Zen & pp/e bike

[deacon]

I took the hub pp&e bike for another real world test. First out onto a busy street and with pedal power ran it about 2 1/2 blocks. Then it was a right turn onto a simi quiet street where I almost got killed. Stupid four wheeler turned left in front of me when I planned to turn right. Good thing that I am always afraid of car drivers.

It was down hill about three blocks on human power and mostly gravity. Right turn for three long blocks slight incline. PP&e power combined. Mostly pedal with a little hub now and then to keep the speed up. It seems to make it easier to pedal if the speed is up for some reason. Then another right turn for another two blocks with a little more incline. More hub power than pedal at that point.

Yet another right turn for about five uphill blocks with the amount of incline increasing as I went. It finally got to a pretty good incline where It was mostly pedal with the hub helping out. Even then I didn't get winded so I considered it a success on the hill. One more right turn for a long very slight decline to my house.

There was one interesting moment. The last intersection is onto a busy street. Yes I live on a major street. I had a garbage truck come up along side of me. and another one trying to make a right turn into the small street where I sat. None of us was quite sure what to do. Finally the truck beside me rolled back and the one on the major street pulled in. After the backed up traffic cleared I pulled out.

I realized from the woman who tried to run me down, and the garbage truck that no one was quite sure what to do. Also that people really do see us different. If they see us at all.

Another enlightening experience with no real answers. One thing I can say with pretty good confidence that it is true. Unless you live in a very flat area or you want exercise you need more than 250 watts. I can also say that in a slightly hilly area like mine, the 250 will work with a little help from the PP part.

I'm going to shoot a picture of the pp&e hubber bubber when my camera charges.

that last one is pretty much the view the policeman had of me on sunday when he didn't stop me for the helmet violation.

 

[deacon]

I rode the pp&e bike up to the bike shop not too far from my house. I let the owner ride it and in return he gave me an old kids scooter motor that he had laying around. I have taken to riding with a toboggan rather than a helmet. Nobody seems to notice so I'm not going to change anything.

The bike did fine, except for a couple of large hills that were doable but a challenge. That's what I wanted so I'm not too concerned.

The bike shop guy got to talking to me and said the curry man came by and tried to sell him an izip for the shop. I told him I almost bought one from Kmart for three hundred bucks and he dropped his teeth. The curry one is three times the watts on the engine and it looks like that much more in price as well.

He was saying you could buy a nice gasoline moped scooter almost for the cost of the curry bike retail. He was not talking about the six hundred dollar moped either.

 

[grouchyolfart]

Forgot where I got the link, but those Curry systems are nice. Only down side is the price. Well over a grand. Your bike shop guy was right. You can get a brand new 2 stroke scooter that'll do almost 50 mph bone stock out the door, for less.

 

[deacon]

I'm one of those people who can't leave well enough alone. Yesterday last night and this morning, I worked on friction drive ebikes. Sometimes you just have to know what if. What if I hooked one of these friction drive motors up to the hub bike. What would that little extra kick do.

Yeah I did it. I tried it on just the steep hills to conserve the battery power. Well it cut the battery life in half even though I lifted the motor when it wasn't in use. Did it help on the hills only a little. I would rather carry more batteries than to carry around the extra weight of scooter motor hanging on the side. So that project has been tested and found wanting.

Now I am going to make a second battery pack. Also a new carrier so that I can easily switch then out or carry them both at the same time. If I do that I can just unplug one and plug in the other to get me home. That is what is cool about the 24 volt packs. They are smaller and easier to deal with.

 

[deacon]

It's raining so I can't ride. I took a look around the site from sheer boredom. I found that people are still beating up on us e-bike riders. You know all bike riders are 4th class road users anyway, The only users behind us are motorized wheelchairs and pedestrians.

I suppose given the nature of people, it is only reasonable to expect us to create subclasses within classes. Ie limos down to the new Indian cars. I'll bet that soon the Indian car plant will be running seven days a week 24hours a day trying to keep up. That is if the car is half good.

