Why do Motorized Bikes have to comply with repealed laws?

GoldenMotor.com

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
California V C Section 24015 Motorized Bicycle Safety and Equipment Requirements
Motorized Bicycle: Safety and Equipment Requirements

24015. (a) Motorized bicycles shall comply with those federal motor vehicle safety standards established under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (15 U.S.C., Sec. 1381, et seq.) which are applicable to a motor-driven cycle, as that term is defined in such federal standards. Such standards include, but are not limited to, provisions requiring a headlamp, taillamp, stoplamp, side and rear reflex reflectors, and adequate brakes.

"The Secretary of Transportation delegated to the NHTSA Administrator the authority to administer the old National Highway Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966, formerly codified at 15 U.S.C. §§ 1381 et seq. That Act was repealed, reissued, and recodified in 1994 as "Chapter 301 of Title 49 of the United States Code". Under the recodification, the same basic statutory provisions remain as in the predecessor Act. Their administration is still delegated to the NHTSA Administrator, and portions thereof are redelegated within NHTSA. For simplicity, that basic statute (including its predecessor) is referred to herein as “the Safety Act,” and the Secretary’s authority as that of NHTSA."

"Chapter 301 of Title 49" makes no reference to motorized bikes or any other 2 wheeled vehicles for that matter. It only applies to cars and school buses. LOL Why is California and many other states still using a federal law that was repealed in 1994 as a reference for enforcing it's own law? So they can write bogus tickets for "Federally Mandated" brake lights and turn signals on bicycles and cash in on the fines they collect? Something ain't right here. LOL

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/standards/chapt301.html

http://www.htsassociates.com/documents/NHTSA-Safety-Defect-Investigations.pdf
 
Last edited:

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
7,338
1,990
113
Los Angeles, CA.
This was probably written as a 'technicality' just to keep CA laws in compliance with Federal laws.

This is what I was talking about in the last thread when I said "There are Nazi CA cities that also want you to have a brake light, turn signals, a mirror & a horn".

If you live in one of 'those' places?, just install the extra stuff on your bike to keep the police happy with you.

CA has so many crazy laws (many of which directly contradict each other), that it's better not to even worry about them because there aren't enforced by the police on the streets.

We're very lucky here in Los Angeles; all the police want to see is a helmet & good lights if you're riding at night.
 
Last edited:

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
This was probably written as a 'technicality' just to keep CA laws in compliance with Federal laws.

This is what I was talking about in the last thread when I said "There are Nazi CA cities that also want you to have a brake light, turn signals, a mirror & a horn".

If you live in one of 'those' places?, just install the extra stuff on your bike to keep the police happy with you.

CA has so many crazy laws (many of which directly contradict each other), that it's better not to even worry about them because there aren't enforced by the police on the streets.

We're very lucky here in Los Angeles; all the police want to see is a helmet & good lights if you're riding at night.

I was harassed by a LAPD motorcycle cop yesterday and my engine was off and I wasn't even moving. He said he just went to class for motorized bike laws. It looks like LAPD has given MB enforcement to the motorcycle cop division. If it wasn't for his space shuttle duties his said he would have wrote me up for 8 violations. He said he'll be looking for me tomorrow though. I already know his hiding spot. LOL

Local cops are gonna use that Federal NHTSA Act to nail you with all kinds of violations and rack up the cost of the fines.
 

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
7,338
1,990
113
Los Angeles, CA.
What are the things he wanted??

We rode our MBs to a LAPD car show yesterday... There were uniform motorcycle cops EVERYWHERE & not a single one said anything to us! :/

Here's a pic...
 
Last edited:

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
This was probably written as a 'technicality' just to keep CA laws in compliance with Federal laws.

This is what I was talking about in the last thread when I said "There are Nazi CA cities that also want you to have a brake light, turn signals, a mirror & a horn".

If you live in one of 'those' places?, just install the extra stuff on your bike to keep the police happy with you.

CA has so many crazy laws (many of which directly contradict each other), that it's better not to even worry about them because there aren't enforced by the police on the streets.

We're very lucky here in Los Angeles; all the police want to see is a helmet & good lights if you're riding at night.

New updated Federal law regarding "Lights and Reflective Devices" makes no mention of bicycles of motorized bikes.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=r49CFR571.108

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that, THERE IS NO FEDERAL SAFETY LAW THAT REFERS TO ANY MOTORIZED BICYCLE. The closest thing the link above mentions is about "Motorcycles" which in California is a machine with an engine of 150cc or more. dance1dance1
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
What are the things he wanted??

We rode our MBs to a LAPD car show yesterday... There were uniform motorcycle cops EVERYWHERE & not a single one said anything to us! :/
He said, "I'm not gonna write you up but I'll be looking for you tomorrow". I just laughed and said the same back to him. He said he's looking for what the CA DMV considers "The Law" including the "Federal" statutes that no longer exist but are still being used on CA DMV website.

HE TOLD ME THAT I WAS NOW RIDING A MOTORCYCLE. I just laughed.

