Custom Gas Tanks

[ocscully]

I don't know who this person is or may be but this ad was on the local Orange County Craigslist today Custom Gas Tanks for Motorized Bikes
I thought people here might find them interesting?

ocscully

 

[kipharley]

That's a cool tank for that price.He's not gonna get rich making them for that price! Kip.
[email protected]

 

[culvercityclassic]

I like the tanks but have to agree Kip...btw who has gotten rich off this hobby? Not me!!!

But it sure is fun!!!!

Ccc

 

[Nashville Kat]

How many miles per dead cat?

that seriously looks like casket!

his pricing is his own business, but I think somebody could make and sell tanks for less-definitely prohibitive here!

 

[BarelyAWake]

I think it's a catch 22...

Not only is making tanks a bit of a pain even w/jigs, those are aluminum - not known for it's malleability or ease of welding and it's curved no less. Add up all the hardware (2 petcocks, brackets, bung & cap, fasteners), the materials not just including all of the offcut scrap aluminum but all of the welding supplies, even any botched tanks (aluminum not being very forgiving during welding)... throw in the time it takes just to make them & I bet his profit margin isn't nearly what you would think.

Where there's a catch 22 is if he could gear up for "mass production" no doubt he could bring his costs down, not only by finalizing his jigs & assembly, but by buying his materials and parts in bulk... but given the market he's selling to and the limited number of frames that tank would fit perfectly on - I doubt he's got a lot of turn over.

Honestly? Given all of the above... about $200 per tank is I think a fair & acceptable price, it'd sell a lot better @ about $150 - but given the difficulties inherent in small production runs of a relatively complex product, that'd prolly put him into the minimum wage range. As most fabrication shops charge anywhere from 40-80 dollars an hour... well... *shrug*

Even though I've made my own tank and have free and unlimited access to a fabrication shop - I'd buy one of his in a heartbeat lol... tho I'll admit the style isn't my bag


Google up the prices for aluminum fuel cells sometime to get an idea of the average price for a "mass produced" aftermarket tank, even not "custom made" for your application... I think given the insanely low costs of the engines we tend to use as well as the commonality of extremely inexpensive box store bikes, we sometimes forget what's considered "normal" pricing for stuff...

 

[bairdco]

here's my opinion/statement.

as for the craigslist guy, his materials cost depends on a few things. good petcocks are 10 bucks, caps, 20+, and bungs, 30+. the steel is the cheapest, but then add in the cost of the machines to cut out the shapes, and the welding materials. and paint. too.

he might work at a shop with free use of a welder, gas, welding rods, or wire and electricity, but that doesn't mean the savings should be passed on to you.

tanks ain't cheap, and they definitely ain't easy to make. try it yourself and see what happens.

i'm in the process of building my 6th copper tank. materials-wise, it costs me about 50 bucks, and that's using a high-quality petcock, and brass fittings from Ace for the cap and bung.

i put in about 5 hours of hammering, cutting, bending, shaping, and soldering time today, and 3 hours the other day. i've got the basic shape together, and i still have another day's worth to install the petcock and bung, then grind, sand, and polish it.

then another day for it to sit around while the tank liner cures.

this tanks a little trickier, because i'm rounding it all out to fit the frame better, so there's a lot more work involved, and there are no templates for a future one, because of the shaping/hammering work. i started with a flat piece and beat it into a shape.

i've done 2 "toolbox" style tanks that had all flat sides, and those were easier, but still took at least a day.

i have no idea what a coppersmith makes an hour, but whatever it is, it's worth it.

i totally agree with BA's remarks about how people expect the rest of the parts to be as cheap as the motor kit. it just ain't so.

look at any other motorsport that uses custom tanks, expansion chambers, etc. they don't come cheap. the process of building a tank for a motorcycle is the same for a motorized bicycle. it doesn't cost any less because it's going on a bicycle.

if you think about it, it should cost more. if you buy a motorcycle frame, chances are there's 50 different tanks you can choose from. and those 50 tanks fit 75% of the aftermarket MC frames.

there's thousands of different bicycles being used out there, and all those frames are different. to make a production tank for any of them is a pretty big undertaking, with little reward.

even if someone were to market a tank for the Cranbrook (arguably the most popular "entry level" bike used for motorizing) you wouldn't sell enough to price it comparitively with the engine kit. low cost is the reason most people buy a Huffy. not too many people would pay 3 times the cost of the bike for a custom tank for it, and if they did, they'd end up with a useless tank after their bike falls apart.

hand made, custom products are disappearing, due to the "buy it now" mentality people have. it's old world craftsmanship in a new world order.

