Tomos/AMF Roadmaster

[silverbear]

As I understand it moped stuff is supposed to go herein the tavern which is especially appropriate since it has been a long day and I sip a Lost Lake beer as I type. Since I live on the edge financially, yet have this bike building addiction to feed, I tend to look around at the stuff I have or can make and go from there. As it happens a number of things have come together which make this odd build something I'm getting excited about. The first photo shows where I am today and the rest are how I got here.

A year ago, inspired by MSRfan and his use of moped parts for his Briggs builds, I started looking around for a donor moped. I wanted forks and drum brake hubs.

Craigslist turned up a $45.00 AMF Roadmaster in Superior, Wisconsin. A hundred miles later I had my first moped, a sad little thing which had been sitting outside through summer rain and winter snow for some years. The seller knew nothing about it other than wanting it gone from his backyard.
The second photo shows what it would have looked like when it was being sold by Harley Davidson dealers back in the late 1970's. What a weird little bike, with heavy duty wheels and big drum brakes, an odd frame and a grossly under powered friction rear wheel drive powered by a McCullough chainsaw motor. It was capable of 15 mph. Why HD dealers were selling them I will never understand. It was the only Moped made in America and look at it... not exactly a Sachs or Pusch.

Bad as they were new, mine was a sad little orphan ready for the scrap pile. Once I studied it some I wondered if it was really worth $45.00. Ah well, you wins some and you lose some. The front fork didn't looks so good. Rims were rusty, but the hubs were in good shape and the brakes worked. I liked the brake levers... The motor was not original and was incomplete anyway. Not much to sell on ebay.

I thought about putting a China Girl motor on it and went so far as sitting one in the frame... fit right in, but still didn't ring any bells, so I cut up the wheels and have since used the hubs in other builds. I kept the frame thinking it might be good for something someday somehow... and now it has.
(cont.)
SB

 

[silverbear]

Later in the winter I found another moped donor which was missing some body parts and ran. but poorly, due I think to a dirty carburetor. Starts, but only on choke. But this one looked like something I could get a good front fork from and sell the other stuff. It cost $125.00 and turned out to be a good deal. It has an automatic 2 speed transmission, is 50cc with a reed valve carb and many after market parts are available including an upgrade kit to bump it up to 80ccs. I took it apart and thought about using the engine in frame in an old cruiser. That would require some frame modifications to make it work and the engine was a pedal start, so it was not a perfect match up for that idea.

Then I got to thinking about the little orphan moped and stuck the Tomos wheels on it. They fit fine and have good brakes. The driven sprocket and engine drive sprocket were already a match. The engine could hang below the frame if that odd little pedal bottom bracket on the bike was gone... which it soon was.

I cut the stock engine hanger off of the Tomos and figured it could be welded to the AMF frame while the expansion crack in the frame was being repaired.

Yes, the frame has an ice expansion break in it. I'm guessing that water got in through the goose neck, filled up the frame and when it got to 40 below zero the resulting ice burst the frame open. Ice has tremendous power to wreck things as it expands, so this says nothing about the strength or weakness of the metal in the frame. It will get cleaned up, pounded down, ground some to accept a weld and be as good as new again.

Still, I didn't feel much desire to work on it, so the moped sat and so did the engine. I don't much like those kind of "snowflake" wheels and overall just didn't much like the project. I liked the idea and thought it would be fun to ride, but it didn't look right. I figured maybe I'd put it together sometime to sell to a girl or short person, maybe. Couldn't much picture the silver circus bear sitting there. More neglect for the little orphan moped... poor thing, (sniff)...
(cont.)
SB
SB

 

[silverbear]

It is interesting how things come together sometimes. A week ago Fasteddy, Curtis Fox and I went to Hutchinson, MN. to pick up two Sachs engines for our Indian tri-car builds and to meet the seller, a guy named Dave who is a world class restorer of antique engines, Whizzers, Cushmans, etc. Dave is getting old and cutting back on his shop work. Actually all four of us are going to be cutting back on building projects. Too many things lined up, too many parts accumulated and too little time and energy to get them all done. So Dave was giving some things away. He gave me a nice old Wanderer gas tank from a German motorcycle, a headlight from another one and had a pile of stuff outside to go to the scrap man including some wheels and fenders. I got some moped type wheels and a fender I thought I could use on my sidecar for the Indian. Curtis got a couple wheels and fenders for his projects.

