Vintage looking board track racer project

[fasteddy]

Sounds a lot like Canada except our VAT is 12%. I just looked up some bike builders in British Columbia. These guys are top quality builders. One guy gets $60 an hour plus materials and another guy gets $1,450 for a diamond frame road bike using Columbus or True Temper steel.

Ask them to do an looped Indian frame? What would that cost.

To me $400 even for a regular steel frame seems pretty reasonable.

Steve.

 

[Indianfan]

It does not make a big difference, if it's regular or loop frame. The looped one a bit more, attributed to bending work.
The equipment or I would say the lack of equipment makes the difference. If someone has the jig, sets the dimensions and besides not to hungry, could do it in a day or two, for a reasonable price. If he is a bit greedy that's another story.
If someone takes on the job without jig, could struggle a fair bit. Even if he does the first, for sure don't wanna do the second one, or at least will double the price. That's what happening to me right now.
Rounding up the right guy at the right price, now that's a real challenge here. Not to mention deadlines. The first frame took the builder 8 months. In May found another one. He was sitting on the drawings til I lost patience 2 weeks ago. Has done nothing, said nothing, just excuses.
One way or the other I'll get it done!

Indianfan

 

[Ludwig II]

What problems are encountered in driving a car or van over the border to Austria or one of the other countries bordering you with a few loose tubes in the back, and returning with the tubes bent to the shape you want, or even bent and assembled?

Do "machine parts" attract different taxes to motor vehicle parts, are there any clauses for "mechanical art"? Failing that, how much to acquire tube bending equipment and set up a tube forming business, seeing as nobody there is prepared to do the job themselves?

 

[Indianfan]

Within the EU, there are no borders, hence no taxes. Raw material a bit cheaper in Hungary, but labor costs much much higher in Western Europe. A frame built here in the 400-500 EUR range, could cost 1200 EUR and upwards in Austria or Germany because of labor costs.
Not to mention gas prices. I guess you know it better than anyone. Right now 1.80 USD a litre, or about 7 USD/gallon. That's not too economical driving around with a few tubes.

If it comes from outside the EU, let's say I paid a buck for something, it would end up between 2.50-3 total. I know this for a fact, since I regularly order stuff from US Plastic and other places.

Setting up a shop for bending? Only "unofficially". Even then would be around 20-30.000 USD. Officially 50.

Now I see the board tracker community is growing here, we'll find a way to do it!

Indianfan

 

[Ludwig II]

OK. What welding facilities do you have? Also, have you looked at forming tanks and tubes with high pressure water?

Tubes take careful bending to avoid deformation. Can you use solid bar which can just be heated and forced round a former for any of the frame sections?

Finally, what can you tell us about this bloke, is he any good for contacts? http://www.bikermetric.com/2010/10/motorized-bicycle-by-art-deco.html

 

[truckd]

Thats a cool looking bike Ludwig, I have a greater appericiation now for what is produced over there, learning of all the difficulties you have to go through to aquire parts and or build what you can't get, there is a bicycle maker in Poland I beleive the brand name is Hawk(don't have a map in front of me) is it any closer to you, they build a fanstaic bike with a vintage apeal to it that might be worth look'n in to ?

 

[Ludwig II]

I live on the edge of a city where I can go just a few miles and get any job done that I want; if I had full drawings and an even fuller wallet, I could get a complete bike made from scratch. Indianfan is faced with a situation like the early manufacturers, where he has to make not just the bike, but also at least some of the fabrication equipment.

He will end up like the rest of us though, eyes scouring the land for discarded machines, pieces of metal, he will dive into skips (dumpsters to you), he will haunt the scrap bins behind factories. There was a childrens' story book character here, a time travelled caveman called Stig, who made everything he lived with out of scrap and crap. In some quarters, the term Stigging is still used for the kind of material hunting we do.

 

[Ludwig II]

http://www.readingmatters.co.uk/book.php?id=89

 

[Indianfan]

You have to live in this part of Europe to understand what's happening. Stuff not so readily available like in the US, but at least we can order. Price, another matter.
People's attitude towards work, well.. don't wanna be overly negative, but sucks. Economy is suffering big time. Despite the hordes of unemployed folks, everybody is telling me why something is not possible. Another words the majority not willing to work. Just give them the dough and either they disappear or maybe you get something, sometimes in the distant future. Many say that's the aftermath of 44 years of Russian occupation. I doubt, they are gone for 23 years now..
Anyway we have pretty good flea markets, vintage motorcycle markets and so on. Don't have to dive into dumpsters.

