A real plausable effort to modify State motorized bicycle Laws
- Thread starter KCvale
- Start date
i wish NY would legalize MBs. i can only keep wishing though knowing how NY is. ill just keep slipping around not getting caught lol
If you read the first post of this topic you can see I started back in 2009 to relax the rule on motorized bicycles here in AZ.
Major progress this year I am tickled to report.
I now have the ear of one of my reps and included the reporter for the Arizona Republic Newspaper in the conversation, she reports daily in the Valley section about what the State Legislature is up to and seldom in a complementary way so they all know who she is ;-}
Right now is about safety issues for them, any thoughts besides what you may have added in signing my Petition?
You have read and signed my Petition to relax AZ motorized bicycle Laws right?
http://kcsbikes.com/AZRS28-2516.htm#statute
Chime in but it is crunch time, I have 15 days to get my rep to introduce it or that's that for another frigg'n years wait.
Major progress this year I am tickled to report.
I now have the ear of one of my reps and included the reporter for the Arizona Republic Newspaper in the conversation, she reports daily in the Valley section about what the State Legislature is up to and seldom in a complementary way so they all know who she is ;-}
Right now is about safety issues for them, any thoughts besides what you may have added in signing my Petition?
You have read and signed my Petition to relax AZ motorized bicycle Laws right?
http://kcsbikes.com/AZRS28-2516.htm#statute
Chime in but it is crunch time, I have 15 days to get my rep to introduce it or that's that for another frigg'n years wait.
None of them have any clue about motorized bicycles let alone their safety and so are reluctant to research it for a tiny special interest.
So be it, I'm doing the research myself and making a case using the states own limited stats and my own 'credible source' bias ;-}
The state stats do not differentiate between assisted non-assisted bicycle deaths or injuries but I have the info and bicycle related deaths of any kind make up only 2% of all non-natural cases deaths in AZ the last 5 years.
I'll post the version of my plea when I polish it up but I am really a big proponent of common sense cheap safety like dual brakes and front strobe for 30MPH daytime operation, over 75% of all bike accents thje last 5 years have occurred in in clear dry warm daytime operation.
The only thing the city council here in Tucson stressed to us was that adding the weight of a motor to a bicycle makes the brakes unsafe. Thats why they insisted on a 20mph speed limit.
A few of us was able to prove that was hogwash.
According to them a motorized bicycle is unsafe above 20mph. But if i open my wallet and spend $10 for registration fee's and get insurance and have my bike registered as a moped, all of sudden its safe to go faster then 20mph.
A few of us was able to prove that was hogwash.
According to them a motorized bicycle is unsafe above 20mph. But if i open my wallet and spend $10 for registration fee's and get insurance and have my bike registered as a moped, all of sudden its safe to go faster then 20mph.
My 30MPH change to regs says a brake on both wheels for a reason, it is just flat stupid to operate a motorized bicycle without good brakes and I won't let anything out of my shop with just one lame brake even if it means my buying and installing a front brake for some poor guy with a bike someone else built that just needed some service for free.
That said...
It is with great pleasure and pride I announce that my little crusade to re-define AZ law regarding motor assisted bicycles is now officially 'born'.
For those that haven't been following along or read the AZBill educational document I refer to often about what it takes to get any State law action even considered has to happen first, allow me to recap.
A sponsor and a few procedural steps are needed until it gets to the magical First Real 'Birth' Step, that being it actually being assigned an official HR Bill Number.
With that allow me to introduce you to the birth of AZ HR2177
http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/51leg/1r/bills/hb2177o.asp&Session_ID=110
At the moment he is a tiny ugly little sucker, not much more than a place holder text for exactly how everything motorized bicycle related should be worded in one all encompassing statute, and I know there are many differing opinions about them, but nothing happens without the'magic bill number' that has to be 'born' in the House in the first 30 days of the legislative session or tough luck without a special session.
Welcome to Arizona 'Little Bill 2177', I hope to help you grow and become a big strong Arizona Law that could be a model for other states handling motor assisted bicycle laws, and we now have all year to raise you proper in the right houses and committees to move you along.
If you read AZ Bill you will see this is only step 1 of many steps but not just the hardest to achieve, it is the most crucial one.
Yes, this could all go horribly wrong and I could end up killing the community I am trying to help, but one thing is for sure, I got this far and I'm not giving up or going down without a fight or a brawl if need be now.
I am no Mr. Smith goes to Washington but I'll keep doing what I can ;-}
I think of you every time I consult the 'other' AZ Bill bud ;-}this 'azbill' just read your AZ Bill !!!
good luck KC, let's hope it passes !!!
It is just a foot in the door but a start.