Why because there is a need, Where there is a need there well be a demand for them. Whenever there is a demand vacuum, there will be a supply created very soon.

I could have built two china bikes cheaper than the one much lower powered bike that I built. But then if it was about transportation to the next town, I could have bought a scooter, for twice what I have in the ebike (and I have a cheapo). From there you move up to some real money to get ride suitable for a couple of hundred miles.

I once rode a motorcycle on a five hundred mile trip. Since I'm no hardcore biker, it was pretty miserable. So for me it would be some kind of small car.

The point is, for me at least, the vehicle should fit the job. Its like hammers, I try not to use my three pound sledge to drive finish nails. Yes I could do that but it would probably make a mess of the molding.

BTW I had a lot to say about e-bikes even though my first motorized bikes were electric. Range and speed were my complaints just as they are today. But some things have changed in my situation to make me take this second look.

So why did I go E-bike this time after building so many gasoline bikes. Well I'm not allowed to drive a car more than a couple of miles anyway. If I said to my wife, "Honey I'm going to drive to the next town." There would Hades to pay. She wont let me drive the three miles to home depot. if she is around. By the way the rest of my town probably agrees with her. Nothing worse than an old man with his thought processes scrambled behind the wheel of two thousand pounds of lethal weapon in motion, to scare the heck out of reasonably intelligent people.

The good points to my e-bike. The E-bike plugs into the wall and is ready to go when I am. I have a second battery pack that I can always keep charged if should have to go right back out because I forgot something. I don't have to mix gasoline or even store gasoline. By the way I regularly ran out of gas in the China kit bike. There is no smell for my wife to complain about, unless i cross a wire. The bike runs quiet, so I enjoy the ride as part of the environment not just passing through it. For me the bike is not basic transportation it is just a fun ride.

So What would happen if it were basic transportation. How far exactly could I go on my own if I had to. About the distance I can go on a single battery pack. (if I had the right pack) six or seven miles round trip. Since I'm retired That is probably enough to do 99% of the things I need to do.

Now lets say I'm not retired. Now I am the Wally-Mart greeter. Say that job is fifteen miles from my home. For some reason I want to ride my bike. Why I would just ride it to the most convenient bus stop. It might be two miles to get to the express route, no transfers you know. Then I would put my bike in the bike rack, and off I would go to the point closest to my job. I would then take the bike off and happily ride to my place of employment. I expect that these days I could find a plug to shove my battery charger into. At quitting time I would just reverse the process.

Oh yes this would also work to make that ride to the airport or to the next town over. I wouldn't ride any motor bike more than fifteen miles personally my body wouldn't take it. Then again I'm not young and I don't build bikes for anyone else so there you go. The e-bike make sense for me. So lets not bash e-bikes in general guys. Even the cheapo bike has a use. Not to mention I get some decent exercise with this little bike. I would never pedal my old china bike kit bike. I wasn't forced to but I am forced to pedal this one about 30% of the time. It is only as if I were on a flat stretch of road even then. Of course I can pedal more if I want.

My 250 watt is about as powerful as a 25cc friction drive bike. My guess is the 500watt is like a 31cc and the 800 to a 1000 watt is about like a 49cc but that is just a guess.

Now if tomorrow someone invented a battery that weighed the same as what I run now, and would give me a fifty mile range, and was the same price, would I buy one? you betcha. If it became practical for pick up and drop off stations to spring up, that would be cool as well.

The e-bike is practical now, it can become even more so as e-car technology advances. There is little demand for better e-bike products now but that might change soon. The more attention the bikes get the better for their development. Just keep telling the story that this is probably the wave of the future.

 

[deacon]

Okay I admit sometimes the requirements of zen are too much for me. I couldn't stand laboring alone with just my own feelings of success. Unlike a zen master I needed someone else to say, "That is so cool."

I took the ebike with the hub motor down to the store. I bought some fuse holders at advance auto parts. Two bucks and change each for a thirty amp compatible glass fuse holder by the way.

