Rules For Racing...

C

culvercityclassic

Well-Known Member
I think we need some ideas for rules with the racing classes. This will make it fair and safe.

I will start off with two that have been on my mind for some time:

1. Bike must have working pedals and be able to pedal at least a 100 feet. This applies to all classes.

2. Bike must have front and rear working brakes, this applies to all classes.
 
So far I agree and comply.....that's a good start. I see what I can think of.

EDIT: that didn't take long. I think electric bicycles should race against electric bicycles to keep things fair. If they want to race in a race against gas bikes, let it be in a completely open class race where anything goes. For example AGK's 20hp bike and Luke's 40-50hp bike and mopeds with pedals on them. Open class meaning "Open Class". This would cut down some confusion and cheating in many ways.

Let the sparks fly......

dnut
 
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culvercityclassic said:
I think we need some ideas for rules with the racing classes. This will make it fair and safe.

I will start off with two that have been on my mind for some time:

1. Bike must have working pedals and be able to pedal at least a 100 feet. This applies to all classes.
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Functioning pedals have always been the # 1 rule.

I can not recall ever having a Motorized Bicycle show at any
of the races since June 2011 that broke that rule.

culvercityclassic said:
2. Bike must have front and rear working brakes, this applies to all classes.
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That has been pretty much the rule with a few exceptions of some of the slowest
bikes at the races and even those bikes have been adding front brakes.

Did you know that # 60 Oldbiker has been racing his beautiful Felt 66 cc 2 stroke
on only a coaster brake? He doesn't go that fast and I doubt if he will be a problem
on the track but he is strongly encouraged to install a front brake.

Maybe Joker Machine will install one of his double disc brakes for him. :D
 
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we need some real safety gear requirements, too. i keep trying to push them, but people think a 5$ pair of hello kitty kneepads from target will save your skin if you go down at 40mph. ( jeff...;) )

seperating electrics won't work for the same reason seperating gas bikes won't.

we'd have to seperate briggs, hf's, predators, morini's, etc, then sub classes for different mods, etc.

unless we get 100's of people showing up like at an scca race or nhra, we've gotta fit people into a few classes.

if you guys wanna build nascar bikes exactly the same, i'll make a class for you. maybe you can get harbor freight to sponsor you...:)

when the china two stroke was the only game in town, people complained when the morini's came around. then the hf's started beating them. now there's so many different options, it's really difficult to please everybody.

my races will always be comparable bikes against each other, whether they're gas, electric, steam, solar, or whatever some guy can dream up in his garage.

bikes like luke's and agk will always run in the unlimited class, and always have.

i dunno why some people are down on electrics. those guys put a lot of effort in their bikes, just like us, and want to race them, just like us...
 
bairdco said:
i dunno why some people are down on electrics. those guys put a lot of effort in their bikes, just like us, and want to race them, just like us...
Click to expand...

From who have voiced there opinion to me its more there attitude "we wont race unless we race against ICE bikes" that seems to rub people the wrong way.

I've heard it myself and the only thing I think of is they just want to prove a point. Which I have yet to understand?
 
I was the writer of our race series rules for 18 years. They're a minefield, so I'll make some observations from my experience and leave it with you.

Engine size classes: reboring a barrel just once can make an engine technically oversize. We solved the problem by giving all classes an actual maximum size of around 2mm bigger, and how you achieved, say, 55cc was up to you. Some overbored, some ran standard until it needed doing. At least one team found a crankshaft that brought them up half a cc short on maximum size but on standard bore.

We currently use carburettor restrictions on some classes, these have to be easily policed or they're worthless. A point to bear in mind is that if a 4 stroke shares common parts with a larger engine, like the cylinder head, restricting the inlet (esp. on a single speeder) may well improve inlet gas speed and help the engine actually work better.