KC,
As the saying goes "A journey of a 1,000 miles begins with the first footstep". Let's hope The younger A.Z. Bill breaks out into a fast jog and makes it to the finish line in good order.
Steve.
As the saying goes "A journey of a 1,000 miles begins with the first footstep". Let's hope The younger A.Z. Bill breaks out into a fast jog and makes it to the finish line in good order.
Steve.
I'm all for it, but it does not make sense that they will allow a unregistered, uninsured motorized bicycle to do 30mph when a registered, insured and must have a drivers license mopeds can only do 25mph in the state of AZ.
To tell you the truth I dont mind being requested as long as it is not so hard that its cheaper to buy a motorcycle then put all the crap on a bicycle to match a moped .
Yet another stupid example of the first restrictions placed on cheap personal transportation and I like Mo-Ped's, my little sister had a Vespa for a time I rode and felt pretty safe and comfortable on it.
My point is they 'over safety' regulated the MoPeds out of existence and not my fight but a good point in the big picture of motor assisted bicycle rules.
Velodrome, sign the petition and watch my forum topic for if and when it may be time for an motorized bicycle rally at the Capitol and voice in a committee hearing with our real life props.
The petition link is in this topic and on my web site.
Humm. Post 20. I already signed a while back. PM me when your ready to storm the capital with motored bikes 
I'll take a day off if nessary and can take someone else as 2 bikes will fit in my truck. Thats legal bikes for the display.... 
I'll take a day off if nessary and can take someone else as 2 bikes will fit in my truck. Thats legal bikes for the display.... 
Like someone I know said - If you poke a bear with a stick you had better be aware that he might bite.
Posted somewhere else:
If I lived in AZ and was a motorized bicycle enthusiast, I'd be mad.
The current law goes from this:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/02516.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS
And now after the meddling and openening a can of worms, the resultant proposed amendment looks like this:
http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/51leg/1r/bills/hb2177p.htm&Session_ID=110
Just remember, the authorities aren't stupid, and riding a motorized bicycle at 35mph is just plain not going to happen.
Posted somewhere else:
If I lived in AZ and was a motorized bicycle enthusiast, I'd be mad.
The current law goes from this:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/02516.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS
And now after the meddling and openening a can of worms, the resultant proposed amendment looks like this:
http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/51leg/1r/bills/hb2177p.htm&Session_ID=110
Just remember, the authorities aren't stupid, and riding a motorized bicycle at 35mph is just plain not going to happen.
"power output of no more than one thousand watts or one and three-tenths horsepower"
that aint progress
that aint progress
Since the Constitution says the government should make no laws that infringes upon our right to travel freely, why would we even want to set up rules in the first place? Your gasoline taxes should just about cover the maintenance a motorized bicycle would damage a roadway. As long as the existing traffic laws are obeyed, why allow more government regulation over our way of life? It should not be regulated any more than bicycles are. Just because someone puts a motor on their bicycle and makes it a hybrid does not mean we should allow government regulation. It is asking for trouble.
That bill is already dead so no changes this year."power output of no more than one thousand watts or one and three-tenths horsepower"
that aint progress
It is still 48cc and 19MPH or less top speed.
The bills author original intent was to put a limit on electrics as there are none in AZ and 1KW is dandy with me with no gearing restriction and I build them, the 1.3HP for gas is just a direct math conversion from 1KW to HP and she didn't understand the practical difference of power plants and how stupid it is given available gas power plants or to try and regulate that way for law enforcement anyway.
Landuse...
"If I lived in AZ and was a motorized bicycle enthusiast, I'd be mad.
Just remember, the authorities aren't stupid, and riding a motorized bicycle at 35mph is just plain not going to happen."
#1 I used 30MPH not 35MPH as a negotiating number, even 25MPH which is residential subdivision speed here so at least it is not school cross walk speed.
#2 I included safety language in my proposal for speeds greater than 20MPH I think every motorized bicycle should have regardless of size or speed anyway.
#3 I would conservatively estimate 75% or more of the gas motorized bicycles in AZ are over 48cc and illegal as it is, and nobody rides at 19MPH on a 35MPH road.
#4 Traffic patrol cops in the Phoenix Metro Area are not looking for mechanical power violations of people under motor power on the roadway just to hand out a ticket, they are looking for people operating on the roadway in an unsafe way.
I have logged thousands of city driving motorized bicycle riding miles in the 30MPH range and been seen countless times by police, I even had a police cruiser pace me on a 35MPH 3 lane road doing 30MPH. There were 2 cops in the car. I looked over at them, smiled, nodded my head and both smiled back and went on around me.
Why? Maybe because I always wear a helmet even though I am not required to, I stay to the right on the road, and have a flashing front light.
