Manic Mechanic hub adapter No longer SLIPS!!!!!!!!!

[sylarbrodie]

ok if anyone is still reading this and interested even after all my anxious rants!! i now finally got this dang hub adapter to stop slipping. I came to terms that just having it clamped with even 20lbs of force was not enough to keep that dang adapter from slipping. i have an ezqmatic tranny so i assumed because its such a beast that there was just too much power with that baby to keep a just clamped adapter still.

what i ended up doing is buying a dremel type tool. the no name version. way cheaper. and got a few bits to go along with it that would tear through metal like buttah.

I saw a video a guy had on this forum and he made a key way for the adapter to the hub. AHHHHHHHH finally something that made sense. due to simple physic laws this seemed to be the best idea yet and man was it. took a bit of time to carve into the adapter and the hub but it was all worth the time. I now have a realiable motorized bicycle.

Please msg me if you have an adapter that slips and need help modifying your hub and adapter with a key way. I feel like i know that thing inside out since it took me about three days to finish all of it lol.

Hazzah!!!!!

 

[maniac57]

Great idea! Pics?
I have to confess...
I've been feeling kinda smug watching this thread since I like the stock ragjoint. Not that I wish problems on anyone, but it made me feel a bit sanctimonious seeing the big dollar part not working while my ragjoints just keep piling on the miles...
(although I'd be miffed too after spending for the "upgrade" and still needing to modify it)
Your key way idea is a great fix that I will not forget and you should be praised for not giving up.
I salute you!

 

[mapbike]

Great idea! Pics?
I have to confess...
I've been feeling kinda smug watching this thread since I like the stock ragjoint. Not that I wish problems on anyone, but it made me feel a bit sanctimonious seeing the big dollar part not working while my ragjoints just keep piling on the miles...
(although I'd be miffed too after spending for the "upgrade" and still needing to modify it)
Your key way idea is a great fix that I will not forget and you should be praised for not giving up.
I salute you!

well said......

 

[sylarbrodie]

@maniac57 Wow I completely agree with mapbike.. Very well said. I def will take pics. Man thank you for the kind words. It has been a struggle to finally have a reliable bike. I think its very cool that you have success with the rag joint. You must be very good at getting that sprocket not to wobble and overall really good at understanding how the motorbike behaves. I'm slowly but surely getting there. Again thank you for the kind words. That made my day/night. Here is the video where i got the idea from. I highly recommend everyone who owns a hub like that not to rely on clamping only. Theres a reason why cogs have teeth and not just a smooth surface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL28GtEw3LE

the guy in the video doesnt give dimensions but i watched the video about a million times.... and came up with really nice numbers.

the key i bout was key stock over at home depot. about $.70 1/4x1/2 grind it into a crescent shape. The vid shows better than i can explain here. the tip of the crescent which is the main part the locks into the hub i measured at about 1mm.

Hub Adapter Measurements....
cut a notch into bottom part of the hub assembly only. just cut a rectangle type notch 1/8" vertical cut and 1/4" horizontal in the center of the hub adapter. The video shows exactly what it will look like.

The flat side of the key should slide snug into the key way you just made. I used a Tungsten Carbide Dremel Bit. Cost is about $10. if your key doesnt lay snug in there to the point where you can turn it upside down and not fall out like a dairy queen blizzard then just make a pop can shim to hug the key. Just make sure you take a few extra minutes to make the shim very nice and neat.

Now the fun part..... jk i hated doing this part lol. i pretty much bought a brand new double wall rim, new hub and spokes..tire and tube to just beat it up lol

take your roto tool and put on a diamond tipped wheel and scratch out literally (check out the video) a groove where the crescent part of the key will rest. Dimensions should be 1/8" you can go a little less but make sure you have straight edges on the walls you create so there is as much grip on the key as possible. Pay a lot of attention to the wall closest to the front of the bike because A LOT of the force is focused there. Thats why it always slips. Think newtons first law of motion.

the main part on the hub that grips the crescent part of the key way.... measures at about 1mm

watch the video a lot and email me if you have questions. i promise if you do everything the way i kinda explained here and the way the guy in the video explains. you will not regret cutting up your hub and adaptor.