At some point, as speeds rise, you may well find yourselves requiring drum or disc brakes as bicycle brakes become overloaded. As well as this, you could also consider requiring rigid forks to be braced as they were in the early days of racing, for the same reason; the fatigue risk when you annoy metal too much for too long.

Tyres, again, as speeds rise the need for tyres of the correct construction and speed rating will come to the fore. Modern bicycle tyres are very good, but they are still only bicycle tyres, designed for human power and human powered speeds. Questions will arise over whether a highway legality rule is enforced, or you permit purpose made racing rubber. We favour highway legal tyres, they have good service life, and are readily available to all racers at affordable prices, not just to those within the culture/social group/trade arena.

Will you separate engines by size and whether they are 2 or 4 stroke? If you start getting enough entries, you may well be forced to do this, so consideration needs to be given to comparative performances and whether one sort can run equitably with another sort or size.

Tuning: you'll never, ever, stop it, even if it's just matching up boxfuls of standard parts to get the best fit, so don't even think about banning it.

Fuels, petroleum spirit is best for engines designed to run on it. A thing which should be borne in mind is that high octane fuels are only needed by engines that have higher compression than is safe to use with low octane. I once read a learned article about this, and it turns out small engines are less prone to detonation than big engines, and high revving engines are also less prone to it. Small high revving engines actually want something that burns faster, not slower, than high octane.

Kill switches must be fitted to the handlebars and be fully operational and clearly mark on and off. Ever seen somebody try to clear a bike away with the throttle stuck open? Sometimes it's funny, sometimes there's an accident risk.

Fuel tanks must be of robust construction, free from leaks and be fitted with a secure, spill proof, filler cap.

Engine and gearbox drain plug should be drilled and lockwired to prevent leakage of oil and the associated tarmac inspections following the leak.

That'll do for now.
 
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And another thing!

Clothes, helmets to be in good condition, recent, and appropriate for racing purposes. This means they need to be clearly marked with the appropriate safety standard on the shell and fit securely (so they can't come off when you crash; not if, when).

Gloves, leather, good condition. One or two piece leathers, and two piece should already be zipped together at the start of a race. Kevlar has been used, but we don't see much of it. Boots, appropriate for the job. Not necessarily motorcycle boots, but the ankles must be covered with good protection, and the fastening must be secure.
 
I am pushing for brakes and pedals. When you let an aggressive moped with no pedals race against us in the unlimited what keeps me from bringing a CR80 to race in that class. I build a race bike around the pedals and that works for me...should be for the rest too

The electrics are fine, just no way of telling what horsepower they make. You know what a HF puts out am I right. You will not see a 30 HP HF that’s for sure. Make a class unlimited electrics.
 
culvercityclassic said:
I am pushing for brakes and pedals. When you let an aggressive moped with no pedals race against us in the unlimited .
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You are probably talking about the last Adams race?
---------------------------------------------
My view on it from the April June Grange race.

Tomahawk on his no ped 13? HP was racing with you not against you.
Just giving him a place to race and have some fun.
Tomahawk was first but didn't get awarded the very cool trophy made
by Arrow Motorized Cycles because his bike had pedals and was over the
11.99 hp limit.
The trophy was awarded to the first gas bike which was scotto which
pissed the eBikes off but that is life. :D

Also Tomahawk respects and understands our aims and bought a lower hp
moped with pedals to the next SoCal Motor Bicycle Race in June.
We are talking about doing a stock Tomas Moped class that will be lucky
to hit 35 mph so can run in the slow class.
 
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Ludwig II said:
I was the writer of our race series rules for 18 years. They're a minefield, so I'll make some observations from my experience and leave it with you.

That'll do for now.
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Thanks for the input but I would like to limit this discussion to people
that have either come to one of the races in Southern California or
Tucson.
If you haven't been to one you have no idea about where the current
state of racing motorized bicycles is at.