Later on, back home I was looking through the wheels and saw that one was a Sachs hub with engine driven sprocket... 18" rim (sounds small, but remember that moped wheels are measured differently than bicycle wheels in the USA. That wheel would be more like a 24" bicycle wheel) with thick spokes and a stout rim. For the heck of it I wanted to see if it would fit on the little orphan moped. With no air in the tire it will go on and if the tire held air (which it doesn't) the wheel will fit fine. Sat it up nice. I put another wheel from Dave up front, a little bit bigger 24" bicycle coaster brake wheel and suddenly the little moped was looking a good bit better. Like it grew up some.

The other thing pointing toward pursuing this build was that Fasteddy picked up a Hobart welder so that we could do up the new sidecar frames and engine mounts for our Indians... so a welder would be available to join the Tomos hanger to the AMF frame and also repair the ice crack. I had figured a welder would charge a fair amount for that work, which did not fit into my budget since the Indian is getting what little money resource I have. Now new possibilities were emerging since Steve can be paid in peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with a can of Lost Lake beer. Doesn't take much to make him happy.

So far this build has very little money in it. Of the $45.00 I spent for the AMF I figure I got my money back with the drum brake hubs. From the Tomos I am using the front fork on a 1934 three speed Elgin project (on hold due to finances) and will sell the snowflake rims and tires on ebay which should bring me at least $50.00 and the front suspension for was worth at least $25.00. So that brings the cost of the Tomos/AMF Roadmaster project to $50.00 so far. I am not putting any more money in it at this time, just using what I have available to me. New tires and tubes can come when everything else is done.

Next up is to change that front fork and give it a respectable headlight which should help to make it look better yet.
(cont.)
SB

 

[rustycase]

Wonderful tale, SB !
and the pics are great, too.

Glad ur havin fun creating something nice from salvaged goods.

I enjoyed reading this chapter very much.
rc


I gathered 3 vertical shaft briggs mowers this last week. Must figger how to convert them to horizontal use...

 

[silverbear]

I had a heck of a time getting the rusty front fork off the AMF. Finally I resorted to cutting it off with the side grinder and a cutoff wheel. I had an extra Suzuki oil filled suspension fork I bought last winter for $38.00 and which is by far the best fork I've ever used. With shipping, say it cost $55.00, so now the bike has $105.00 in it. The headlight cost $12.00 from Harbor Freight and has to be one of the best buys of anything they sell. Good chrome and just plain good looking. On a lot of bikes it would look huge, but tucked into the ears of that Suzuki fork it is just right to my eye. In another thread I'll do a how to on transforming their dune buggy light into a headlight for your bike.

So this is where things are today. If the rain holds off I intend to bolt the engine to the engine hanger, attach the bi-turbo tuned exhaust pipe to the engine and prop up the engine with blocks of wood to mock up the fitting to the AMF. Then when the welder is done doing more important things we can get this engine mounted. I left all the wiring and controls intact hanging off the engine in hopes that I can get it all back together again. It will have turn signals, brake and tail light, horn, switches, throttle, brake levers from the Tomos. Now our cost on the build comes to roughly $117.00 including the headlight.

I'm changing the seat to something more comfortable today and intend to make a passenger seat on that rear rack... hopefully using the Tomos seat for that. Can't wait now to see what it looks like with the motor in place. With all the open step through space it will be easy to mount even when I get really old. This is gonna be a fun bike.
(to be continued)
SB

 

[Mannhouse51]

Wow...that brought back some memories. My dad bought a new moped in 1976 , an amf roadmaster. He rode it to work for a couple of years and then parked it in the back barn. When I turned 15 and got my moped license , he gave it to me. My first moped ! I was so proud of that orange and red hot rod. Man was she fast.I bet she did 18 mph down hill .

 

[silverbear]

I'm glad you guys are enjoying the thread. I'm having a good time seeing it come together.

While Steve was busy welding up the sidecar frame today in between rain showers, I put a more comfortable seat on the orphan which I think will go OK with the Tomos passenger seat behind it. If I remember right that Tomos seat flips up and has a storage compartment inside. That would be handy for a few tools or a large roll of hundred dollar bills.

I got the engine more or less in place so that we could see how the fit will be and how best to join the engine hanger to the frame. When the sidecar frame is together we'll get this mounted so that I can paint the frame, put it basically together and then set it aside for a winter project.

The wheel in back is 19" and not 18" so is very close in size to a 24" bicycle tire. I tried finding a tire online to fit it with no luck so far, so posted a wish for one on the Moped Army site. A couple other options would be a HD 24" wheel which will translate to some bucks. 26" is actually cheaper and easier to come by, but 26 won't fit in back. Plenty of height, but not enough room in the frame to the front of the rear wheel. I recall someone using dropout extensions they bought somewhere, but I didn't pay much attention at the time and now have no idea where that thread is. If I could use that hardware then I could go with 26" rims, lace up my own and have nice wheels reasonably priced. It would also stretch the frame out a little more and improve handling. At the moment it is not a problem. Between now and winter another moped donor may appear with good 18" wheels and tires. At least I know what to look for.