I also stopped into a small grocery to buy some cookies for my peanut butter consumption. While there I asked the young female (of course) cashier if she had ever seen an electric bike. She hadn't so she came out to look and said, "That is so cool." And of course it is.

I rode the bike down there only because it got above 45 degrees early enough so that the traffic was light. I had to ride it up the biggest hill in the hood for the first time. I had planned to wait until sunday but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

I rode down the hill as a regular bike saving my battery and going only the speeds the bike could manage coasting with a little help.

I rode back pedaling and with the hub motor going. The 250watt hub motor made the big hill very doable even if it was a bit slow. It was about the same speed as i had gone downhill just coasting and pedaling a small amount. Uphill I pedaled constantly but I was seated the whole time and the effort was no more than a flat ground pedal on a regular bike.

That hill climbs for about five blocks and some of it is pretty steep, so i was very happy with the bike's performance. I got a little exercise and the bike got another test ride.

I still say it is about like a 25cc friction drive motor but much, much quieter. One day when the weather is nice enough I will have to test it with the battery trailer also attached.

Today when I got back with the battery conservation downhill ride the batteries were still fully charged. It was only about five blocks uphill that they got used.

A good test I think.

Next I have to test the new friction drive while doing a battery conservation mode. With friction drive I have always used it under almost constant battery power. I'm going to try to balance it out this time.

 

[deacon]

The pp&e bike got a face lift today. I had been threatening to do it and I finally did. I bought a kids 20" bike at the thrift store. I added a set of three inch extensions to the front fork so that it would accept the hub motor.

I raised the seat as far as it would go, not far enough, and I tilted the handlebars straight up so that my knees didn't hit them. I added a more comfortable seat so all I have to do now is get used to the pedal throw of this new bike.

The 250watt hub motor is on it and it's ready to go. I am going to have to save my pennies for a new battery set. One of the batteries from the scooter will not hold a charge. I guess I could read and maybe find a fix for it, but I will probably just buy a bigger set. They recommend a 20ah battery so I might go that way.
By the way the bike cost 12 bucks and took about five hours to customize and add the hub. Not to bad. Also the bike is cheap to customize so I'm pretty happy with it so far. I didn't get a change to ride it today but I will tomorrow.

 

[robin]

Beleive it or not my friend Andy and i were talking and we are going to use our gas engine for off road forestry roads ---thousands of miles 2miles up our valley---make a second electric bike for in town because gas is illegal---its only a matter of time before we get caught!! here they seize your bike and can keep it --may only release it with a court order---expensive and not worth the hassle!!
Have to save up now.
bf.

 

[deacon]

To be honest I loved my gas bikes and now I am beginning to think a lot better of this one. I had my doubts and still do about the range and lack of speed but then again "It is what it is" and that ain't so bad.

It is way, way too expensive for what it is though. Two hundred bucks for a 500watt hub motor kit is plenty. Probably over priced at that even.

 

[deacon]

I wanted to show you the new I hope improved pp&e hub bike. so here it is.

I took it for its first real world test ride today. The pedals are tight for me even with the seat up as far as it will go. The seat seems to be a little too far forward, but it's absolutely doable, especially since it is powered as well as pedal power. I rode it a couple of miles on the test track and it did just fine. I had full power when I returned so I'm pretty happy with it.

I am still going to buy the larger batteries I think. Since this it the configuration that tossed me on my butt, I wore my bike helmet. I probably will a few more times, then toss it since I can disguise the batteries. If you don't see the batteries it is almost impossible to know that it is a power bike.

I cut the ride short because I had forgotten to tie down the front of the batteries. I had them bolted down in the back but I forgot to add the front strap. I need some kind of rear view mirror.

ps. Im sure I look like a circus bear on this small bike lol

 

[deacon]

Okay I took the pp&e bike out again and ran it till the power drained. I was trying to get a reasonable range for it. I wanted to know what I could expect. So here is the strange and wonderful thing that happened.