Thank you and take Care

 

[bigbutterbean]

I have a Howard adapter, which is designed to accept the kit sprocket and has 3 pieces that clamp together, creating a much stronger gripping force than the adapters that only clamp twice. I don't even use a torque wrench, just a regular socket wrench and tighten them as tight as they will go. I haven't had any problems with slippage. However, I have heard of the keyway idea before, and if I were having issues with slippage, it would be the first thing I tried. Congrats on getting your adapter working. The rag joints can be ok, and if you have the patience to toy around with them till you get them right, they can be reliable. But the adapter takes all the guesswork and dicking around out of it, and pretty much lets you bolt on and go without a second thought.I used the ragjoints for over 3 years, but when I went to tackle my first custom bike I knew I wanted an adapter. When they work right, you just cant beat the reliability and ease of installation.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Sprocket hub adapters that are accurately sized to your hub and
are tightened to the specified torque setting DO NOT SLIP.

There are Thousands of Sprocket hub adapters installed on bikes
that are NOT Slipping!

Your Sprocket hub adapter has been mickey moused by adding a
machined shim to an adapter that was the wrong size for your hub.

This thread is very misleading because you didn't add it to your old
thread where you revealed after many posts that you were using a
badly fitting, jerry rigged Sprocket hub adapter.
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=48652

Sprocket hub adapters do NOT need a key way added to make them
not slip.

ok if anyone is still reading this and interested even after all my anxious rants!! i now finally got this dang hub adapter to stop slipping. I came to terms that just having it clamped with even 20lbs of force was not enough to keep that dang adapter from slipping.

i have an ez qmatic tranny so i assumed because its such a beast that there was just too much power with that baby to keep a just clamped adapter still.

Actually a Q Matic uses a 1/2" V belt and they will slip like crazy unlike a transmission that
uses chain and sprockets.

 

[bowljoman]

And now maybe that keyway is the start of a major catastrophic failure.

We are slowly going to stress and hammer on your key way in the hub until it peels back like aluminum foil on a burrito.

Then all at once while going over a bump with the throttle on, the hub will split like a cuff with only a messy sinew of spokes and spoke-ring, flying belt/chain mess, and ass dragging folded rim....

Maybe not.... Maybe so...

 

[2door]

And now maybe that keyway is the start of a major catastrophic failure.

We are slowly going to stress and hammer on your key way in the hub until it peels back like aluminum foil on a burrito.

Then all at once while going over a bump with the throttle on, the hub will split like a cuff with only a messy sinew of spokes and spoke-ring, flying belt/chain mess, and ass dragging folded rim....

Maybe not.... Maybe so...

Sorry to say it but this was what occured to me too. I have to wonder how much you've compromised the integrity of the rear hub. Be careful, my man.

I'm also one who doesn't have any problems with the rag joint but I also concur that properly sized and torqued, hub adapters don't slip.

Tom

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Great idea! Pics?
I have to confess...
I've been feeling kinda smug watching this thread since I like the stock ragjoint. Not that I wish problems on anyone, but it made me feel a bit sanctimonious seeing the big dollar part not working while my ragjoints just keep piling on the miles...
(although I'd be miffed too after spending for the "upgrade" and still needing to modify it)
Your key way idea is a great fix that I will not forget and you should be praised for not giving up.
I salute you!

Not a good idea and totally unnecessary for a sprocket adapter user.

You see sylarbrodie forgot to mention that he didn't have a sprocket
adapter like the one everyone else has. He ordered the wrong size and
decided to patch it with a shim to try to make it work.

Don't get too smug because MM made a few sprocket adapters that were
sized for 5/8" diameter hubs and when they were correctly tightened
they didn't slip!

MM never sold the 5/8" size to the general public because they would muck
it up.

Your enthusiasm for this keyway mod is misplaced and $45 for a sprocket hub
adapter hardly falls into the big dollar category.

 

[biknut]

Just torque your hub adapter to 25 ft lb and it won't slip. It's really as simple as that.

 

[chainmaker]

The most obvious solution here would have been to use the correct fitting part first. After your hub is slowly pulled apart and you need to get a new hub and spokes and probably a new adapter set up, the savings you realized at first will be gone.

 

[KCvale]

I have no problems with rag joint sprockets either, especially on 7-speed hubs as the hub is the same size as the sprocket hole, but if you really don't want to dick with any of it just buy a hub that the sprocket and adapter can just screw on to.

You had to unlace your hub to grove it and then re-lace the wheel yourself correct?
The beauty of bolt on stuff is you don't need to do that but if you are going to pull the hub anyway why not just do it right?

You can buy a Heavy Duty single speed freewheel hub with dual threads on the left with the sprocket of your choice 44, 48, or 50T with screw on adapter, and a screw on band brake for $50 from GasBike.net.

