Goats Head

[Goat Herder]

I weigh about 330 pounds, but I can still run these tires at 16-18 psi when I want to. The drawback is that they are thick-treaded and slow as street tires go. But they are so cushy I can't resist them. I don't think these tires are available anymore, or at least I can no longer find them. When I have to change them out, my consolation will be the tires I was using before: Schwalbe Big Apple 26 x 2.35" slicks. These are faster, but less high and mighty.



I do recall having had at least one flat in each kind of tire on my mountain bike. On another one of my bikes equipped with Big Apples

Even though both these tires seem tough and streetworthy, I don't expect that either of them would put up a worthy fight against New Mexican goatheads. The Kenda would do a bit better, just because it has more rubber on the tread.

Chalo

I don't recall having flats on anything since my Austin nail. That's has been at least 17,000 miles since then. Nope just remembered. I did get one on my motorized picked up a nail[to the rim] at 30 miles an hour on a rapture tire that was 26x52/34 tire size.[Bike frame clearance is why I had a smaller tire]

Then there was also the razz-er blade that was still sticking out of the same tire[rear] a weak later when I got home riding. [Key word home] It was through the tube and about a 8 to 10 mm gash. Honestly when I got to the house I looked at one of my arms and saw a speck of green. I was lucky I did not get as dirty as I would of expected. I hosed off the bike. The slime sealed off the hole fast enough not to make a big mess.

I don't like to count that as a flat because I pulled the razz-er blade out re-aired the tire and road it for 7 more days. Sure I had to re air it every once in awhile it did good considering. [till pay day]

Yet I gotta say that's me with the 10mm slits. I did that on my own risk can't recommend that folks try it. Just getting a my views out. At some point use good judgment get a new tire and tube. Uber speeds or just plain riding on any kind of bike is kinda silly just plain wrong if the tire is severely compromised!

Some of us consider the lousy ride quality of a tire with a tire liner to be a problem. That problem would be one that doesn't go away even in your best case scenario.
Chalo

Funny you should mention this because the tire you are suggesting has a bulky liner in the tire. Doing the same thing if not worse. http://jimsbikeblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/schwalbe-marathon-plus-image.jpg My tires with no liner extra soft tire and thick tubes rolls awesome! Your tire is like having a power robbing tire liner. Not necessary with slime and my set up!

There is a place for Slime. In my opinion, that place is the tubes of someone who does all his own service, and doesn't mind the tradeoffs.
Chalo

I don't want a mechanic working on my car that is bashful about getting dirty.

If you lose only 1 mph to clunky-riding tires and tubes, it doesn't take very much riding at all before you are giving up a lot more time to them than you would to fixing the odd flat-- and that doesn't even take into consideration the less pleasant ride of tires that thud instead of bounce.
Chalo

Funny you should mention this because your tire with the built in tire liner and scabby [for a better word dunno] would be a rough ride

Think for a moment what highly engineered automobiles and motorcycles use
Chalo

I gave this a thunk a long time ago!

If you take the palm of your hand and press on your pants leg then try to slide your palm the harder you press your hand the harder it is to move your palm. Now if your palm had traction it would be even harder.

Now a motorcycle weighs considerably more than a bicycle. [your extra stiff scabbed tread slicks with built in tire liner] Also imagine older aged rubber on the tread so stiff it will not even try to grab the road. A mild tread that is flexible will regain traction and not hydro-plain.

So a bicycle is not a good match for such a tire in my opinion. Automobiles and motorcycles are something scaled up in a different class of weight verses traction. They weigh enough to flex the tires too. Take a stock Oldsmobile 98 and a old Volks Wagon which one is going to hold the road better when testing skidding and cornering on pavement?

Lots of cars with the stock tires have more flex to them to grab and claw there way into the road.

Take into account my tires are softer and much more flexible at the tread area with out even thinking about how aggressive of knobbies they might have. If they made slicks that did not have all the crud that makes them so stiff I might using them.

I like my knobby extra soft tires when some of the aggression is wore down on my peddle bikes. They flex perfectly with no drag from a tire liner or pre-lined extra stiff tire. I ride my tires until they are bald with no worries of flats. I just don't use any form of tire liners ever!

That doesn't mean that a motorized bike should be any heaver, slower, or clunky-riding than necessary,
Chalo

Who cares ya have a motor on it why not a smooth ride.

