Paint not hardening??

[vwine]

I recently painted my bike for a new project..
I dissasembled my bike
i sanded it down really good with 80 grit sand paper.
cleaned it good, then primered it. and waited 20 hours or so.
then painted it with Orange Krylon spraypaint.
I did an excellent job painting it, using about 2.5 cans of paint on my frame.
24 hours later i wet sanded it sith 1200 grit sand paper. Cleaned it, then put a few clear
coats on it.... about 20 hours later. The paint job looks nice, but seems kinda weak.
If I use my finger nail and push down on it it will make an endension in the paint...
I dont have an oven for it or anything... and it is about 50 degrees here.. maybe thats it?
How can I make the paint harden? OH, I just put wax on it a few minutes ago to make it shinier.. hoping that it will protect a little.... So does anyone know how to make the paint harden? thanks.

 

[BarelyAWake]

It often takes far longer for paint to actually cure then just "dry to the touch" & ready for another coat - I bet ya simply added a few too many coats a lil too fast (time between coats, not types of paint) and perhaps a lil too cold.

It'd been better if ya hadn't waxed it quite yet but it'll be fine, just remember it's still "soft" and be careful with zip/cable ties and stuff 'cause they'll embed into the paint. Just park it in the direct sun and leave it, do the other side the next day - that'll give it a pretty good cure, it'll get better with time


oh right, I use halogen work lights as poor man's heat lamps;

They're cheap and they work really well to set paint. Keep 'em about two feet or more away from the surface so ya don't cook anything heh

 

[vwine]

It often takes far longer for paint to actually cure then just "dry to the touch" & ready for another coat - I bet ya simply added a few too many coats a lil too fast (time between coats, not types of paint) and perhaps a lil too cold.

It'd been better if ya hadn't waxed it quite yet but it'll be fine, just remember it's still "soft" and be careful with zip/cable ties and stuff 'cause they'll embed into the paint. Just park it in the direct sun and leave it, do the other side the next day - that'll give it a pretty good cure, it'll get better with time

BarelyAWake, Thanks for the quick response..
Here in Bavaria Germany the sun doesnt seem to shine lol.. But I do have a space heater I will use.
Thanks for the advice. I have about 3 days until my motor gets here, so It will have time. Glad knowing it will harden eventually though. I applied a coat every 20 minutes btw... Dunno if that was right.. Once again. Thanks for the advice and quick response. VW

 

[BarelyAWake]

No worries

20min between coats is pushin' it even for (heavy) primer but is usually ok, with color coats and clears it usually takes longer... but so much depends on the temp and type of paint, even the thickness of coat. Still as you've noticed - you can get away w/murder when usin' rattlecans lol so it's w/e works.

If that "space heater" you have is a radiant electric it'll be good (2'+ rule again), but don't try with propane/kerosene or other fuel type heaters - not only is there a big fire hazard from fumes but the combustion can generate airborne particles and ruin a nice job... don't ask how I know o.o

 

[HoughMade]

Bareky is right. That's a lot of paint in a short period of time. You can not follow the timing published for automotive finishes with rattle can paint. The solvent evaporates out much, much more slowly than that used in commercial finishes. If it were me, I would give it at least a week before wet sanding, then 2 or more weeks after the final coats before I did anything with it. Honestly, though, I'm more than a little obsessive about these things.

Good luck!

 

[DOC BOLM]

I think the wax might cause a problem,the paint cures from the outside/ in.Most wax should not be used untill the paint is hard.

 

[vwine]

Alright, well in this little bit of time i learned alot.
thanks to all of you that replied.

my heater is radiant.. and will be placed 2' or more.
Whats done is done, and I will give my bike more time in the heat, and surely
it will harden itself. But now I have to do the forks.. And I know now not to rush it. Thanks alot.
VW

 

[flybytaco]

wax is sooooooooooooooo bad 8 mths b4 waxin my friend the solvents cant breath through the wax

 

[vwine]

jeesh.. well wax is done.. I did it...... err.
I got how to paint your bike from youtube... and the dude waxed it right afterwards..
I would call him an idiot.. but ****, i copied him... lol
Well if something goes wrong with the pain job, I have another 8 bucks for paint..
Thanks

 

[BarelyAWake]

*shrug* tho what ppl have said about wax & fresh paint is true, I'd really not worry about it too much - what's done is done and it'll prolly be fine. First application of wax & prolly thin, if it does prove to be a problem long-term then another scuff & squirt next season is easy 'nuff... I ride the bejabbers outa my bikes so an annual touch-up is pretty much mandatory heh

Heck - even building it the first time does a number on the paint, once you've ridden it a season to work the kinks out, then ya worry a perfect paint job I figure Part of the charm about rattlecans is it's so easy to redo/change a paint job so I don't sweat it too much.

