thingswithwelding
New Member
Will a bully clutch fit on a 79cc Predator with a jackshaft plate? Has anybody seen this setup? Ive never seen a Bully clutch in person and wonder if they are "wider" or just look wider? Thanks.
Bully Clutch on 79cc Pred with jack plate???
- Thread starter thingswithwelding
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thingswithwelding
New Member
If you could Il appreciate it. I just finished my build and I am finally in test riding phase. I have a 79cc Predator with a Gasbike aluminum jackshaft plate. Im sure you seen those plates before. They force your clutch out about a Half inch. My regular cheapy clutch works but I get so much vibration on my start. Do you think a willard will solve this issue? I want a bully but the person who supplys them accepts no returns from what I remember. His company works with Bully, to fine tune the Bully clutches he stocks, specially for motorized bicycles. When I get going, everything really smoothes out nice, but the beginning is a pain. I dont want all that vibration shaking things apart. I take my bell off my clutch and sandpaper the buildup that shows up, but it comes right back (this helps twmporarily). After researching, Ive read Max torque clutches and the the better ones solve the issue, but they are all shoe type clutches. The bully clutches are disc which provides a smooth acceleration? Do you get beginning vibrations with your willard? Are you familiar with what Im explaining? I need some good suggestions before I make my purchase? If you could measure you Bully seating ID length Id appreciate it. The height really isnt an issue. Its the width thats bothering me. My plate already causes a regular clutch to hang off a bit so I dont want a Bully purchase to be extreme? Can you provid a photo of your clutch side? Because, I dont know if you have a plate or welded jackshaft system. Thanks.
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thingswithwelding
New Member
thingswithwelding
New Member
culvercityclassic
Well-Known Member
The disk clutch you are looking @ must be the one from Sportsman Flyer, it was designed to work with your engine, you may have to add a few washers on the shaft to space it out, included with the clutch.
Here's the Bully measurements.
Inside the clutch that sits on the crank shaft 2-5/16" long.
Bell diameter is 4"
Distance from end of the clutch to the outside of the sprocket is 1/4"
I haven't used the Willard clutch yet but I wouldn't recommend it. They are metal to metal and I don't see that lasting to long. It was just something to use to judge distances until I found a clutch that I wanted. The better shoe type clutches often require adjusting (replacing) the shoes and springs until you find a set that works.
You can buy a box of different spring weights and shoes and then it's a matter of replacing them until you get what you want. Ask the supplier of Bully clutches if it will work on your motor. I bought mine from Pat at Sportsman Flyer.
It sounds like you are getting clutch chatter as you pull away. That is where the shoes grab the bell and then let go and grab it again. The shoes hold tight once you are going fast enough. That is one of the benefits of the plated clutch. When it makes contact it doesn't chatter unless the plate is worn out or oily.
Hope this helps with your decision and if you need more information please ask. I posted photos of my Bully clutch on my thread Indian Tadpole. Silver bear started it so it's under his name. Click on the link and it will take you to my Photobucket account where the photos are stored.
It's in the Motorized Tandems, Trikes and Recumbent Bikes section.
Steve.
Inside the clutch that sits on the crank shaft 2-5/16" long.
Bell diameter is 4"
Distance from end of the clutch to the outside of the sprocket is 1/4"
I haven't used the Willard clutch yet but I wouldn't recommend it. They are metal to metal and I don't see that lasting to long. It was just something to use to judge distances until I found a clutch that I wanted. The better shoe type clutches often require adjusting (replacing) the shoes and springs until you find a set that works.
You can buy a box of different spring weights and shoes and then it's a matter of replacing them until you get what you want. Ask the supplier of Bully clutches if it will work on your motor. I bought mine from Pat at Sportsman Flyer.
It sounds like you are getting clutch chatter as you pull away. That is where the shoes grab the bell and then let go and grab it again. The shoes hold tight once you are going fast enough. That is one of the benefits of the plated clutch. When it makes contact it doesn't chatter unless the plate is worn out or oily.
Hope this helps with your decision and if you need more information please ask. I posted photos of my Bully clutch on my thread Indian Tadpole. Silver bear started it so it's under his name. Click on the link and it will take you to my Photobucket account where the photos are stored.
It's in the Motorized Tandems, Trikes and Recumbent Bikes section.
Steve.
thingswithwelding
New Member
Yes, Sportsman Flyer is the one Im interested in. I understand the washer spacing. Im just concerned with the width as I have 1/2 jackshaft plate spacing that is there. So, Im hoping the Bully clutch is not wider than a regular clutch bore. A few 16ths or an 1/8th shouldnt matter but thats my concern anyway. They may be the same. They have those adjusting springs that may make it look wider on the body of it but the bore length is whats important.
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thingswithwelding
New Member
Thanks for the Information Steve. Yes, the chatter is whats bugging me. Your exactly explaining it how I would explain it. Some of it goes away if I sand the inside of the bell. But it comes right back. I seen a youtube video where this young man shows how he grinds the bevels in the shoes bigger to help with that. Its on youtube if you search how to fix centrifugal clutch vibration. Just thouht Id through that out there while we are here. I have no idea if it helps in our application. I think I seen your thread. I was going to jump in the conversation last night but was afraid I would not get a reply as the thread is a little older. Im going to read that again. Thanks for helping me. Cheers. Reno
thingswithwelding
New Member
I might post on it. Thanks. I wonder how difficult it is to adjust these clutchs (Cheetah and Bully) to make them engage around 3000 Rpm or where Sportsman Flyer has them set? Have you ever done it?
thingswithwelding
New Member
Here is my build. Needs some final things and paint. I want to powder coat it but Im afraid the the Sportsman Flyer Crankset pressed bearings will get damaged trying to remove them before powdercoating. The bearings have rubber seals and the frame is required to go in an oven. I might just mask it and use Auto paint.
