsman Flyer/Pat Dolan sprocket fitted as you see in the pic. They're very nice but cost a small fortune to send to the UK and then we get hit with a hefty import duty.
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Cheers Ludwig, I've just looked up their website, looks like the type of transfer decals that I'm after so I'll send them an email
I have a question about the throttle. Given the period look you are aiming at, have you considered an old metal lawn mower lever? You can get it back to bare metal and have it nickel plated for the finish and style. Just a thought, ignore and hurl it out of the window if unsuitable.
I cut the covering off a new throttle and slid one that matched the other side on. Warm water to make it pliable and a good dash of dish soap to get it on. Soap will dry and the new cover won't move.
Steve.
Steve.