He was gonna right me up for everything a motorcycle has to have as far as lights, signals, horn, license plate, registration, insurance.
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
I know it's confusing, but if the local cops want you to put lights & reflectors?, then I'd do it. ;)
There is no CA law that specially regulates Lights, Signals and Safety Reflective Devices for "Motorized Bicycles". California and other states simply refer to that Federal NHTSA Law as the law that regulates all vehicles including MB's. That law is dead since 1994 and the new re-codified version of it makes no mention of anything smaller than a "Motorcycle". Unless your engine is 150cc or more, then your MB can not be legally called a motorcycle and is not liable to it's regulations.


If that moto cop ever sees me again, that's exactly what I'm gonna tell him. I'm sure he'll understand after I explain the whole thing to the judge.
I'm gonna tell the judge if I'm gonna be held accountable to Federal law then please make it a law that has not already been REPEALED and makes SPECIFIC reference to MOTORIZED BICYCLES (of 150cc or less). LMAO
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
I know it's confusing, but if the local cops want you to put lights & reflectors?, then I'd do it. ;)
I have both bike lights and reflectors. I'm talking about a working Brake Light, Turn Signals, Mirrors, High/Low beam Headlight, motorcycle plate, registration, and lastly insurance. JUST LIKE A FULL BLOWN MOTORCYCLE HAS. LOL
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
109
63
SoCal Baby!!!
www.facebook.com
I have both bike lights and reflectors. I'm talking about a working Brake Light, Turn Signals, Mirrors, High/Low beam Headlight, motorcycle plate, registration, and lastly insurance. JUST LIKE A FULL BLOWN MOTORCYCLE HAS. LOL
You don't need a motorcycle plate, but you do need a motorized bicycle/ moped plate and ID card and you can be ticketed for it.
It's a $198 ticket in OC.
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
You don't need a motorcycle plate, but you do need a motorized bicycle/ moped plate and ID card and you can be ticketed for it.
It's a $198 ticket in OC.

The moto cop said I was riding a FULL BLOWN MOTORCYCLE and subject to all it's rules and regulations. I just laughed uncontrollably and asked him if I was being detained. He said no so, I said bye bye bye.
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
109
63
SoCal Baby!!!
www.facebook.com
The moto cop said I was riding a FULL BLOWN MOTORCYCLE and subject to all it's rules and regulations. I just laughed uncontrollably and asked him if I was being detained. He said no so, I said bye bye bye.
Ok, so the cop was wrong but you didn't have motorized bicycle plates so its the same amount of fines and your bike could be impounded if the cop wanted to mess with you.
You are still riding an unregistered vehicle even though it isn't a "motorcycle"

Do you have an M1 or M2?
Were you wearing a DOT helmet?

Having no horn, mirror or lights is a ticket too.
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
You don't need a motorcycle plate, but you do need a motorized bicycle/ moped plate and ID card and you can be ticketed for it.
It's a $198 ticket in OC.
The safety equipment, lights, bells, mirrors, horns, turn signals are exactly the same as any other BICYCLE. Any cop that tries to rack up the charges is using an outdated federal law the neither it or it's replacement law makes any mention of a "Motorized Bicycle". LOL

For states to use it as a cure all for the scourge of motorized bicycles, scooters, skateboards and anything else with small wheels is laughable, but until somebody actually challenges it in court, then maybe it's not.
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
Ok, so the cop was wrong but you didn't have motorized bicycle plates so its the same amount of fines and your bike could be impounded if the cop wanted to mess with you.
You are still riding an unregistered vehicle even though it isn't a "motorcycle"

Do you have an M1 or M2?
Were you wearing a DOT helmet?

Having no horn, mirror or lights is a ticket too.
I had EVERYTHING and I didn't get any ticket or was I detained.

He said I need the EXACT same equipment that a full blown motorcycle has......including front and rear turn signals, working brake light, moto plate with registration sticker, insurance, M1 license. I just laughed like a little girl. I couldn't help it.
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
109
63
SoCal Baby!!!
www.facebook.com
I had EVERYTHING and I didn't get any ticket or was I detained.

He said I need the EXACT same equipment that a full blown motorcycle has......including front and rear turn signals, working brake light, moto plate with registration sticker, insurance, M1 license. I just laughed like a little girl. I couldn't help it.
I ain't psychic so I don't know if you had a motorized bicycle plate, M2, DOT helmet, etc, :)
Did you show him your motorized bicycle ID card and say that you already had a plate?
I guess you did too good a job of making your bike look like a motorcycle! :D

OK, so the cop was wrong, it wouldn't be the first time and most cops don't know much about motorized bicycles.

I guess you gotta carry the MB CVC codes with you.
 
Last edited:

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
Ok, so the cop was wrong but you didn't have motorized bicycle plates so its the same amount of fines and your bike could be impounded if the cop wanted to mess with you.
You are still riding an unregistered vehicle even though it isn't a "motorcycle"

Do you have an M1 or M2?
Were you wearing a DOT helmet?