I did about four miles on the battery pack when the light switched from full power to low power. The bikes performance dropped at about that time as well. I decided that I would head on home. I had about enough exercise for the first real day of riding the bike.

Most of the trip home was downhill. I ran the bike a little since the I already knew that when it got really low it would just shut down. It didn't of course I was probably a quarter mile from home when the yellow light came on.

The amazing thing was that during that downhill coasting and small amount of pedaling the light changed from amber to green. The bike was generating it's own power. Now that is really cool. I could probably have managed a half mile or more just bumping it and then pedal and coasting the rest of the way home.

My 250 watt bike is good for exercise while going somewhere in the hood. I can see that a 500 watt would do most of the hills around here without any pedaling at all. A thousand watt would most likely rival the china kit.

The bike I have rides really rough. It is about the lack of springs but if I were to start from scratch again. I think I would go with a full suspension and the front wheel hub.

I still might if I see one cheap enough to convert to my kind of bike. I could always make this one my friction drive.

 

[deacon]

Today I did a quick test with the pp&e hub bike with the trailer for additional batteries. The idea was to test the quick connector for the power supply and the additional strain on the motor.

I am happy to report that if there was any change in operating conditions, it had to be minor. I know there has to be some, it has to take some energy to pull the twenty pounds more, but it sure wasn't much. I pedaled about the same amount and picked up at about the same places. One thing the trailer is also a pusher factor when going down hill even the slightest decline.

I had the standard two 12ah battery pack on the bike, and the clone on the little trailer I built. It ran just fine. I did not do a range test since one of the second set of batteries are fit only for the garbage can.

My test was how it would pull and was the connection correct. On both accounts the answer is a resounding yes.

So now the battery packs are interchangeable on the rear luggage carrier of the bike, and it can also slide right on the trailer. It is a flexible enough system so that if I trail ride with a single set on the back of the bike. Then if I get home and decide to go to the store, I can switch out the packs on the bike and do the two mile ride to the store no problem.

However if I need to go six miles to the home depot, I can hook the trailer to a full charged bike pack and ride about eight to ten miles.

A bigger motor could pull a bigger battery supply trailer for even more range. It makes the bulky sla batteries more doable. To substitute a trailer for an on bike battery supply you would need springs on the trailer. I didn't realize how noisy a trailer is until I got ride of the gasoline engine noise.

As usual I had someone comment on the bike. He wanted to know if I built them for sale. When I explained what one would cost he decided it was probably a losing venture.

 

[Hawaii_Ed]

Cool builds! I held off from electric due to the cost, but would like to build one someday.

 

[deacon]

you might be able to tell by the number of times I have ridden my bike today that the weather is great. Seventy degrees and bright sunshine. I tested the trailer earlier. Now i just got back from a five mile ride down the bike trail with just the attached battery back.

There are two problems with my bike on the trail. I have no gears, and I'm a fat old man. I did want to work out some so I pedaled as much as possible. Either flat out pedal only power or just enough motor to help but not enough to disengage the freewheel. In general I do not think a throttle does much good on e friction bikes but on this hub motor to save battery consumption I am becoming a believer.

the long and short of it is I went over five miles with a green light on the power control when I got home. Either the motor is breaking in or I am able to control the power consumption.

Oh the five miles did kick my butt. I am going to rest then I will probably take it out again and ride it somewhere just to get some more time in on this gorgeous day. I still have some getting used to I need to do.

 

[deacon]

Mine is the cheapest possible hub build and it is underpowered but I did want some exercise and being forced is the only way I will pedal. I liken it to a 25cc weed whacker friction drive bike. Anyone who ever rode one can never forget the pedal requirements. If you go with a motor this small you NEED gears. I don't have any and get by but I need to pedal.

I think a pretty good compromise would be the 36v 600watt hub. I have never tried one but I think it would be like the 31cc friction drive. That one will pull most any hill be it goes very slowly up the really big ones. if you want any speed at all, you need to pedal but only on the really steep ones.

that 800 or 1000 48v should be about like the china bike, but it is going to be pulling some extra weight with those batteries. I wouldn't be surprised if a nice lightweight trailer wouldn't increase the performance of the bike. I'm sure someone knows more and will set me straight.