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Sweet looking bike. If it was me I would pull the pedal shaft out of the bearing holders and then gently tap the bearing holders out of the bottom bracket from the opposite side using a length of wooden dowel and a hammer so you don't mess up the bearings.
Make sure you hit the bearing holders and not the bearings. If you go around it gently and from side to side so it comes out evenly and doesn't twist in the bottom bracket you should be OK.
I'd make sure to tell the powder coater not to get powder inside the bottom bracket. The bearings went into my bottom bracket tightly and if there was powder coating in there they never would have fit until I ground it out.
Bully presets the clutch to engage at 1,800 rpm and then tests it to make sure it does. All you have to do is install it. I would imagine that Cheetah does the same thing but I went with Bully because Pat sells them so I know they are good and builders like Culver City Classics and Norm at Venice Bikes who builds top of the line bikes use them.
Steve.
Make sure you hit the bearing holders and not the bearings. If you go around it gently and from side to side so it comes out evenly and doesn't twist in the bottom bracket you should be OK.
I'd make sure to tell the powder coater not to get powder inside the bottom bracket. The bearings went into my bottom bracket tightly and if there was powder coating in there they never would have fit until I ground it out.
Bully presets the clutch to engage at 1,800 rpm and then tests it to make sure it does. All you have to do is install it. I would imagine that Cheetah does the same thing but I went with Bully because Pat sells them so I know they are good and builders like Culver City Classics and Norm at Venice Bikes who builds top of the line bikes use them.
Steve.
thingswithwelding
New Member
Thanks for the Complement. I had the same thought on the "tapping it out" method. I purchased my bottom shell new from a frame builder supplier. Its chromoly. They went in tight as well. I pressed them in after applying a little bit of heat with a propane torch. I used a super heavy bench vise with wood blocks on each side. It took some pressure to get them in. I just feel they might not want to come out easy. I didnt build my frame on a jig so thats why I pre assembled and pressed it in for more accurate freehand alignment before welding. Its not as easy to get the shell straight alone without the sprocket and chain which helps alignment if you will. I want to build a frame jig, that way I know for sure things are square without pre assembly. I imagine the bearings will come out. If they cost 20 bucks for another set its worth it too because that black powdercoat sure is pretty when its finished. They want a lot of money to do it too. Yea, waiting on an email from Pat. I have a couple concerns. Im wondering if his Bully clutches only use #35 chain? If so, Im going to have to find another sprocket for my mid-area-input sprocket. Because Mine is 415 chain that came with the jackshaft plate kit from Gasbike.net. I found this #35 aluminum hub sprocket. Im wondering if its the one I need. I kind of think the lighter #35 chain may be a benefit too. Its lighter and has slightly smaller links that may give a somewhat smoother function. But its more parts I have to order. Having spar new parts after after a build isnt too much fun. It runs the bill up. It is what it is though. I guess I might need it later. The picture is from AGK website.
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The Bully clutch uses #35 chain. That is the same style of sprocket that I'm going to use. The Bully clutch comes with a 12 tooth standard and you can order an 11 tooth sprocket but it's $4 and change more. Depending on what you have on the clutch now they have higher tooth counts.
I was wondering if you had made the frame yourself. Pretty good to get it right free handing it. I would think that a frame jig would pay for it's self on the first build.
Steve.
I was wondering if you had made the frame yourself. Pretty good to get it right free handing it. I would think that a frame jig would pay for it's self on the first build.
Steve.
thingswithwelding
New Member
I know the Bully clutch comes with a #35. I was wondering if they option for the bigger beefier chain like the 215 or standard motorbike chain. There is a couple chains (besides the #35) that all fit the same sprocket. Thats the one my jackshaft plate is. I will have to convert it if the Bully dont offer it. Im waiting on email from Sportsman Flyer still. Yes, I made the frame myself. I made temporary wood jigs for certain tubes to hold it in place. But wood cant be reused as many times as steel. It cracks and other problems come about. It works though for one off builds. Especially if you use a good wood. Steel is the way to go though. Yea, I need to make a jig.
I wouldn't worry about using #35 chain. When I was looking around the internet I came across a go kart site and they were discussing the best chain to use. One guy pretty much ended the discussion when he said that his 18 hp engines used #35 chain to power his cart and he'd used it for years. He included a photo of the wall of trophies and a bunch on the floor.
I've heard that KTM chain is the best and I think it was the KTM Gold that came already stetched.
Steve.
I've heard that KTM chain is the best and I think it was the KTM Gold that came already stetched.
Steve.
thingswithwelding
New Member
I just measured my bore length on my cheapy clutch. Its 2 5/16ths as well. Im stoked. I see yours came in a case? Did a shaft bushing come with it? Its that little ring that mates the clutch end to the shaft step precisely? Pleas let me know. Im going to order my conversion sprocket. Inbelieve its the one from AGK. Cheers.
thingswithwelding
New Member
Im just worried about that #35 conversion sprocket fitting my jackshaft. Im pretty sure the bolt pattern is the same. I have a mill if I need to open the bore a tad bit. I just dont want any extra sets of holes if I can help it.
thingswithwelding
New Member
This is my #415. The shaft is 5/8. AGK advertises their #35 sprocket as a "jackshaft mini hub sprocket". They make an identical system as mine here. Im goping its the sprocket I need. They dont give any technical information to bolt circle measurements. The tooth count matches. Im guessing they would use the same pattern.