The point is, they didn't see me as a danger to myself or others and couldn't care less what was powering me.
#5 I don't know what the rules are where you live Landuse but I have had nothing but overwhelming support for my efforts to relax the motorized bicycle rules here, 235 AZ riders have voiced that opinion on my petition.
You are not in AZ Landuse, but by this time next year you may be eating your words and wishing someone in your state was standing up like I have been doing there and you could ride 30MPH with your 66cc legally ;-}
Hello KCvale! I think it's great that you are trying to get some very needed changes in motion. I am completely new to motorized bicycles but I am a bit worried about getting involved with them considering some of the laws in Arizona are quite frankly ridiculous.
The idea that your bike gets reclassified after exceeding 20mph is ridiculous and is one of the biggest concerns I have when getting involved in motorized bicycles. I've read horror stories from users that have had their bikes impounded, and never to be returned due to lack of evidence of ownership, not to mention thousands of dollars in fines.
As for the other revisions you have proposed, I agree with just about everyone else in saying that the engine limit should be raised to 50cc as opposed to 66cc. An argument can be made in favor of the bill in that a vast majority of motor assisted bicycle kits on the market are 49cc and 50cc. By limiting the engines to 48cc and below, a large majority of the affordable engines are unavailable to persons interested in using a motor assisted bicycle as a means of transportation. By raising the cc limit from 48 to 50, it can also easily be argued that the increase is, well quite literally negligible. I also think that by raising the cc limit a small amount, you can avoid proposals for HP limits.
I also agree with the majority of people here who think that 30mph is too high of a limit. 25mph is the default residential limit in most places here in Arizona, and I think it's important to note that mopeds are limited at 25mph. I think the idea that you are going to get the limit raised to 30 when licensed/registered mopeds are limited to 25mph is a pipe dream. The same goes for the proposed 66cc limit. Mopeds, which need to be registered with all the bells and whistles are limited to 49cc. I'm thinking the best way to go about this is to change the definition of Motor Assisted Bicycle to include pedals and a motor of no more than 50cc. This would help distinguish the motorbikes from the mopeds. Right now the defining wording which I think should also stay in place is "that may also be self-propelled." So what would define a motorized bicycle from a moped is that they both are 50cc or less but the motorized bicycle has pedals and can be self propelled.
You mentioned that the bill was dead, so no changes this year. I assume that means you are going to be reintroducing the proposed bill in 2014. Have you given any thought to any of the changes people have been suggesting, such as proposing a 50cc limit and a 25mph limit?
Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I'd really love to see this go somewhere, I just really doubt it's going to happen at 66cc and 30mph. Thanks again for taking the initiative.
The idea that your bike gets reclassified after exceeding 20mph is ridiculous and is one of the biggest concerns I have when getting involved in motorized bicycles. I've read horror stories from users that have had their bikes impounded, and never to be returned due to lack of evidence of ownership, not to mention thousands of dollars in fines.
As for the other revisions you have proposed, I agree with just about everyone else in saying that the engine limit should be raised to 50cc as opposed to 66cc. An argument can be made in favor of the bill in that a vast majority of motor assisted bicycle kits on the market are 49cc and 50cc. By limiting the engines to 48cc and below, a large majority of the affordable engines are unavailable to persons interested in using a motor assisted bicycle as a means of transportation. By raising the cc limit from 48 to 50, it can also easily be argued that the increase is, well quite literally negligible. I also think that by raising the cc limit a small amount, you can avoid proposals for HP limits.
I also agree with the majority of people here who think that 30mph is too high of a limit. 25mph is the default residential limit in most places here in Arizona, and I think it's important to note that mopeds are limited at 25mph. I think the idea that you are going to get the limit raised to 30 when licensed/registered mopeds are limited to 25mph is a pipe dream. The same goes for the proposed 66cc limit. Mopeds, which need to be registered with all the bells and whistles are limited to 49cc. I'm thinking the best way to go about this is to change the definition of Motor Assisted Bicycle to include pedals and a motor of no more than 50cc. This would help distinguish the motorbikes from the mopeds. Right now the defining wording which I think should also stay in place is "that may also be self-propelled." So what would define a motorized bicycle from a moped is that they both are 50cc or less but the motorized bicycle has pedals and can be self propelled.
You mentioned that the bill was dead, so no changes this year. I assume that means you are going to be reintroducing the proposed bill in 2014. Have you given any thought to any of the changes people have been suggesting, such as proposing a 50cc limit and a 25mph limit?
Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I'd really love to see this go somewhere, I just really doubt it's going to happen at 66cc and 30mph. Thanks again for taking the initiative.