The Real Deal on California Law.

[Ditchrider]

Thanks bairdco for the info , I make my own frames so I was going to put on serial no. 000001 but if I count all my failures it would be more like 000020. I'll see if I can find a helmet to fit my big head and wear it. I got the bike up to 20 one time, boy was I scared. I don't know any one that will loan me a motorcycle to get a license so I'll go for the 1 year permit and try to get a plate for the bike.

 

[ocscully]

Check your local craigslist for a shop that rents a smaller bike for taking the DMV Skills Test. Here in Orange county there are several that offer this service. A friend of mine just last week rented a Yamaha from Myrons Extreme Machines out in Fullerton to take his test. I think he said the Rental was either $60.00 or $65.00. He said the smaller bike made the test really simple and qualifies him for the M1 rather than the M2 License.

ocscully

 

[Ditchrider]

Thanks Ocscully, I'm retired and grams says that I'm in my 2nd childhood. When I was a kid and my brother bought me my first bike that was a day that I'll mever forget. I've had motorcycles but never got a m2 license. Grams says no more motorcycles.

 

[alienboy366]

will it do any good to buy a DOT sticker on ebay and put it on a regular skate helmet? will the police know? motorcycle helmets seem a bit pricey

 

[jburr36]

Helmets?
Nunna their bidness!
There are indeed some who would have us ALL outfitted like the osha cowboy even within our own homes, not to mention when we step onto the sidewalk, or beyond. Then we would be able to accomplish NOTHING!

Just coming from a taxpayer here. I'm really tired of having to pick up the tab because some idiot somewhere else makes a choice that causes him/her to injure themselves and rushed to the ER or whatever. It's more likely than not that those types of people do not have the financial means to cover all the expenses incurred as a result of their own stupidity. I firmly believe that if people want to make choices that put themselves at greater risk of injury to themselves or other people's property then they ought to be forced to accept all financial responsibility for it. If it bankrupts them or they lose their house, cars and tax refunds for 100 years then too bad. Why the **** should everyone else have to pay for it??

We live in a society that has to make rules and regs in an attempt to hopefully reduce the risk of personal injury or property damage because our system is designed to have others pay for it when something bad happens to someone. Head injuries are expensive to treat and some injuries last a lifetime mostly at someone else's expense. I support seatbelt and helmet laws for that reason alone. Statistically forcing others to wear helmets and seat belts saves me money when I pay for insurance and taxes.

I also firmly believe that anyone who chooses to engage in ANY kind of behavior that is proven to endanger their own health and well being ought to automatically waive any rights to public financial assistance to cover them when their health deteriorates as a result of their own decisions. Alcohol abuse, cigarettes, drugs - illegal ones especially, and risky sexual behaviors. I saw a guy who had the taxpayers pay a half million taxpayer dollars for a liver transplant. Within 3 weeks of release from the hospital he was drinking beer. I see lung cancer and emphysema people smoking cigarettes and weed. WTF?? If they want to do that then force them to pay their own bills.

Rules, laws, regulations are designed to set standards for behavior in a civilized society. Enforcement, implementation of laws, and educating members of society doesn't come cheap because people don't want to work for free so yes we are asked to contribute to the costs associated with it. We have to understand that our MABs are unique in that we modify a bicycle to build them and they are not that widely popular yet so it is understandable that many states have these grey areas in the statutes and the DMVs, police, etc. lack a clear understanding of what category to classify them under and adapt the current laws and regs to them for us to ride them legally. We need some patience as we work through the system to fit us into the scheme of things. What makes this difficult are some of the scofflaws out there who are using MABs to justify avoiding or circumventing a court order that suspends their driving privileges or someone who has an anti-authoritarian agenda. People like that attract unwanted attention and cause prejudice towards the rest of us who just want to ride our MABs legally and fully.

I applaud everyone in every state who is making a conscientous effort to ensure they are operating their MABs in a legal and safe manner and that includes going through the beaurocratic mess to get their bikes legal. That's what responsible people do in a civilized society.

 

[bairdco]

if its a protec helmet or other obvious skate helmet, yeah, they'll notice. and so will your head if it hits the ground at 30+. there's cheap MC helmets out there.try eBay.

will it do any good to buy a DOT sticker on ebay and put it on a regular skate helmet? will the police know? motorcycle helmets seem a bit pricey

 

[jburr36]

will it do any good to buy a DOT sticker on ebay and put it on a regular skate helmet? will the police know? motorcycle helmets seem a bit pricey

Here's a DOT approved helmet for $18. Doesn't seem too pricey to me.

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Motorcy...MM/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&qid=1309818210&sr=8-35

 

[dmb]

go to longbeach vet's, helmets everywhere. or go to carbonfiberhelmets.com for really nice $100 ones real kevlar and carbonfiber light and DOT

 

[MrKai]

Such an interesting...and long thread

Here is a bit of perspective from a California licensed DMV dealer that sells two-wheeled vehicles that span all of these classes, as we get people in the shop all the time with bad information...some of them coming from less-than-honest competitors:

The Basic Rule of Thumb - The only thing in California with two wheels you can drive on a public road without a license is a bicycle.

The 406(a)/(b) "confusion" in our experience in almost every case is proliferated by 1. people that cannot get a license and are looking for a "loophole"... 2. unscrupulous or uninformed resellers (usually, importers of Chinese electric bikes, or Chinese electric scooters they got 'on the super-cheap' because they are not DOT approved/49 CFR 567 compliant) 3. people that are trying to "beat the system".