Do you have any tire suggestions for those of us that want reasonable flex in the tread like I am suggesting. Keep in mind my tires aired up to 40 psi are perfect to me, the road is very play full and I can feel the tires flexing and clawing down. Seriously I want to know?

I am not talking about extreme knobbies here I am talking about real traction from a flexible tire. I can take my thumb and easly push in on the tread portion of the tire aired at 40 psi.

I am suggesting this because these tires are the Holly grail to me. Some of us cannot put hella wide tires on to make up for stiff dragging pre-tire-liner-ed tread flex in order to get traction.

Notice my bike is geared for long distance running I am always on a greedy quest to go search and find Goat Heads http://motorbicycling.com/attachments/f11/28871d1283972071-goats-head-001.jpg I hate some of the cruisers its like working on the bike on the side of the road now its gonna take all day to get there. Gearing peddling and going no where. Snork!!!


Just so you know I did not bring up my case of Austin being slick in the rain just here lately I have spoke of it on the forum before months ago http://motorbicycling.com/f47/fr31-scsw-boxer-13930-12.html

I care about peoples safety!!!


While I have said before my tires are softer they were engineered for traction down hill competition.
The same approach could be said of a milder tread pattern. They don't go screaming down a mountain on hella stiff scabbed tires. Remember I am talking about a bicycle here we are scaled down for weight verses traction. The ratio is an uneven match for a stiff tire. Bikes are engineered to be light.

You admitted having to go as low as 16-18 psi to get your traction to work. Mine is always working!

I follow the pro's YouTube - Longest Bicycle Downhill
Sure this does not match all we see on a street. But its a cool Video! These guy's ride here in Albuquerque with my kinda tires [flex] in mountain trails. They will run thin slime tubes too. There tires flex and they get traction while they test the limits of there skill!

I chose the world champion ship series steel beaded down hill tires for my Morini not for quit the aggressive tread but the flex. That is what holds a road. Ever since Austin Texas I ride world champion down hill type tires. Once again for the flex, yes I will not lie I love the tread too! It just does it for me.. More traction..

 

[allen_okc]

i hear you chalo - we just got pissed on pretty good here, OKC oklahoma, but no where as much you folks down there. im glad you made it through the storm. i seen the video footage of the tornado you had there too...

the mid west sure provides major challenges to riding - i ride daily myself through 115 degree heat, rain, floods, snow, high winds, tornados and lightning. now we have been gettin earth quakes here. if we start gettin sunomies, im out of here...

but i really like the ideal of the tire liners and slime together with my kenda flame tires, and if i get a flat from that then that will be just the way it is, until they can make radial tire for bikes...

in our case a radial tire or motorcycle similiar tire should be available to us - these bikes with our engines in them are facing new problems, higher speeds create a higher danger. when tires wont grab the road and go flat from a simple goat head, then its time to change the way of thinking for the bicycle tire - we are talking alternative transportations here - we need fatter tires 2.25 with thicker rubber and the cushing of a radial.

why the bicycle tire makers cant see this - they really need to get on the ball on whats in and whats not... just my opinion...

 

[Chalo]

but i really like the ideal of the tire liners and slime together with my kenda flame tires, and if i get a flat from that then that will be just the way it is, until they can make radial tire for bikes...

Radial tires have been made for bikes-- Maxxis is making one that is available now. Panaracer made one in the past. They are not more puncture resistant than any other tires.

Here's a link: Radiale-22c

Radial is a casing design, not a level of construction. It means the structural fibers in the tire go from bead to bead perpendicularly, rather than at an angle as in the usual bias-ply design. Radials almost always have circumferential belts to keep inflation pressure from tearing the radial cords apart. There are lots and lots of belted bicycle tires, too-- but the belts are for puncture protection, not for holding in the radial casing. The Schwalbe Marathon Plus tire works because it has a belt between casing and tread-- but it is a belt of polyurethane rubber, not a band of steel wires like a car tire.

It's difficult to make a radial tire for a two-wheeled vehicle that behaves well-- which is why motorcycles didn't get radials for decades after cars had them, and why bicycle radials have not succeeded in the market after several tries. The late, great Sheldon Brown had this to say about them:

"Radial tires have been tried for bicycles, but they tend to be too floppy from side to side. This floppiness feels quite unpleasant in actual riding--much like the feel of a grossly underinflated tire."