I think the frame will be black to go with the forks, engine black and gas tank cream with black pin stripes, maybe. Maybe have "ORPHAN" on it in script. Ha! If I use the rear wheel that is on it then the rims will also be painted since the chrome is badly pitted and chipped even though the wheel is in good shape. I'd paint them cream, too.

Although a 2 stroke, it has an automatic oiler for the 2 stroke oil, so I'll need to make up a little oiler canister probably fitted against the back of the seat tube. The automatic oiler is convenient since you can pull in to a gas station and not have to mix oil when you 'fillerup'.

As I understand it when you want to shift from low to the higher gear you just wind it out a bit and let off the gas and then throttle up and you're in high now. That'll be nice.
(to be continued)
SB

 

[silverbear]

Forgot the update photos...
SB

 

[timboellner]

Looks like you really have your hands full.
Seems like you have the knack of getting hold of some really cool unique
old bikes. I love the moped and can't wait to see what becomes of that Sachs engine on the other build.
I'm willing to bet that you put together bikes in your minds eye
about half of your waking hours. You are the man.!
Build on brother!
TiM

 

[silverbear]

Hey Tim,
I heard from my daughter in Baltimore how hot it has been out your way this summer. I imagine business has been good and kept you hopping. Hopefully with cooler weather you can make it out to Thurmont in mid October for the 'Colorfest' weekend. We can find a place to put you up where I care take up the mountain if you want or just make it a day trip. Tinsmith lives just twenty minutes down the road and I'll be there by then riding either this orphan bike or the Indian. The copper sheet you gave me is going to become the Indian Hiawatha's coffin shaped gas tank this winter with a lot of help from Tinsmith. Tanks, man!
Yes, one advantage of having limited funds is that it makes you get creative with what you can find or make. One thing's for sure. If I come out of a store and look around for my ride I won't have any trouble knowing which bike is mine. Ha! Hope to see you this fall.
SB

 

[silverbear]

Made some more progress on the Orphan yesterday. I've been looking around for a heavy duty 24" wheel for the front end. Husky has one with a drum brake for $120.00 before shipping. I guess that is a fair price, but I don't have the doremi so it doesn't matter if it's fair or not.

I got to looking at the old heavy duty wheel I've had sitting on the front in the photos posted. It has stout spokes (11 gauge) and the skip tooth coaster brake was an Eclipse made in Elmira, New York probably before WWII. Not all coaster brakes are the same, I assure you. When I took it apart I was impressed with the size of the ball bearings and the brass parts inside. Wow. Anyway, for the heck of it I shot all the nipples with PB blaster and a day later managed to get all of the spokes free from the nipples ( pretty good for a 75 year old wheel). Some needed straightening out in the vice, but were serviceable and using a different spoke pattern I was able to lace a French Atom drum brake hub into it, which I believe came from a Jawa light motorcycle and which I got from Sportscarpat's brother last winter.

I got the wheel trued up using an old girl's bike turned upside down as a makeshift truing stand and because the chrome was badly chipped and mostly no longer there I put the rim to the wire wheel prior to lacing. Once all together I used etch primer followed with regular primer and then cream colored enamel paint. Looks pretty good for a beat up old wheel.

Today I'll paint the rear rim to match. I've been searching for a tire for it and discovered that the 19 X 2.25 rear wheel uses a motorcycle tire. Not many are available in that size, but I found one with an OK tread pattern in a 2.50 width and several in 2.75. I'll just mount the old tire back on it it for now and when money is more forthcoming will order something for it this coming winter. Up front I'm just using a 24 X 2.125 bicycle tire and in the winter will order something better and a little fatter. I want good rubber under me and no flats. So, both wheels have good drum brakes and good rims. Keep in mind that the rims are measured differently from each other so that in the end they are very nearly the same size. With deflection in the front fork with me on the bike it will sit pretty well level. What great luck in having those old rims coming to me instead of going to scrap. Thanks again to Dave the motor man.

I've also started stripping down the frame in preparation for primer and welding up of the engine mount. By this time next week I imagine the mount will be welded in place, the frame painted and engine mounted. In between I'm also working on the Indian Hiawatha as Fasteddy finishes up the sidecar frame and starts on a new frame for his Indian Camelback using the frame from a 1939 Hiawatha girl's bike, much modified.