Having no horn, mirror or lights is a ticket too.
True but what is on most states DMV sites say is that "Motorized bicycles shall comply with those federal motor vehicle safety standards established under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (15 U.S.C., Sec. 1381, et seq.)"

15 U.S.C., Sec. 1381, et seq. of 1966 makes no reference to any 2 wheeled vehicle and it's re-codified 1994 law makes no reference to any 2 wheeled vehicle other than a "motorcycle". The legal term "motorcycle" varies from state to state and in CA it's an engine >150cc. He is just enforcing what he was taught in class so I don't blame him even if he was an azz.

If I had a 500cc engine on my bike and it was not running at the time for whatever reason and I was simply pedaling my bike then what does me or my bike require to be legal? LOL
 

fatdaddy

New Member
May 4, 2011
1,516
4
0
San Jose, Ca.
I don't see the big freaking problem here. Everything they "claim" required by law, repealed or not, is a good idea, dont'cha think. Good lighting, Well, of course. A brake light? Think about it. Yer doing at least 30mph. Why wouldn't you want to warn people behind you yer coming to a stop. I don't want some cager crawling up my a**. And what does it take to stick a reflector on yer spokes? Most bikes already have them anyway.
I've just never seen where turn signals are required, although I do have them on my bikes cause they look cool. I also have it registered, again, cause it looks cool and it's only $19 for life.
Look guy's, yer basicly riding a "Moped" on the street. Show me a moped you would or could run without reg., lights and all the other safety carp that comes on a factory built moped. Just cause you built it yourself and think reflectors aren't cool and registration is for sissies ain't gonna get you out of that ticket. Do ya really think the state is gonna let a motorized ANYTHING on the street without regulating the stuffin out of it?
I wanna be a outlaw too, It's just that I can afford to make a bike compliant better than I can afford tickets, court costs, the time, and all the hassles that getting a ticket involves.
I STILL don't have a M-2.(OMG, I AM an outlaw.) Guess I'm looking for that ticket after all.
fatdaddy.usflg
 
Last edited:

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
109
63
SoCal Baby!!!
www.facebook.com
If I had a 500cc engine on my bike and it was not running at the time for whatever reason and I was simply pedaling my bike then what does me or my bike require to be legal? LOL
I think that you are wrong on that, just like if you had a car on the street that was parked and had some kind of violation you will still be ticketed.
You don't have to be driving the car.
Cops can even go into public parking areas and ticket cars.

The only place you would be safe is on private property.
However most cops aren't going to push it unless they have it in
for you.
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
I ain't psychic so I don't know if you had a motorized bicycle plate, M2, DOT helmet, etc, :)
Did you show him your motorized bicycle ID card and say that you already had a plate?
I guess you did too good a job of making your bike look like a motorcycle! :D

OK, so the cop was wrong, it wouldn't be the first time and most cops don't know much about motorized bicycles.

I guess you gotta carry the MB CVC codes with you.
I didn't get pulled over. I was parked with the engine off on the side of the street, watching the Space Shuttle roll down Crenshaw, when he pulled up and gave me the business. So I gave it back to him for about 15 minutes.

You're right. That's exactly why he gave me grief BECAUSE it looked too much like a motorcycle and he didn't seem to like that for some reason. But that doesnt mean it's subject to the same laws a motorcycle is subject to.

I'm telling you that the CA VC and other states are using a 1966 repealed Federal NHTSA law (that was rewritten in 1994) that is on their DMV websites to say that MB's have to meet Federal Safety Equipment standards that ONLY apply to "motorcycles".

No Federal Vehicle Safety standards exist for MB's but the DMV seems to think otherwise. They are wrong and the cops are being trained based on that bogus law. ****e rolls downhill until it hits the MB'er right in his head.
 

MotorBicycleRacing

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
5,844
109
63
SoCal Baby!!!
www.facebook.com
I don't see the big freaking problem here. Everything they "claim" required by law, repealed or not, is a good idea, dont'cha think. Good lighting, Well, of course. A brake light? Think about it. Yer doing at least 30mph. Why wouldn't you want to warn people behind you yer coming to a stop. I don't want some cager crawling up my a**. And what does it take to stick a reflector on yer spokes? Most bikes already have them anyway.
I've just never seen where turn signals are required, although I do have them on my bikes cause they look cool. I also have it registered, again, cause it looks cool and it's only $19 for life.
Look guy's, yer basicly riding a "Moped" on the street. Show me a moped you would or could run without reg., lights and all the other safety carp that comes on a factory built moped. Just cause you built it yourself and think reflectors aren't cool and registration is for sissies ain't gonna get you out of that ticket. Do ya really think the state is gonna let a motorized ANYTHING on the street without regulating the stuffin out of it?
I wanna be a outlaw too, It's just that I can afford to make a bike compliant better than I can afford tickets, court costs, the time, and all the hassles that getting a ticket involves.
I STILL don't have a M-2.(OMG, I AM an outlaw.) Guess I'm looking for that ticket after all.
fatdaddy.usflg
You no read the story. :)
He had ALL the legal stuff to be a motorized bicycle but the cop
thought he should comply with Motorcycle laws.