It is really very, very simple: if your ride does NOT meet the very specific and narrow requirements of 406(b), then it is NOT exempt from license, registration and insurance requirements.

While motorized electric scooters/bikes/2-stroke bike mods can meet 406(a) and not be considered "Motor-Driven Cycles" only 406(b) classified Motorized Bicycles are exempted.

Anytime someone wants to...debate...this in the shop, we just hand them the book from the DMV. The DMV book has the exemption language in bold print

-K

 

[showcaller]

You actually spelled it out quite simply, at least the laws in California. There will be others who continue to be posts here that will insist otherwise, implying you are wrong.

 

[rustycase]

What a great presentation, MrKai !

I'm among those who would debate, though
and I'll do it in court when the time comes.

Best
rc

 

[showcaller]

Well good luck Rusty! While you're in court I will be riding on my way to work waving to the Burbank policemen who pass me in the left lane in their cars or on their motorcycles.

Let us all know how it goes and what you finally wind up spending trying to prove your interpretation of the law.

 

[MrKai]

What a great presentation, MrKai !

I'm among those who would debate, though
and I'll do it in court when the time comes.

Best
rc

I really don't understand this; the statute isn't in any way ambiguous. Which of the types I outlined above do you fall under?

-K

 

[bairdco]

welcome, MrKai, and thanks for the post. nice to see a dealer not trying to scam the public like so many of those craigslist sellers.

as for rustycase, some people always think they can beat the system. good luck with that. i'd rather pay the whopping 19 bucks and spend an hour at the DMV to get a permit than waste my time in a losing court battle.

even if you somehow get away with it the first time, the next time the same cop pulls you over, it'll be even worse. it's not like the judge is gonna give you some secret document exempting you from traffic laws.

 

[MrKai]

welcome, MrKai, and thanks for the post. nice to see a dealer not trying to scam the public like so many of those craigslist sellers.

We try to be as honest as we can. More importantly, getting a *real* California DMV dealer license to sell "motorcycles" (what people generally refer to as Scooters) is non-trivial and you want people to be safe and informed...as well as compliant with the law.

A lot of the sellers on craigslist honestly didn't know the limits of the statutes in California (California is very...picky) when they bought their stuff and their entire business was conceived to sell these products. Once they find out they are kind of stuck with them

Some "do the right thing" but sadly, as you noted, many simply do not.

-K

 

[showcaller]

Bairdco:

To be clear, yes it is only $19.00 (in Calif) to register your motorized bike. If it doesn't have a serial number, the state of California will give you one.

You still need, at minimum a M2 License which is for a motor scooter like a Vespa, regardless of the cc's. Doesn't matter if it is 50 or 300. An M 1 license is a motorcycle license which allows you to drive anything motorized on two wheels. You CANNOT show up at the DMV to take the skill test on you motorized bike. They will send you home. If you take your skill test on a motor scooter, you can legally drive a scooter or your motorized bike. If you take your skill test on a motorcycle that is 600 CC or less you can only (legally) drive a motorcycle up to 600 CC. If you take your skill test at a California Highway Patrol sanctioned driving school, even though you are going to spend the weekend on a a 125 cc motorcycle when you get your certification at the end of the course which waives the Motor Vehicle skill test, you can drive anything. This is the route I went and to this day I get a kick out of the fact that I can go into my local Kawasaki Motorcycle shop a half a mile away from my house and buy the largest motorcycle Kawasaki makes!

It is going to depend on the mood of the cop if/when he pulls someone like Rustycase over. If he or she decides to give a warning, consider yourself lucky. If the cop writes you up, you would be better off saving the court fees which are going to be alot more if you lose and just pay the fine and get legal. The CHP sanctioned course was around $250.00 My bet is that going to court is going to cost alot more than that.

Finally, maybe i didn't catch it the first time, but what state is rustycase in? Some states are pretty loose as far as motorized bikes and some (like California) want you to be totally registered and licensed.

 

[MrKai]

Bairdco:

To be clear, yes it is only $19.00 (in Calif) to register your motorized bike. If it doesn't have a serial number, the state of California will give you one.

You still need, at minimum a M2 License which is for a motor scooter like a Vespa, regardless of the cc's. Doesn't matter if it is 50 or 300.

Yeaaaahhhhhhh...no

"A motor scooter like a Vespa" is a motor-driven cycle. An M2 license is for *mopeds*.

From the DMV:
Class M2—You may operate any motorized bicycle, moped, or a bicycle with an attached motor, or a motorized scooter.

To California, a motor scooter like a Vespa is a small motorcycle. We have people all of the time swearing that a moped license covers a scooter. It doesn't.

Link: Motorcycle Handbook License Requirements

-K

 

[bairdco]

showcaller, i made it all clear in the first post in this thread. the next 27 pages are just for extra credit reading, a few laughs, and responses by anarchists.

 

[rustycase]

Well good luck Rusty! While you're in court I will be riding on my way to work waving to the Burbank policemen who pass me in the left lane in their cars or on their motorcycles.

Let us all know how it goes and what you finally wind up spending trying to prove your interpretation of the law.

Tnx SC,
Last time around totaled a good part of 7 years, absolutely no clue on how much spent on paperwork in $'s, or fuel costs to the distant courts, but I got a 60 day expense paid vacation at the last for my efforts.
... I waved at a tax collector on his beemer yesterday as he went past me...
(it won't take long)
rc


WoW!
In Burbank you must feel like a gladiator!
Too much of everything down there for me!!!
(But I'd like to go see Merle Norman's collection again. Is it still open?)

 

[SrtBrad]

Very Informative thread.