Electric Cargo Bike Build
- Thread starter cannonball2
- Start date
Bike is basically finished. Painted the battery tray, installed the Planet Bike fenders(which fit like a glove), installed the volt/ammeter and finalized/neatened up the wiring. Dang ammeter took 5 additional wires, its own battery pack, and a shunt! Will add the rest of the cargo pieces soon. Really pleased with the results. The thing rolls forever on the 1.5 tires set at 50lbs, but is enough of a rough rider to warrant a suspension seat post(on the way).
Watching the ammeter is interesting. 15.5amps is the max draw limited by the controller. It will cruise around 20 pulling 7-8amps, 9-12 at WOT depending on terrain. Even in the flats there are enough uneven spots to pull higher amps. As I thought pull from a dead stop amperage is high, the max, 15.5. If pedaled to around 6mph the pull is around 10 until it unloads and settles to cruise. A good way to extend range. Has been a really enjoyable build, enjoyed building the battery too.
Watching the ammeter is interesting. 15.5amps is the max draw limited by the controller. It will cruise around 20 pulling 7-8amps, 9-12 at WOT depending on terrain. Even in the flats there are enough uneven spots to pull higher amps. As I thought pull from a dead stop amperage is high, the max, 15.5. If pedaled to around 6mph the pull is around 10 until it unloads and settles to cruise. A good way to extend range. Has been a really enjoyable build, enjoyed building the battery too.
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I believe its pretty universal in its fit, that was the goal of its developer to be able to be used universally all over the world. Its a snap to install. If one is really going to haul serious cargo a multispeed bike is a must to be able to start off with a 200lb load. Heres a vid of a bike move. Last bike is a cargo bike that is similar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkRcd6LecTE
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CB2,
So what is your take on electric biking as opposed to gas biking?
I haven't tried electrics mainly due to fear of the unknown, cost & range.
I'm thinking having 'silent power' would be super-cool!
Thanks,
-Lowracer-
So what is your take on electric biking as opposed to gas biking?
I haven't tried electrics mainly due to fear of the unknown, cost & range.
I'm thinking having 'silent power' would be super-cool!
Thanks,
-Lowracer-
Kinda apples and oranges LR. I like both IC and electric. For long range its still IC, but now that I have moved to an urban area the electric is really viable.I can make the 10mi round trip to town center 3 times on a charge. I like pretty much everything about it especially its near silence and cleanliness. Its gotten cheaper to put together an entry level bike, my kit cost $239 shipped. It came with everything sans the battery. Of course it ranges from something like my set up all the way to something like a Stealth Bomber(you would like) with tons of stuff in between. Battery tech has come so far that range is getting on out there. The battery is where the $$ is spent. I have two batteries both Li-Ion. One home built($100+) which works well and has basically a 30-35mi range. I have a purchased battery($400!!) that I hope will range around 50+mi. Cool thing is the relative simplicity of the basic system, its plug and play, no need to fear the unknown. I favor the brushless hub motor because its a simple bolt on. They make front and rear hub motors so you can have all wheel drive too! There are mid mount units. If you want a shifter E bike check out SBPs kit, pretty cool! I would say go for it. With your creativity no telling what might emerge!
Thought I posted the final pics of the bike, guess not, so here it is in its final cargo configuration The side extenders will be removed most of the time, they snap on and off quickly. The whole cargo system can be quickly removed for maintenance/repairs. Its a well designed system. Really amazed at how light the unit is. 59lbs including the battery, 23 of which is the hub motor and battery. There is a loop in the Xtracycle frame extender in the area of bikes frame triangle. Is designed to be used a handle to carry the bike. I carried the bike up stairs into the house last night and it didn't feel as heavy as it really is. Gotta watch the length though it will knock over the other halfs prize posessions!
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Awesome job on your bike CB2. It looks super clean.
Have ou checked the mileage on your bike yet?
Have ou checked the mileage on your bike yet?
