Cheap and Easy Drive Roller

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happycheapskate

happycheapskate

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I'm using a Dax Friction Drive and the steel roller that came with the kit (1.25). I haven't made any home-made rollers yet because I don't have a drill press. I tried making cut-outs from a plastic board, but the results weren't good.

I think if you have a drill press you can make the accurate center hole and cut-out shape. For locking it to a Dax driveshaft, you can drill a couple holes in the sides, just wide enough to hammer a nut in there sideways, then before the nut, drill through the roller so the set screw can go through to the driveshaft. You could even counter drill the set screw holes and use allen cap screws.
 
cannonball2

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Yeah everything I have roller wise is made on a drill press. I have the luxury of a small lathe and true the rollers after they are laminated. Truing isnt totally necessary, Ive run a bunch that werent. They are usually close enough as cut. Just makes something good better. Oak doesnt make a good small roller atleast not for my one small cc FD. Have you thought about polyuerthane? Dont know how it might be sold. If it could be had in sheets or rods it might work. Its some tough stuff! Strangely the steel rollers seem to wear more than I would have thought. I only have one FD with one and the knurls wore down quickly, could have been the steel quality. In theory a flat smooth roller has the best bite due to the contact area. The knurled rollers depend on the points. I never did hear how good or bad the tire wear was on WayneZs big grinding wheel. That was an interesting idea.
 
wayne z

wayne z

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cannonball2 said:
Yeah everything I have roller wise is made on a drill press. I have the luxury of a small lathe and true the rollers after they are laminated. Truing isnt totally necessary, Ive run a bunch that werent. They are usually close enough as cut. Just makes something good better. Oak doesnt make a good small roller atleast not for my one small cc FD. Have you thought about polyuerthane? Dont know how it might be sold. If it could be had in sheets or rods it might work. Its some tough stuff! Strangely the steel rollers seem to wear more than I would have thought. I only have one FD with one and the knurls wore down quickly, could have been the steel quality. In theory a flat smooth roller has the best bite due to the contact area. The knurled rollers depend on the points. I never did hear how good or bad the tire wear was on WayneZs big grinding wheel. That was an interesting idea.
Click to expand...
The 3.5" grinding wheel had excellent traction when wet, even in mud, never slipped at all. But it wore out the tire in about 60 miles.
 
Ibedayank

Ibedayank

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Cannonball

Have you thought of using exterior plywood and laminating it with waterproof glue or epoxy? Might give you the strength need to make some smaller rollers.
 
MEASURE TWICE

MEASURE TWICE

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I was wondering if there was the same stuff for a roller as what you ride on. Make a roller out of concrete or asvalt?

There a concrete boats, and they would seem odd due to weight, but the air inside the concrete and the amount of air inside the hull keeps them afloat. Maybe they are even reinforced with steel.

Take a steel spoked castor wheel and cover with concrete, just first rid of the bearings and afix (weld or press fit) an axle to connect to the engine or clutch.

What you think?

MT
 
Ibedayank

Ibedayank

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MEASURE TWICE said:
I was wondering if there was the same stuff for a roller as what you ride on. Make a roller out of concrete or asvalt?

There a concrete boats, and they would seem odd due to weight, but the air inside the concrete and the amount of air inside the hull keeps them afloat. Maybe they are even reinforced with steel.

Take a steel spoked castor wheel and cover with concrete, just first rid of the bearings and afix (weld or press fit) an axle to connect to the engine or clutch.

What you think?

MT[/QUOTE/
actually is has to do with displacement and the surface tension of the water

a steel needle will float on water look in a compass
cement is slick when smooth when rough will be worse then a grinding wheel ask Wayne how using a grinding wheel worked
Click to expand...
 
MEASURE TWICE

MEASURE TWICE

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I thought that since that is what the tires ride on and don't wear out so fast, just the usual, then this might be good, but I think I forgot the speed at which the small wheel is spinning on the tire as compared with the road pressing on the tire at slower rate.

OK

Surface tension and those cool water bugs and spiders that walk on water, there God!

MT
 
happycheapskate

happycheapskate

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Yeah, I think we have to remember that all fiction (sic) drives slip 100% of the time when moving. The two wheels are going in opposite directions, and the friction between the flexed and unburdened tire tread & casing are what move us. The key seems to be something that slips the least without resorting to grinding off the rubber or shaving off the tread with paddles or cut-out holes.
 
MEASURE TWICE

MEASURE TWICE

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happycheapskate said:
Yeah, I think we have to remember that all fiction (sic) drives slip 100% of the time when moving. The two wheels are going in opposite directions, and the friction between the flexed and unburdened tire tread & casing are what move us. The key seems to be something that slips the least without resorting to grinding off the rubber or shaving off the tread with paddles or cut-out holes.
Click to expand...
I was wondering the amount of slip, like the percent of the rpm it is less on the tire than what it would be otherwise with no slip would be turning.

Put it on one of those things in a smog shop test and put chalk marks and have a strobe light to see what it is.