Chalo

 

[allen_okc]

Thank You Chalo - but i believe if they can put a man on the moon then they can build a tire that is completely thorn proof... glass proof and nail proof... and handle with stoutness and roll easy ability...

i had a flat once with a thorn proof tube by a little sliver of glass, could barely see it. luckily it had slim in it and got me home, but it went flat over night... thats why i have at least three 2.25 and 3.0 tubes on standing by and those air pressured canister in the saddle bags...

 

[Chalo]

Thank You Chalo - but i believe if they can put a man on the moon then they can build a tire that is completely thorn proof... glass proof and nail proof... and handle with stoutness and roll easy ability...

Except for the rolling resistance part-- and the ride quality part you didn't mention-- you can buy perfectly flatproof tires:

Bicycle Tires Guaranteed to Never Go Flat

But they are a bit slower that pneumatic tires, they ride rather harshly, and they are hard on wheels.

Even when men walked on the moon, they still couldn't change the fact that puncture resistance and rolling resistance go hand in hand for pneumatic tires. They used non-pneumatic tires for their moon buggy:

The low gravity of the moon surely helped these do the job. The Lunar Rover's tires were rated to carry a load of 60 lbs. each for a distance of 75 miles. As Earth cyclists, we'd prefer to use more robust tires than that.

Chalo

 

[Goat Herder]

i had a flat once with a thorn proof tube by a little sliver of glass, could barely see it. luckily it had slim in it and got me home, but it went flat over night... thats why i have at least three 2.25 and 3.0 tubes on standing by and those air pressured canister in the saddle bags...

If you got a flat from glass or a razz-er blade per say the tire is most likely slashed. In wich case it would be time for a tire as well that would be a unsafe ride!

 

[Goat Herder]

Wtb Moto Raptor Race Folding Mountain Tire 57283 at Cambriabike

Is the best tire I have found so far they don't have a propensity to catch nails. The tread is not that aggressive in person when you see them. They corner perfectly. The only reason I ever caught a nail with one was because I had a very aggressive front tire at the time. On my peddle bikes that I ran them front and rear on. I have never caught anything[ Knocks on wood]Not saying it would never happen lol. This is prolly and will be my all time favorite tire.

This is the best all around tire I can brag for flex and traction. With my recipe of thick tube and slime. I have had no probs running these front and rear.

 

[reb1]

In addition to a patch kit. I always carry a spare tube, contact cement and several boots made out of Levis. If I get a large hole or slice in a tire I can glue a boot to the inside of the tire and put a new tube in. This will allow me to make it home.

 

[Goat Herder]

Wow I never thought about the Levis. That's a Rambo survival tactic for sure

 

[allen_okc]

Except for the rolling resistance part-- and the ride quality part you didn't mention-- you can buy perfectly flatproof tires:

Bicycle Tires Guaranteed to Never Go Flat

But they are a bit slower that pneumatic tires, they ride rather harshly, and they are hard on wheels.

Even when men walked on the moon, they still couldn't change the fact that puncture resistance and rolling resistance go hand in hand for pneumatic tires. They used non-pneumatic tires for their moon buggy:

The low gravity of the moon surely helped these do the job. The Lunar Rover's tires were rated to carry a load of 60 lbs. each for a distance of 75 miles. As Earth cyclists, we'd prefer to use more robust tires than that.

Chalo

I LIKE IT...

 

[happycheapskate]

Looking for something else when came across this thread again.

SLIME is bad idea in car tires. I tried it. It cost me a lot. I put SLIME in 4 15" passenger car/pickup truck tires on a ranger pickup. I couldn't get over 55 without a little shake, and by 65 or 70 it was hoppin. In the winter it was even worse. I had it all cleaned out of my tires and rebalanced, but they are still worn a little from the few months I ran it that way and not smooth riding like when new. Don't do it unless you drive 55 everywhere, or you might have to get new shocks or worse.

I was considering making my own tubes (seriously) out of the vynyl hoses, by using tire cement (or vinyl glue http://www.ehow.com/how_8416314_repair-hole-air-mattress-silicone.html) at the junction (with a 1" overlap) and gluing on valves from conventional tubes. I don't know how well tire cement will work on them, or how the ride would be if it worked. I heard of a man who used to live under communist rule in USSR that made his own tubes from hoses, for an old road bike. He said it rode rough but didn't get flats. Could be just a wild story though. I also considered just sealing the ends with somethng (heat, or glue), and using the tubes that way. There are BMX tubes that work that way, so you don't have to pull the wheel off. E-bikes could use them too. Another idea is to use a tube that got poked, by cutting it and sealing the ends, putting it inside a backwash hose and poking the valve through, then installing the "snake" tube like the BMX tube I mentioned, tucking the vinyl tube inside itself at the junction.