 

[meno]

Hi All
Can anyone give me some clues on brass tank caps and fitting needed for the tank.
Just about ready to start my first tank.

Meno from Australia

 

[MarkSumpter]

actually Kip, for $225 a tank he is making alot in profit. He most likely will only use that price for that style of bike frame,so he all ready has the hard part done which is the design and jigs he needs to make it. My guess it will take him less than 2 hours to build it, with about $30 in material.

Bairdco beat me to some of the numbers but factually speaking some of the hardware in those pictures is a little more expensive than you think. The hex tank cap is in the neighborhood of $46 on several sights and a decent bung can cost 20-30 dollars for aluminum.

Aluminum Bung and Cap $29

I think you are arbitrarily pulling a number out of your head rather than adding up the actual materials. What does a sheet of 4'X8' .125" aluminum cost? Sure you can probably get 8 tanks out of it but go buy just what you need and it will cost you MORE. Over all if you consider the over head and time involved $225 for that tank probably equates to $10 bucks an hour. You might be able to weld it up in 2 hours but I darn sure doubt you can do all of the fit and fab in that time frame even if you have jigs and patterns made up and a Leslie shear and power hammer former to help you out.

Hi All
Can anyone give me some clues on brass tank caps and fitting needed for the tank.
Just about ready to start my first tank.

Meno from Australia

Besides the link above for an aluminum bung here is Bung Kink

 

[MarkSumpter]

I was quoting numbers for me personally in what it would cost me to make,since i have connections in the industry and would not use an internet link for my pricing.

You should understand that part being in the field you were in, you could easily get auto parts cheaper than an ordinary builder could.


the advertised tank he is selling for $250,If I copied his idea and made one for myself ,it would take me about 2 hours minus the paint job with about $30 in materials,thats all I was saying, I was not saying people with limited welding/fabrication skills could duplicate what he has made..

Your numbers are still flawed in that even if you got the aluminum bungs at 20% off for buying 10 or more which is more or less a standard discount from any supplier then the cost of the bung and stock cap would still be in the $24 dollar price range. Unless you are contracting to buy larger lots in the hundreds will you not likely get a better price. No matter if this is an internet link or not the price is pretty much standard of all of the dealers I have found and they will have to at some point be making enough money off of you to stay in business whether they are your "Contacts" or not, so they can't sell it at cost to you. *Edit* Forgot to add 2 petcocks at about $10 each and flush mount bungs for them at $3.40 ea. */Edit*

On the issue of time I would buy a tank from you if you can document that it takes you 2 hours start to finish minus the paint for full fab fitup and weld for that tank and that you can do it for $30. If you can then you would be a far better fitter and haggler than any I have ever met and that would be saying something. Needless to say even if you could do it in that price range for 1 or 2 tanks you could not produce them in any quantity because at some point your free resources will run out and you will have to build them based on a real business model.

I would estimate the weld time to be 1.5- 2 hours alone, cut out and fit would probably have to be in the 2 hour range and that is only if you have the patterns premade. Break time for the tunnel including set up .5- 1 hr. grind and finish welds and blend to surface 1 hr. Fit inlet bung and and fuel outlets at a minimum of .5 hr. and this is not accounting pressure testing and if you find a leak repairing it. Then what about the hardware needed to mount the tank? that also take some time to fabricate and install onto a finished assembly.

Taking into all of the time even if everything went perfectly and counting the hardware and materials it is way above your estimate. The guy darn sure isn't making a ton on these tanks.

 

[camlifter]

it's prety obvious from the post in this thread that the people who have actually built a custom tank know the time, materiels and cost of building a tank like this, this guys price is more than fair for the work involved. having built over 50 tanks myself i know for a fact he's not making much profit on them. more like working for minimum wage. if anyone can replicate one for $30 in 2 hours i'd like to see them prove it.