Anyway I would see about my belt drive and its amount of slip if I can find a way. By hand turning the 44:1 ratio for my parade ratio, I did the reverse. I turned the lifted rear wheel and looked at the three belts moving and the bell on the centrifugal clutch spinning real fast as I was only inching along the rear wheel tire. I could see one belt needed to be tighter. I have to swap in another slightly larger or smaller pulley and add or remove a link in the link belt since the length for this one is so short it is too much to take one link out and roll in onto the bigger of the two pulleys. The tightening adjustment is just something that was useful before that worked, but my modification of the brackets for dual stacked jackshafts has me run out of room on adjustment till I weld a bit of extra length on the platform that hold the brackets for the pillow bearing holders.

MT
 
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happycheapskate

happycheapskate

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I'm not Bill Nye the Science guy, but they all scrub. I'll spare you the pages of argument and 20 diagrams, but just think, the tire is circular in one direction and globular in another dimension; the roller is round and flat across it's profile, but a different way.
The contact patch of the tire is minimal and under stress as the tire deflects.

If you got a grippy roller, though, that's the best. Tires are cheap, for me, so I like this way better than chains, gears, belts, etc.

I have a great idea for the best friction drive ever, but I doubt anyone will produce it. I wish there was a friction drive that incorporated a CVT, and used a thick rubberized mesh belt between two rollers, so that it had about 4-6" of contact around the tire's circumference, sort of like a belt sander on a table leg or something.

Even a fixed speed belt drive friction drive system would work awesome even wet and off-road, surely.
 
MEASURE TWICE

MEASURE TWICE

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A thought of the shape to use rather than flat across roller, scallop it out. Take a cast of the tire surface to the side walls and use that for a mold for the roller part for maximum contact.

Now way out there is this:

If the tire has tread that is made to work not only to have good traction on the round it goes over, but matches a knurled or molded shape that interlocks with the drive roller it would be almost like gear teeth.

There is this stuff I have to see about finding its name and where to buy. The stuff is like a plastic kind of beads that you put in near boiling water for a few minutes and then stir to make a paste. The paste when cool enough to handle you mold in your hands onto stuff and as it cools it hardens. You can drill, tap, saw, and carve shape when hard. Only thing if it gets up to like high temp 140 degree Fahrenheit (60 C) or something like that it will soften again.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8148711_melt-plastic-molds.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycaprolactone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shapelock_bike_light.png

Where to buy is also there:

PCL also has many applications in the hobbyist market. Some brand names used in selling it to this market are Hand Moldable Plastic, Mold-Your-Own Grips, Simple-Plastic, InstaMorph, Shapelock, Missing Link, and Friendly Plastic in the US, Polymorph in the UK, and Plastimake in Australia. It has physical properties of a very tough, nylon-like plastic that melts to a putty-like consistency at only 60°C. PCL's specific heat and conductivity are low enough that it is not hard to handle at this temperature. This makes it ideal for small-scale modeling, part fabrication, repair of plastic objects, and rapid prototyping where heat resistance is not needed. Though molten PCL readily sticks to many other plastics, if the surface is cooled, the stickiness can be minimized while still leaving the mass pliable.

MT
 
happycheapskate

happycheapskate

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That eats the sidewalls and the tread faster. The tread should be going faster than the sidewalls (longer radius from hub center). The flanged wheel will be going faster at the sidewall of the tire. It could work, but might cause heat buildup. I had an old field mower with bicycle tires, that used such rollers. They didn't work so well. I sold the mower. I should have bonded some rubber strips to those crappy rollers and it might have worked. It was a beast! (36" deck, caster front wheels, pulley driven blade shaft, 10hp engine)

"A thought of the shape to use rather than flat across roller, scallop it out. Take a cast of the tire surface to the side walls and use that for a mold for the roller part for maximum contact."

I like your idea of tooth-tread tires for a toothed roller, but I don't know how well it would do unless it was a really solid rubber tire (hard rubber, not the foam tires).

I had an old Murray w/Tecumseh engine that had drive wheels like that, about 10" around.
 
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Ibedayank

Ibedayank

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I have been looking for a bicycle tire that has a flat tread but so far nothing in a 26inch. But that type of tire brings up a new set of problems... handling corners



MT that plastic where i live if left outside in direct sunlight would become a molten puddle Average summer temp is 95+. Would be great for making molds if you have a foundry available
 
MEASURE TWICE

MEASURE TWICE

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I had a thought, the side walls you don't want to have roller on. I know that I was mentioning, but this is not just a generator rub wheel for a small bike light, it has your weight and the motor bike to accelerate to speed. The side wall is thinner.

MT
 
happycheapskate

happycheapskate

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There is a popular and cheap Cheng Shin beach bike tire like that:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=1384 $9


Somewhere I saw some "kustom" waffle-sided flat-profile 26" tires for chopper builds. They were $75 each and reportedly cornered with the expected disadvantages.

Ibedayank said:
I have been looking for a bicycle tire that has a flat tread but so far nothing in a 26inch. But that type of tire brings up a new set of problems... handling corners



MT that plastic where i live if left outside in direct sunlight would become a molten puddle Average summer temp is 95+. Would be great for making molds if you have a foundry available
Click to expand...
 
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