well just got pulled over.

[dracothered]

Another thing to consider is if you win in traffic court, you pay nothing.

Here in Michigan if it is a moving violation type of ticket and you win many times they change it to an Impeding traffic ticket which has no points but the same fine. I should know as when I fought the ticket for rear ending another car which is "Failure to stop and or keep your vehicle under control" or something like that. My ticket was dismissed and I was given the other one with the same fine, but no court cost though.

 

[d_gizzle]

Isn't that double jeopardy? You can't be charged twice for the same crime,right?

 

[biknut]

Of interest: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zdo3luny5tnls045hmiqyovw))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-chap257.pdf

Particularly the definition of "motorcycle" because if it's not a "Moped" then that's what it is.

This is my understanding of Michigan law anyway not that I'm a lawyer.

Thanks for the link. Looking at the Michigan state definations I think a china girl would be outside the law. Especially since there's apperantly no specific mention of motor bicycles in the statutes.

If it came to a court challange for an unregistered moped, which is the most likely ticket if you're not breaking any other laws, this is how I would fight it.

Since a moped is defined as 50cc of less, a 80 china girl clearly isn't a moped.

A motorcycle is defined as a motor vehicle, but since motor vehicles are defined as self propelled, then china girl MB isn't a motor vehicle, so it can't be a motorcycle either.

In other words, a china girl style MB is in a gray area of the law. This is the same situation we have in Texas, and a lot of other states.

In Texas the prosecutors have decided it's in their best interest not to allow and any ticket for unregistered moped on a motor bicycle to get to trial, because if they lose it sets precedent for the whole state.



257.33 “Motor vehicle” defined.
Sec. 33. “Motor vehicle” means every vehicle that is self-propelled,

257.32b “Moped” defined.
Sec. 32b. “Moped” means a 2- or 3-wheeled vehicle which is equipped with a motor that does not exceed 50 cubic centimeters piston displacement,
produces 2.0 brake horsepower or less, and cannot propel the
vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on a level surface. The power drive system shall not require the operator to shift gears.

257.31 “Motorcycle” defined.
Sec. 31. “Motorcycle” means every motor vehicle having a saddle or seat for the use of the rider and
designed to travel on not more than 3 wheels in contact with the ground but excluding a tractor.

257.32 Repealed. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977.
Compiler's note: The repealed section defined “motor driven cycle”.

 

[desolation]

they dropped the unregistered and no brake lights tail lights

right now the only thing im looking at is driving with out a license and speeding

 

[biknut]

they dropped the unregistered and no brake lights tail lights

right now the only thing im looking at is driving with out a license and speeding

As long as you aren't required to have a drivers license for a bicycle, I think you can beat that ticket. More than likely all you'd need to do is tell the court you plan to plead not guilty on the no license ticket, and they'll throw that one out.

The speeding ticket is a different story. Keep in mind though, in most cases when you tell the judge of your intention to challange a ticket, the judge will offer you a deal if you'll change your plea. Then you can decide if you want to take the deal or not.

 

[desolation]

ill pay the speeding ticket cause its 30 in a 25 not that big of a deal but everything else i feel is bs

 

[dracothered]

257.4 “Bicycle” defined.
Sec. 4. “Bicycle” means a device propelled by human power upon which a person may ride, having either
2 or 3 wheels in a tandem or tricycle arrangement, all of which are over 14 inches in diameter.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1971, Act 151, Imd. Eff. Nov. 22, 1971;¾Am. 1975, Act 209, Imd. Eff. Aug. 25,
1975;¾Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977.

257.31 “Motorcycle” defined.
Sec. 31. “Motorcycle” means every motor vehicle having a saddle or seat for the use of the rider and
designed to travel on not more than 3 wheels in contact with the ground but excluding a tractor.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949.

257.32b “Moped” defined.
Sec. 32b. “Moped” means a 2- or 3-wheeled vehicle which is equipped with a motor that does not exceed
50 cubic centimeters piston displacement, produces 2.0 brake horsepower or less, and cannot propel the
vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on a level surface. The power drive system shall not require
the operator to shift gears.
History: Add. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977;¾Am. 1983, Act 91, Imd. Eff. June 16, 1983.

If we look at the above for Michigan definitions for what a Bicycle, Motorcycle and Moped is they all have one thing in common that is 2 to 3 wheels. From there it gets gray between what Motorized Bicycle (MB) is and a Moped is. A MB can be pedaled and can be self propelled, but normally needs to be pedaled some before the engine can take over. Then notice under the motorcycle it says, “Motorcycle” means every motor vehicle having a saddle or seat. This leaves it all muddy and gray with no real defined Motorized Bicycle definition. So we get some areas here that most likely won't bother you unless you are breaking the law or some other thing like that. Then we get those that just want to be a pain.

 

[Harold_B]

Glad things are working out for you in court.

I don't see myself as a "glass half full" or "glass half empty" person. Definitely a "glass is twice as big as it needs to be" type. I'm saying that because it's how I interpret the MI code. If a motorized bike is not a motorcycle and it's not a Moped then it doesn't belong on a public road. To call what most us build "motor-assisted bicycles" would be inaccurate and the opposite of what is being done. Pedals assist the motor not the other way around. The most likely outcome of taking advantage of a perceived loophole will be that someone in the state will get a burr in their panties and make them illegal. Again, my two cents. I suspect many if not most will disagree and that's OK.

 

[biknut]

If we look at the above for Michigan definitions for what a Bicycle, Motorcycle and Moped is they all have one thing in common that is 2 to 3 wheels. From there it gets gray between what Motorized Bicycle (MB) is and a Moped is. A MB can be pedaled and can be self propelled, but normally needs to be pedaled some before the engine can take over. Then notice under the motorcycle it says, “Motorcycle” means every motor vehicle having a saddle or seat. This leaves it all muddy and gray with no real defined Motorized Bicycle definition. So we get some areas here that most likely won't bother you unless you are breaking the law or some other thing like that. Then we get those that just want to be a pain.

I agree with your interpretation. It is a muddy gray area, but the problem is, it's not just a gray area for the guy with the ticket. It's also a gray area for the prosecutor too. A cop is free to write a ticket if he wants. If someone just pays the ticket (they hope), they'll take your money. Paying a ticket you're not guilty of doesn't set any precedent. It's when a trouble maker decides to challenge the ticket that the shtf lol.

 

[desolation]

if i had been doing something worng i would pay my ticket and move on but i feel that i wasnt doing anything wrong and the whole thing is blown way out of proportions from the start im going to pay the speeding ticket but the driving with out a license i feel is a bogus ticket

 

[desolation]

alright so i jsut got out of court, they dropped 3 of the 4 tickets now im just facing driving a moped with out a license. ive got a jury trial on the 26th of oct well see what happens from there

 

[neomas372]

They always offer a deal....always

 

[Crazygames43]

if im breaking the law then what about the 8 other people in town that ride around just like i was and have no problems i was minding my own business going to my nieces house to work on her computer and got pulled over and hassled. the laws in Michigan aren't clear on motor assisted bikes and there not uniformly enforced. some get away with no problems riding around and dont get bothered and some like me get hassled just because they can.

from what i knew i was leagal to ride my bike with no problems.

 

[Crazygames43]

You do not have a CVT system!!

 

[Crazygames43]

You do not have a CVT system!!

And I'll let you know how to do it 100% legally!!!

 

[Dan]

Best of luck, Desolation! Really hope it swings your way.



Off topic and please forgive me. Crazy Games, do you use a CVT? I'm working on some thing similar and am curious.

Happy Saturday!