Tullyamo sad to say it may not work out well in the winter there with the cars . That stuff might turn into a block of ice inside the tires. Makes a wicked tire out of balance situation.

I have road a bike through every winter here with out that problem. I like to run high end down hill forks mainly because I am six feet tall. Most bikes are geared toward shorter people. I like my peddle cranks a bit out from under me.

What I was getting at I don't leave my bikes outside I bring them in lol.

 

[allen_okc]

i just use a good quality thorn proof tire with a liner and never had any problems after that with thorns...

oklahoma has some very serious thorns here too...

i have more problems with the valve stem getting ate up by the beach cruiser rim...

but i never had any problems with the slime causing a balance problems... it is a completely different senario with a car that rotates a tire a 65mph compared to a bicycle tire that rotates at 40mph at most...

 

[Goat Herder]

I never tried it in a car, but have been up to well past 40mph never had any issues what so ever with up to 14 ounces in a big tire.. I have a full blown Mountain here I can gingerly ride down from

 

[happycheapskate]

re: chewing up the valve. If you use Presta valves, in a Shrader drilled rim, you can cut 1" sections of Bic Pen tube for P-S adapters, works great.

If you are using a Shrader valve in Shrader rim, maybe you can get a rat tail file and chamfer the holes a little bit to keep them from cutting. Use Gorilla Tape for rim tape, and the tube will quit shuffling in there.

 

[DaveC]

I found Duro Easy Ride Tires beat the liners hands down. The polyethylene liner is inside the tire itself and it's a solid band. It also serves to keep the tire from expanding out. Very smooth tread, a city bike tire. In addition the sidewalls are called "FlakJacket". Very tough woven nylon product to prevent sidewall cuts. And it's reflectorized to boot

 

[fastfingas]

Now that you're talking about flats ,,,I went to my bike shop and asked for a patch kit he came back with a little box no bigger than a match box!!!I said wheres the glue ??? he said don't use glue any more use these like a band aid ????cost me 6.00 dollars!!!! still haven't used any of them????

 

[happycheapskate]

Lol. That is why i don't use bike shops much for anything. Glueless patches suck. I've had better luck with electrical tape. haha.

Look on Amazon if you want the fancy little box and smooth-edged ready patches and little tube of glue, 3.50 a box or less.

http://www.canaltire.com/shopping/images/PRODUCT/medium/91274.jpg

I rather get stuff like this: (economy rubber patch kit, $4-10) from auto parts/hardware

http://media.mydoitbest.com/imagerequest.aspx?SKU=575005&size=2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rubber-Patc...-Kit-New-cycling-/250744634541#ht_1916wt_1140 $11 shipped USA, 48 patches with smooth edges!


and just do them all at home while I watch a show on the internet.

 

[happycheapskate]

PS a cigarette lighter and a sharp pocketknife or sandpaper will do wonders! DON'T burn the glue. Just scrape or sand the area (no seams!), poke the hole so some glue gets in there (no bubble!), heat the tube and dry it well, then add the dash of glue and swab it out with your finger. It will dry smooth and the patch will hold well.

 

[happycheapskate]

Wow, that looks awesome. Heavy, though! Will it work with friction drives? $32!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VSsdngoDL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Duro-Easy-Ride-Tire-Reflective/dp/B006VEOOL0

I found Duro Easy Ride Tires beat the liners hands down. The polyethylene liner is inside the tire itself and it's a solid band. It also serves to keep the tire from expanding out. Very smooth tread, a city bike tire. In addition the sidewalls are called "FlakJacket". Very tough woven nylon product to prevent sidewall cuts. And it's reflectorized to boot

 

[allen_okc]

re: chewing up the valve. If you use Presta valves, in a Shrader drilled rim, you can cut 1" sections of Bic Pen tube for P-S adapters, works great.

If you are using a Shrader valve in Shrader rim, maybe you can get a rat tail file and chamfer the holes a little bit to keep them from cutting. Use Gorilla Tape for rim tape, and the tube will quit shuffling in there.

Thank You happycheapskate, that is exactly what i ended up doing, but only after the second brand new tube got ate up... two years now on the same third tube...