The HD axle (4 bearings I think) is really nice and will take 12g spokes, the band brake is OK but nothing to write home about but as your bike doesn't have a V in back as it was a coaster brake it is needed.
I'll bet this one thing would even make a Huffy a decent bike as their rear hubs suck and fail no matter what you use.

I do applaud the creativity to 'make something go with what is at hand' but unless I am missing something you had to unlace the wheel to do this, it cost you 3 days and $70 for original parts, then more new parts, it may not hold up and may have possibly compromised the hub, and then you had to lace the wheel back up for more that this.

I guess my point is if you look around there may something far better and in the long run cheaper than a Primitive Pete* solution.

If you know who Primitive Pete is just smile and remember the '70s shop class 16mm projector shop class movies with fondness ;-}

 

[maniac57]

I was praising him for not giving up and making do with a problem part. The fact he got the wrong part is really not relevant to my reply.
He kept on plugging away at his problem till he found a solution that lets him ride his bike.
I respect that.
You should too.
If it explodes down the road, he will learn a valuable lesson and will do something else next time.

Keep in mind, these kits are not meant to be high tech racers, they are meant to putt around with a big grin.
You are judging him compared to your race mentality, which not everyone has.
Some guys don't care if they have the latest, best setup. They just want to ride.

 

[2door]

Maniac,
I can appreciate your stand on this but you can't argue that grinding a slot in the hub could potentially lead to a structural failure that might get him hurt. I too applaud innovation and the make-it-work attitude but safety is a viable concern that needs to be addressed. I'd rather seem the man not riding that laying around mending injuries after making a mistake.

Tom

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Just torque your hub adapter to 25 ft lb and it won't slip. It's really as simple as that.

You got it!
Just crank it down 5 ft lbs more than the 20 ft lbs he was using.

I also would have permanently attached the shim to the sprocket adapter
so that it was one piece.
Don't know what part was slipping or loose?

A thin piece of aluminum could have been added between the machined
shim and the Sprocket adapter before making them one.

 

[mapbike]

I have no problems with rag joint sprockets either, especially on 7-speed hubs as the hub is the same size as the sprocket hole, but if you really don't want to dick with any of it just buy a hub that the sprocket and adapter can just screw on to.

You had to unlace your hub to grove it and then re-lace the wheel yourself correct?
The beauty of bolt on stuff is you don't need to do that but if you are going to pull the hub anyway why not just do it right?

You can buy a Heavy Duty single speed freewheel hub with dual threads on the left with the sprocket of your choice 44, 48, or 50T with screw on adapter, and a screw on band brake for $50 from GasBike.net.

The HD axle (4 bearings I think) is really nice and will take 12g spokes, the band brake is OK but nothing to write home about but as your bike doesn't have a V in back as it was a coaster brake it is needed.
I'll bet this one thing would even make a Huffy a decent bike as their rear hubs suck and fail no matter what you use.

I do applaud the creativity to 'make something go with what is at hand' but unless I am missing something you had to unlace the wheel to do this, it cost you 3 days and $70 for original parts, then more new parts, it may not hold up and may have possibly compromised the hub, and then you had to lace the wheel back up for more that this.

I guess my point is if you look around there may something far better and in the long run cheaper than a Primitive Pete* solution.

If you know who Primitive Pete is just smile and remember the '70s shop class 16mm projector shop class movies with fondness ;-}

I have a Huffy Hub with 1000 very hard miles and most in nothing but dust and dirt road conditions, if you want a Huffy Hub or probably most other almost bullet proof, tare them down and pack them with a special industrial grease made by a company called Arrow Magnolia the Grease is called PEAK and it is the best I've ever seen hands down, my Dad did industrial Engineer and R and D work in all types of mechanics for many years, he used about everything out there and settled on this PEAK as the best of the best under high stress and heat situations, I pack all my bearings with it, it will NOT come out even under extreme heat and stress..... you want bearing to last like crazy.... put this in them.

My Huffy Hub has never been adjusted and the wheel is still as tight as it was when newly greased and put together, I do the front bearings as well.

Its not cheap by any means but it is worth it if you want excellent bearing life.

Map


http://www.arrowmagnolia.com/productcart/pc/PEAK-52p1304.htm

http://www.arrowmagnolia.com/productcart/pc/PEAK-52p1305.htm

 

[maniac57]

Maniac,
I can appreciate your stand on this but you can't argue that grinding a slot in the hub could potentially lead to a structural failure that might get him hurt. I too applaud innovation and the make-it-work attitude but safety is a viable concern that needs to be addressed. I'd rather seem the man not riding that laying around mending injuries after making a mistake.