Never heard of the guy, but I managed to find his e-mail address. I'll send him a mail, see if he 's serious about his work.

Indianfan

 

[Ludwig II]

I live in a depressed area of the city, and I can see that a culture of despair and inertia is generated when people feel there is no point trying, and even if circumstances change, it's still going to take a long time to instill any belief in success after attempting something.

 

[davidberg]

OFF:

The main problem in Hungary is this: these bikes are unique -- hence the "Nay, I don't wanna do this and that part, haven't did or tried to do it before, what if something goes wrong, I'll be the one to blame, nooo way I do anything I haven't used to..." mentallity of experts.

It's not like collecting stamps: this is not an everyday hobby. I guess people regarding us as alchemists were at medieval times -- obscure people doin' sinister things in garages... This summer I was at a bike shop looking for rear hubs. When I told the owner what I'm planning to do out of it he questioned me: "Why on earth do you do this? Buy a scooter that runs better and have a bike for leisure!". I guess, enugh said.

We don't have that bike culture you have in the States. Up to the nineties, we used to buy the bike available at the shop, ride it, if something fails: go to the service shop. After the nineties: buy the bike at the Honda-Yamaha-Suzuki, etc. dealer, ride it, if something fails: call the dealer who manages the servicing. We got used to tinker on the bikes, buy accessories for them, but we don't have that bike modding and custom culture you have out there -- think about it: when you customized Hot Rods in the fifties, we couldn't afford a motorcycle even and feared from a communist dictature.

ON:

Thank you guys for the sources, checked them, but the Nirve, Johnny Loco and Electra bikes are too expensive to chop 'em up to make a frame.

 

[Ludwig II]

I have had a few people ask why I'm going for a motorised bike, and don't understand that I just want something gentle, old fashioned, and fun without being dragged into other peoples' frenzied modern haste and competitiveness.

 

[Ludwig II]

" mentallity of experts."

I gathered a team together to race cheap motorcycles here, and in my last season, we won our class on a bike all the "experts" said wasn't worth trying with, you couldn't do anything with them. Fortunately, none of us were "experts," so we went and did it anyway.

 

[davidberg]

Might not the best place to ask, but I have a question for you guys out there:

- My engine haven't fired up yet for first time, there's no fuel in the engine yet since it's freezin' winter here, and I don't wanna break it in in a cold like this.

- I towed the bike to one of my friend and back, about 1/2 mile.

Since then I noticed some clean, yellow-greenish colored, oil-like thin opaque liquid came out from the bottom of the engine case - seems like it came through the paddings. Any idea what can it be? Do I have to worry?

Smells like petroleum, and it seems it's coming from the clutch assy (I have centrifugal clutch).

Gee, looks like I'm not a rocket scientist for first place...

Thanks!

 

[Ludwig II]

What sort of engine is it? It looks like antifreeze mixture from the pic/

 

[davidberg]

Qood question, something made in china... dunno... You can buy it here in hungary this engine without any kind of papers or certification of origin...

Ok. I carefully unscrewed the lid from the clutch assy, and immediately about 0.02 gallon spilled down to the floor from the clutch lid... but it wasn't clear, it was some blackish contaminated liquid... Do I just simply wipe it from the lid's inside cover and put it back, or it is a carefully fixed amount of lubrication needed by the clutch assy? Any hints?

 

[davidberg]

Ok, after some googlin' it turned out that all centrifugal cluthc assys are runs oil soaked, so I guess I have to fill it back... But anyway it's strange, can it be because of the poor casting and poor padding of the engine case to spill the oil out from the clutch?

 

[Ludwig II]

It could be the casing is loose, did you check all bolts for tightness on the engine before fitting it?

 

[davidberg]

It could be the casing is loose, did you check all bolts for tightness on the engine before fitting it?

Yeah, all of them are rock solid... poor paddings, maybe?

 

[Ludwig II]

Given the stories of Chinese quality, the engine might have been assembled with a gasket already split. We need an American to tell what sealants are appropriate and available for the job on your side of the pond.