Thanks ER! My first charge on the homebuilt battery was around 30mi and that was on less than full capacity. I am checking this charge which was charged to around 95%(4.15v/cell to take it easy on the pack) and hoping for a bit more. Now that I have the ammeter installed I can monitor battery usage better. With assistance the cruise amperage in the 9/10amp range will drop to 5/6 amps @ around 20mph, my bikes gearing runs out around 22, so when assisting I keep it around 20. If I really want to spend some amps I can cruise 25+ unassisted but its burning 15+amps there. The homebuilt pack is 10.2ah, my purchased pack is 15ah. Haven't tried it yet.
Nice cargo ebike !
Home built battery pack made with recycled cells too !
Awesome job for sure !
Home built battery pack made with recycled cells too !
Awesome job for sure !
After asking a bunch of questions here and reading over at Endless Sphere, I built a capacitor pack for my speed control. Consists of 6) 63v low ESR caps in parallel. Will tap and solder them into the speed control input wires just before they enter the control. They will be mounted to the bottom of the control keeping the caps wiring as short as possible. Its amazing the juice they can hold! I charged them on the 48v battery, quite a spark on charge and discharge!
Also got the suspension seat post installed, made a great difference for a very few $$.
Also got the suspension seat post installed, made a great difference for a very few $$.
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Heres a pic of the caps installed. They are soldered are as close to the controls battery inputs as easily possible. Well insulated with electrical tape then armored with fiber glass packing tape to prevent any chaffing.
I found a good practical explanation of the advantage of doing this on one of my R/C forums. The controllers are built with ideal wire length to keep the internal caps from overheating. Keeping the battery as close to the speed control is mandatory. When wiring must be lengthened caps should be added at the rate of 220uf/4 inches(think this length is correct). If one has a battery with long leads that aren't necessary shorten them, if you cant and/or if the controller wires have been lengthened add caps. Also twist or tape the cap wiring together to cut down on inductance not sure I remember the reason correctly, but just do it. The addition of bigger wiring to lengthen a controllers wiring has little effect. Lengthening the motor wiring is ok. Also seems like over capacitance with in reason is not a critical issue, as is voltage as long as its well over operational voltage. This hopefully will help folks like me who have a limited understanding of this concept.
You experts feel free to add, subtract, or correct this explanation.
I found a good practical explanation of the advantage of doing this on one of my R/C forums. The controllers are built with ideal wire length to keep the internal caps from overheating. Keeping the battery as close to the speed control is mandatory. When wiring must be lengthened caps should be added at the rate of 220uf/4 inches(think this length is correct). If one has a battery with long leads that aren't necessary shorten them, if you cant and/or if the controller wires have been lengthened add caps. Also twist or tape the cap wiring together to cut down on inductance
not sure I remember the reason correctly, but just do it. The addition of bigger wiring to lengthen a controllers wiring has little effect. Lengthening the motor wiring is ok. Also seems like over capacitance with in reason is not a critical issue, as is voltage as long as its well over operational voltage. This hopefully will help folks like me who have a limited understanding of this concept.You experts feel free to add, subtract, or correct this explanation.
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So after several miles riding with the caps installed I have noticed a few differences. The throttle response seems smoother/more linear. Also the ammeter/amp draw seems more stable on the read out. Used to jump around like crazy and make holding a given setting some what difficult. Acceleration at least initially seems better. And lastly it seems to cruise at slightly less amperage for a given speed. That could be the more stable read out on the ammeter though. Total cost for this mod is $7 and a little bit of time. I highly recommend it!
Thanks SB! Hopefully this thread along with the one on the battery build will remove some of the intimidation factor folks have about an e bike build. Its not quite as challenging as I feared, at least for a simple usable build.
If you want your head to spin, spend some time reading what the gurus are up to over at Endless Sphere!
If you want your head to spin, spend some time reading what the gurus are up to over at Endless Sphere!