 

[deacon]

Even with a pp&e bike, that is much much more reliable than it's gasoline brothers, you still need a tool kit. One that has wrenches for the most common nuts and bolts on your bike. One to spring the axle nut if nothing else. Screw drivers ect.

So I have one of comfortable shoes tool pouches. Very handy little gadget but attaching it to the bike is the problem for me. If I wire it to the bike I probably won't have the tool to get it loose. What's a mudder to do.

I attached a super sized empty peanut butter jar to the bike frame with giant hose clamps. The pouch fits down inside and the screw on cap, which needs no tools to remove. I think this is going to work out pretty good. I will make a further comment when it falls off in traffic I'm sure.

 

[deacon]

I am still riding this bike carefully. I do not want to run out of power a long way from home. The bike trail yesterday helped my confidence in it some.

Today I rode it to the home depot which is about as far as I will ever want to go. I got there and back but I did notice something a little strange to me.

The bikes power level caution light came on after two miles but went right off again. I wonder if part of that isn't the battery being down about half way, and I have it wide open while also pulling a hill maybe the circuit is telling me to pedal.

Once I got over that hill I went back on e power and it was green light all the way to the store. I got it home with the bike still powering up some yellow and some green lights toward the end. The reading I think is not only the amount of battery power left, but also the rate of current draw enters into it. Adding some pedal torque seems to turn the light back to green.

It will be an interesting thing to keep track of for sure.

I did run the bike up bike killer hill after the yellow light was going off and on.It did okay. I had to pedal it, but not an unreasonable amount. It really is about the pulling power of a 25cc friction drive motor. I don't think it has quite the speed on the flat though. There is almost no bleed off speed with this bike. Yes there is a little but not like a friction drive bike. This one is more about steady power than the gas bike. Also I tend to let it coast downhill rather than power down. I try to recharge the battery if it will.

The round trip to the home depot was four miles and it didn't seem to run out of power so that seems to be doable on one battery set. I might put the trailer on later today after the battery pack charges and see how far I can get with it.

The second bit of good news is that the bike did not feel out of balance at all. I think this configuration is a good one.

 

[deacon]

I had to redo the seat post extension, For some reason it bent. I used a different on and now I hope it is going ot be okay but who knows. I will have to test it this afternoon to see what it does. If it breaks again I will just have to break down and buy one long enough. I hate to put a twenty dollar seat post on a ten dollar bike. that just goes against my grain.

If I build another of these small bikes and I plan to do that, I need something to use as a seat post. Something easy to find laying around. I wonder if a handlebar set is close to the right size. I'll just have to look around the shop.

 

[deacon]

Ah at peace with the bike, not lol.

I had to make my first repair to the propulsion system on the hubber bubber. The power cord has one of those three hole plugs on it. One pos one neg and one cold. You would think when the wires pulled off there would have at least been some solder left so I would know which to I needed to wire to. But NOOOOOOO.

I hooked up the charger and determined which pins were hot. then I soldered new wires to them. after that I put a sleeve on to protect them from stain so this wouldn't happen again. At that point I plugged them back into the charger to determine pos and negative wires and wired them to the battery pack connector accordingly. It worked to my surprise.

It was by far the weakest part of the pack but followed closely by every other componant wired to the controller. None of them have any support they just hang. I think after dinner I will try to do something to protect them from breakage.

 

[deacon]

I don't know if I told you or not but I'm really digging this bike now. I look forward to riding it every day now. It's fun to crawl around the hood checking things out. Now I have to find a destination for my joyrides. The weather has been great this week which reminds me that summer is ahead.

Okay here is a good question for advice.... What is a good destination to break up a morning ride. There are lots of things near my house so let me have your ideas. I have never been one for just relaxing so give me some advice please.