I have read and studied local small motorcycle racing organizations and
we don't really need that kind of input. We don't want to go into the
minefield because we are going to keep it simple and FUN! :)
thanks.
 
culvercityclassic said:
When you let an aggressive moped with no pedals race against us in the unlimited what keeps me from bringing a CR80 to race in that class. I build a race bike around the pedals and that works for me...should be for the rest too
.
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One of the very few rules from the SoCal Motor Bicycle Races is
that multi speed shiftable motorcycle engines like a CR 80 would
be put into the "Unlimited" class and would not be racing against
the 200 cc HF and 11 hp water cooled Morini's in the 11 hp class.

40 hp electric bikes are in the same category. They don't get trophies
and get to boast how the eBikes kicked gass. They can go race
SuperMotos at some other event. I support the core of the racers
which are gas powered motorized bicycle racers.
 
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Forgive me for saying this, but the basics of safety are the same everywhere, and as for keeping it fun, you will very quickly find out just how deeply, seriously, and often unpleasantly, competitive people can become.

Our racing started out as 30mph restricted mopeds ridden by hungover oafs. Now, the fastest ones will go to Europe and hit 110mph on roadster based 50s. And the Dutch versions are quicker than ours.

I mean this with absolute kindness, don't listen to the loudest voices when they clamour for changes that involve others being forced out through rising costs. Our racing was meant to be fun to start with, and now we have 2 stroke teams spending £1,500 on replacing blown engines over a weekend. I merely forewarn you about this, and advise that you measure twice and cut once with any new rule or change to an existing one.
 
hey ludwig, i appreciate your comments, and you're right about a lot of it.

i dunno why someone else thinks this thread (that he didn't start) should be about southern cal races only, as it's only a matter of time before it spreads all over the country. (it didn't start here, anyway. arizona did it years before us, and there were a few small parking lot races before that in other town.)

i also agree with what your saying about the competitive quality of it.

a lot of us are building faster and faster, race specific bikes, and paying the price through breakdowns.

i've built at least 4 different race bikes, and have utterly destroyed a coupla thousand bucks in cheap chinese motors either racing or testing.

your input is as welcome as anyone else's on this open forum. some stuff might not be as relevant to bikes as it is to mopeds, but it can't hurt to read about your experience...
 
whoops. double post. internet on my phone sucks at my hotel in beautiful el centro, california...:)
 
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Ludwig II said:
Forgive me for saying this, but the basics of safety are the same everywhere, and as for keeping it fun, you will very quickly find out just how deeply, seriously, and often unpleasantly, competitive people can become.

Our racing started out as 30mph restricted mopeds ridden by hungover oafs. Now, the fastest ones will go to Europe and hit 110mph on roadster based 50s. And the Dutch versions are quicker than ours.

I mean this with absolute kindness, don't listen to the loudest voices when they clamour for changes that involve others being forced out through rising costs. Our racing was meant to be fun to start with, and now we have 2 stroke teams spending £1,500 on replacing blown engines over a weekend. I merely forewarn you about this, and advise that you measure twice and cut once with any new rule or change to an existing one.
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Cool, sounds like you get it. :)
I ain't listening to them. :D Gonna keep it FUN!
We have about 4 rules right now for the bikes.

Safety is another whole issue but even there the high cost of safety
equipment is a factor too.
 
I buy cheap helmets and cut them up once they've had a good hard impact with the floor. Cheap means that you don't have a financial lever making you think about using a one shot safety device twice.
 
buba here

and also ludwig we have seen the toll taken by those who have gotten so very serious in such a short time by way of the actual participants that show up at southern california events not the hundreds it could be but a mere handful
 
let's use the motos what they are inteded for. If i place in the top 3 in both motos don't make me start in the 2nd or 3rd row just because I want to do a warm up lap before the main.

The rider with the best moto results should get the first pick on the starting line and so on..
 
One thing I would suggest is the initiation of a discussion on a base level class, an entry level machine, with workable and enforceable limits on performance. That way the new racers and the cheapskates (why are you looking at me?) would have something to use without breaking the bank.
 
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