Yes, I've been tucking away bits and pieces of information from both threads which will be helpful this summer when I'm putting together a hybrid trike. I've had one of the first 36V golden motor front wheel kits for years now. I had it on a two wheeled bike for a time and the lead acid batteries were cumbersome and heavy. With so-so brakes I felt like I was riding on a missle of some kind (not the speed part, but the weight factor) and it just wasn't for me, so I put it on the shelf until now. I figured with a trike the battery weight was less important and having a gas motor would extend the range a bunch. I've known that the wheel would also work with 48V, but the cost of good batteries and having to invest in another controller and charger has tempered my enthusiasm. Your home made battery pack has been an eye opener and I will do it in a 36V version in order to use what I have. I can also switch over to 48V in the future if need be.
This will be my geezer trike build as an investment you might say for the time when I'm less mobile but still want to be able to ride. The bike is a 63 Schwinn American Deluxe ladies model so it will have an easy step through. Gas engine will be in back utilizing a 98cc villiars 2 stroke from a 1950's Atco mower with a kick start. Kind of a putt putt motor. I'm getting all the parts together in order to use a riding mower differential axle and up front the electric pancake motor.
Your explanations and photos are much appreciated.
SB
This will be my geezer trike build as an investment you might say for the time when I'm less mobile but still want to be able to ride. The bike is a 63 Schwinn American Deluxe ladies model so it will have an easy step through. Gas engine will be in back utilizing a 98cc villiars 2 stroke from a 1950's Atco mower with a kick start. Kind of a putt putt motor. I'm getting all the parts together in order to use a riding mower differential axle and up front the electric pancake motor.
Your explanations and photos are much appreciated.
SB
Glad I was able to share what I learned. If your controller can easily be opened do so and see if the capacitor is 63v if so the controller will support 48v which is preferable to 36. Only takes a few more cells to get there. Might as well do it if you can while you are at it, when you get around to it. Chargers are fairly cheap. I am going to expand my pack to 14s (cell groups) to 51.8v, just have to add 4 cells in the right order. Will charge to 58v(my 48v charger puts out 59v). Should really scoot for the first part of the charge!
Your trike sounds really cool! I should have used a step thru on the cargo bike as you cant throw a leg over when its really loaded.
Your trike sounds really cool! I should have used a step thru on the cargo bike as you cant throw a leg over when its really loaded.
I'll think about going to 48V, but may wait until later for that. I have two controllers. The one I cooked by reversing the wires (polarity). Got a second one from a guy upgrading to 48V. I'm wondering what would have cooked in the first one... the capacitor by chance?
Yes, a step through makes sense especially for geezers in training, like me. I want to make things easy for myself so that I enjoy the trike as much as possible. I'm also considering an upholstered wicker seat with a back for really comfy riding.
I have another question, this time having nothing to do with electrics. How long is your rear axle? I have a few differential axles from riding mowers, but they are only 24" long. I'm wondering if that's enough for a half way stable ride. I've learned from my sidecar that taking corners on three wheels is best done slower and with caution. Also the front fork is from a light motorcycle and being suspended should help some with a stable ride. I know wider is better, but wondering what is wide enough.
SB
Yes, a step through makes sense especially for geezers in training, like me. I want to make things easy for myself so that I enjoy the trike as much as possible. I'm also considering an upholstered wicker seat with a back for really comfy riding.
I have another question, this time having nothing to do with electrics. How long is your rear axle? I have a few differential axles from riding mowers, but they are only 24" long. I'm wondering if that's enough for a half way stable ride. I've learned from my sidecar that taking corners on three wheels is best done slower and with caution. Also the front fork is from a light motorcycle and being suspended should help some with a stable ride. I know wider is better, but wondering what is wide enough.
SB
I don't have a trike. Im thinking you have the rather common chain driven differential? That should have a 3/4" axle. You should easily be able to extend the width with a coupler and some 3/4 shafting making it any width you want. You can either weld or cross bolt the coupling. 24" seems a little narrow.