 

[MarkSumpter]

it's prety obvious from the post in this thread that the people who have actually built a custom tank know the time, materiels and cost of building a tank like this, this guys price is more than fair for the work involved. having built over 50 tanks myself i know for a fact he's not making much profit on them. more like working for minimum wage. if anyone can replicate one for $30 in 2 hours i'd like to see them prove it.

As I said I will pay to see it done if it is documented. Oh BTW Hurricane the tank can't kinda lean to one side when you have it done either. *snicker*

 

[MarkSumpter]

And Mark by your own admission you cant weld to save your life,so How could you even understand the process that went into making a tank like the one the OP posted ?

If you reread my admission it was that I am a better grinder than welder and that while I can lay down a decent bead I am by no means a professional welder to the degree my father is or several others I know.

As to my not being qualified to express an opinion concerning the processes involved to build a tank. I have fabricated many things over the years and think I posted a far more accurate appraisal of the fab process required for such a project than just throwing a number off the top of my head.

Dont worry Hurricane we arent laughing at you we are laughing with you.... Errrr correction... we are laughing at your statement so by default laughing at you.

 

[bairdco]

if i had a welder, a pile of petcocks, bungs and caps, and sheet aluminum lying around, i could make a tank for free.

well, 6.50 for a pack of smokes while i'm doing it...

 

[MarkSumpter]

if i had a welder, a pile of petcocks, bungs and caps, and sheet aluminum lying around, i could make a tank for free.

well, 6.50 for a pack of smokes while i'm doing it...

Can you beat 2 hours though?

Hey Bairdco those are some expensive smokes but what do I know I quit 10 years ago. LOL...

 

[Goat Herder]

Maybe if we just pinched in and Bought Hurricane some smokes! Sorry could not resist lol. There's gotta be some humor in here some where?

 

[MarkSumpter]

Heck I have been laughing since page 1.

 

[bairdco]

i don't think i could do it in two hours. but i could alumiweld a petcock onto a beer can and ziptie it to my bike in about 5 minutes.

 

[MarkSumpter]

bairdco wins

 

[kipharley]

Sorry,I don't qualify to voice my opinion,I've only been a welder/fabricator for 40 years and have built from scratch much more complicated project's than a motorized bicycle gas tank.out of materials such as alu,stainless, magnesium,titanium.So count me out!Kip.
[email protected]

 

[BarelyAWake]

Well... this thread certainly has spiraled unexpectedly... not quite sure as to why some folks are gettin' a lil ruffled *shrug*

I figure it like this - if such seems excessively expensive and yer sure you could do better for less, please do so. The market is desperate for quality fuel tanks at an "affordable" price, if you've the skills and resources to generate a profit selling a tank at a price drastically less than what few are available, you've found one of the few "holy grail" products almost guaranteed to sell so fast as to be unable to keep up with demand... very few like the "peanut tanks" and the bikes they look good on fewer still.

While there's some gifted builders making and selling custom tanks for folks, the dilemma as I see it it pretty straightforward - as the tanks are labor-intensive and the materials costly, the availability is limited to some comparatively exotic frames and/or those frames somewhat more expensive due to their quality, as those are the only customers willing to pay such an amount in the first place. This low turnover rate and limited market alone keeps the pricing higher than what could be possible were there a greater demand... which is actually a bit of another catch 22, where you able to provide a lower price due to relative "mass production" you'd get far more sales - enabling "mass production" lol

Currently, what few aftermarket tanks there are are all quite limited runs, if not each and every one a "one off" which is the absolutely most costly manufacturing process by far, bar none as each is incredibly time consuming, tediously hand crafted for your specific bike, any error or return from a dissatisfied customer completely destroying what small profit margin there may be. Were there the possibility of a more "generic" tank similar to the one posted here, one that fit a wide selection of less expensive bikes like the commonplace box store cantilever frame and cost half or less than the few custom tanks available now - people would most likely beat down your door, you'd have so much demand you'd prolly hafta hire help just to keep up.

Yet... given the sheer number of folks wishing to support their own MB habit by going into business for themselves, the untold hundreds, if not thousands of people seeking a viable product to sell, something unique yet greatly in demand and given just how ideally a low-cost aftermarket tank would fit the bill... and yet still no one has managed exactly that...

Ya gotta wonder why.