 

[flybytaco]

just saying baw. when i had my honda painted i was dying to wax it bad!!! i use presta spray n wax on it thats safe it has no sealers also it cost me 1 k to paint it so u see why i followed the painters directions lol

 

[BarelyAWake]

defo taco - I can diggit, so much depends on what yer plannin' & what yer paintin' heh

 

[chrisE]

ya i painted a bike back in november using rattle cans ( i live in California not too cold) it still took a good couple of weeks to not take an indent from my finger nail ( i did lay the paint on kinda thick and quick between coats). so im still learning patience with paint.

 

[vwine]

Hey guys, Just so yall can have an idea of my bike.. the forks are going to be black...not primer lol.
And why is the 36t sprocket on the front wheel? i dunno.... I ordered a nice set of 12 guage steel wheels from pistonbikes.com and im waitin to mount it on those... I am also working on making a set back seat post..(boardtracker style) not sure what they are called.. Ive built a few of these, but this one is more than just the kit mounted, i want it to be perfect.

 

[fasteddy]

I just sprayed the Monark with acrylic enamel and since it has a hardner in it, there is a definate spray time between coats. All paint should be sprayed at around 70 degrees.
I'm waiting about 3 days before I do anything with mine. I won't even handle it since I have been warned that oil on your hands can affect the finish even after it is sprayed and appears dry.

I think that waxing the paint too soon lets the silicones in the wax attack the paint. Silicone is what causes fish eyes in paint. I can tell you from many sad experiances the sinking feeling that you get from looking back at a perfect pass with a spray gun and watching the fish eyes form as the solvents pull some long forgotten spill up out of the wood.

I am not a professional painter but 40+ years of restoring antique furniture and hanging around friends body shops teaches you enough about spraying and temperatures that finishes work ok in. Heat is a must because a large amount of the drying happens in the first hours after your finished spraying. In this period the solvents in the paint release and kick off the drying process. Not enough heat and the paint breaks down a little as the solvents keep it soft and it never reaches it's correct hardness.

This is why some paints and primers give you a time to recoat or you have to sand the finish if you are going to recoat it. The solvents have gone and the finish has to be sanded to give the new coat a tooth to bond to. Spray it in the given time frame and the new coat melts into the surface of the previous coat.

I was good at sanding and could tape off cars ect. so was always asked to help out when my friends got busy.
Painters are a tough lot since the vehicle is judged by the quality of the paint and there is always a love/hate relationship between bodymen and the painters since if the bodyman doesn't do it right the painter has to send it back and as you can guess that makes waves.
I worked with a painter who was the best I have ever seen. He didn't just spray paint, he knew what the paint did every step of the way until it was dry. That's how I know.

He was spraying his own custom car when one of the bodymen who he fought with all the time walked by the spray booth and stuck a bottle of silicone spray up agaist the filters of the spray booth door and gave it a long, hard blast and hid the can.
The car was a disaster and so was the bodyman when the painter finished with him.

Police looked at the car and never pressed charges. The body man left the state since he couldn't get a job because the word was out.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

chrisE, the way I was told, paint is a three step process.

Spray a light coat first. You can see the primer through the paint. That is the tack coat and it holds the next coat so it doesn't run.

Next coat is the colour coat. You may see a little light/dark variations some places.

The finish coat gives you the final paint job.

The hardest thing I had to learn was that you couldn't do it all in one or two coats and not to pile it on. My nickname when I first started as a kid helping in a body shop and they let me spray primer once in a while, was Curtains. When you look at runs as they cascade down a body panel you will see why. I got very good at shaving runs. One of the best if I say so myself. Lord knows I had lots of practise.

The fact your paint was still soft after 2 weeks is normal if you painted it heavily with enamel. This is why they bake the finish on in body shops that do enamel paint so the hardner kicks off.
Our bikes went through long heated tunnels with air blowing on them so that they could be painted and primed without waiting for them to dry normally.

Steve.

 

[matt167]

wax is sooooooooooooooo bad 8 mths b4 waxin my friend the solvents cant breath through the wax

8 months is a bit excessive time to wait.. general consensus in the auto body field is 1 month is long enough to wait before waxing... waxing early causes what's known as solovant pop

 

[flybytaco]

well my painter is a platinum certified ppg tech i think i believe him ya

 

[matt167]

well my painter is a platinum certified ppg tech i think i believe him ya

That's probably his reccomendation, not anything PPG actually recommends.. any painter I'v ever talked to said 1 month before waxing.. I'v never had a problem waiting a month before waxing anything I'v painted.. but I'v seen the mess, waxing days or weeks after causes

he's probably had some kind of adhesion issue at some point and blamed it on 'waxing early'.

 

[vwine]

Here are some updates on my bike..
Its coming up pretty well.. Im still waiting on my new motor and rims.. Cant wait till they get here..
This is my first time paint job, and im using rattle can paint.. Any suggestions on anything would be great.. or complaints.. . It is a sunny day outside right now, so i have my bike out cooking, paint is hardening finally.. so thats a relief thanks to all that helped me with advice.
Soon to have.. sitback seat post which is in the making. =)... And also my forks will soon be black..