Tom

I seriously doubt a slot will cause the hub to explode unless he really went nuts with the dremel. Pics would help us decide...
Pics OP?
Come on, man! Help me defend you!

 

[KCvale]

I seriously doubt a slot will cause the hub to explode unless he really went nuts with the dremel. Pics would help us decide...
Pics OP?
Come on, man! Help me defend you!

I commended the man on his ingenuity as we have all been there and had to '(insert slander word of choice here) rigged' something and hopped for the best and not my point at all as I sincerely hope his fix for the wrong size part works out great for him.

Maybe it has been my early years of 'rigging' things opposed to just doing it right and seeing the result or over a decade experience with forums and how long information stays around that others may search for and find in a forum that is really not the best advice, so I express an alternative view to be considered not just at the moment or for the given person but years down the road.

It may be impossible to impart wisdom or experience on another it doesn't hurt to try even if it only helps one person don't you think?

 

[maniac57]

I fully agree. Rigging stuff is not for everyone. It takes a lot of experience to stay out of trouble and most people would be better off exchanging the part rather than modifying it.
I still think he did a good fix for this particular problem since he could not exchange it due to whatever reason.

 

[sylarbrodie]

ok. I figured it's about time I posted a little bit on this thread. It got pretty intense at times. Let me start out by saying that I love love Love my Manic Mechanic Adapter. If i didnt discover that thing... I probably would be completely bald due to me tearing my hair out of frustration. By no means am I bashing the rag joint because there are ton's of people out there that have a lot of success with them. I think they are amazing people keeping it simple.

okk.... here's the news about the key way.......!!!!!

Drum Rolllll!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait for it!!!!!

It has worked like a charm and I am extremely pleased with it. I took extreme care when working on the hub. I made sure that I knew the amount of thickness I was playing with so I would not cause weakness in the hub it's self. I've been paying very close attention to the hub. Inspecting it daily and periodically through out my rides which are quite long rides.

Let me also add. My top speed is usually a relaxed 25-28mph.... Flat streets... the occasional bridge and small pot hole...

I live in Indiana/Chicago area.. very chill riding wise.

I cant give an exact mile count but I've ridden the new mod.. i would say about 5-6 hours of ride time. I love that the adapter has not moved a bit. I feel extremely safe on this bike and have full confidence that it will not give me any trouble. As stated before I took extreme caution when modifying everything... and also applied all my knowledge of physics to the project so I would be safe and finally reach a goal I set about a year and some change ago to finally build A RELIABLE SOURCE OF TRANSPORTATION.

and WOOT WOOT!!! Finally there.

I completely agree with KCvale and Maniac57.. rigging is not for everyone. But for those of us who trust our selves to take on such tasks then rig on. I'd prefer a different word than rig ... cuz rigging usually means it has a decent chance to fail. but I know what yall mean lol.. you guys are the successful riggers or builders or.. hmmmmm.. creators ... artists... ummm.... i think you get the point lol.

But anyways I really appreciate everyones input and I really mean everyone. I really took to heart the replies that were towards my personal safety and those messages made me even more serious about the mod and making sure I take monitoring of the key way even more serious than I already have been. So thank you guys.

I will keep y'all posted on the key way mod. So far it's the best decision for ME to have made. I guess I have to take back what I said and say it's not for everybody. Make sure you get an adaptor that fits your hub the way it was designed. Unfortunately I didn't have that luxury so I had to do what I had to do. And I have not in the slightest way looked back and wished anything different. I really love how much you get to learn about yourself, your skills and confidence in this hobby. Flat out it Fraggin Rocks!!!!!


Please excuse the rant and novel but I am extremely happy to say though that I feel like I finally conquered my goals in this Motor Bicycle build hobby. Thank you guys.

 

[2door]

Thanks for the update and for explaining that you did in fact take hub thickness into consideration. Most of us applaud innovation (a better word than "rig") and enjoy seeing a concept work for the builder.

Because of a recent mishap I'm maybe a little over cautious when it comes to bike safety. My accident was the result of a fastener failure that had been inspected and thought to be completely reliable. Nevertheless I got hurt and that's the last thing we want for anyone involved in this hobby.

Congratulations on your fix. Enjoy your bike, have fun and ride safe.

Tom