Our sprockets and Steve's hub adapter came today from Jim at Creative engineering. As soon as Steve's wheel comes rom Bikeworld USA I'll take the cheapie hub out and relace it with a nice Bendix coaster brake hub. His wheel has 12 gauge spokes and a good stout rim even if the chrome is poor. His rim will be painted anyway. Fun seeing stuff come together.
SB

 

[motorbiker]

Love the way you throw parts together !

 

[harry76]

This is going to be a nice one Silverbear, its got a nice stance to it, and should be very comfy to ride. Keep the pics coming

 

[silverbear]

Thanks, guys.
Each time I give this build the "creative stare" I like it all the more. I feel like I stumbled onto something good with this odd little moped frame that keeps changing before my eyes. There's so little to it. The Suzuki front fork weighs more than the whole frame.

I like it well enough that I've decided to use another just like it for an eventual trike. I found a cheap frame on ebay for twenty bucks which the seller has agreed to hold for me until I can pick it up in person on my way to Maryland this fall. That saves me the $45.00 it would have cost in shipping. He's throwing in the oddball seat post for another five bucks. I asked about the gas tank, but that's the first thing that sold on the bike and went for $45.00.

So now I have another frame, or will have. I still have one last Suzuki front fork and will use it on this eventual trike. I'm also negotiating for a mystery moped an acquaintance has in the back of her garage. Her son bought it at a yard sale some years back with the intention of fixing it, but nothing has been done with it. She has seen a couple of my builds and when I mentioned them having moped front forks, she mentioned the moped I think she would like to see gone. I haven't seen it yet, but she sent me a couple of photos from her cell phone. I didn't recognize it and the engine cylinder looked odd to me, so I posted the photos on the Moped Army site asking for I.D. help.

It was recognized right away as a Columbia Commuter sold through Montgomery Wards as their "Open Road" and came in two models. One had a bicycle type seat, a pressed frame and an air cooled German Sachs engine. The other was much less common and more expensive. It had a longer motorcycle type of seat, a tubular frame and another German engine of great interest to me. It is a Solo and is a water cooled 47CC 2 stroke.

I have learned since that the frame is poorly welded and usually breaks where the engine mount is welded to the tubular frame. The engine is said to be reliable and has a lot of grunt. One speed, which would be fine for a trike since I would be keeping the speed down with it anyway.

I'm hoping to pick up the Columbia for less than a hundred dollars and would be able to use the 17" wire wheels, engine, handlebar, lights, controls, etc. I think I can keep this build to around two hundred fifty dollars. I'll try to get a title for it, too.Curtis Fox is donating a rear differential type of axle and Fasteddy is figuring out how to modify it so that it can be used on a trike.

Anyway, I think mopeds can yield some great parts and the little AMF frame is asking for a custom build. I think you can end up with a lot of bike for a little money by going this route.

I think I'm approaching the end on bike builds and in another year or so will probably be pretty well done with mopeds, too. I'll keep the Indian Hiawatha and the two AMFs if they work out as I think they will. My other stuff I'll sell off next summer to finance the next stage in regressive behavior. I want to build a pontoon boat I can live on in the summers on one of the bigger lakes up here, living like Huck Finn with my wonder dog Aaniimoosh, fishing, swimming and lolling about... 28 feet long with a 13 foot Scamp 'glass egg' travel trailer as cabin, a Grumman sail up front and powered by a pair of ancient Evinrude ten horse motors with the power coming from air cooled 4 stroke HF 5.5 hsp Vertical shaft engines atop the Evinrude lower units. I can keep a bike aboard for trips to town. I can see it all in me head, I can. Still dreamin'. Right now I've got bikes to build.

I got the orphan's frame stripped of paint, primed and ready for welding. The gas tank has also been stripped and is ready for some 'body work' filling dents and making it ready for paint. More pictures later.

I know I've been rambling some, but this is the forum after all...
SB

 

[deacon]

I am in awe of all you do.

 

[silverbear]

Deacon,
Thank you for your very kind words. It means a lot coming from you. Hope your mending of bones is progressing. My best wishes are coming your way.
SB.

 

[silverbear]

In between other work on the Indians I made some progress on the Orphan moped. I finished stripping the bike frame and pounded out the ice expansion crack, painted it with etch primer, sealer primer and then a nice gloss black paint made for tractors. Good stuff which covers very well and is not prone to runs. I'll look up the name of it tomorrow. It costs about half what Dupli-color costs.

The front wheel is painted and laced up with a moped hub. Right dropout on the Suzuki fork is opened up into a slot so that a wheel can be mountedeasily. I need a longer axle for the wider than normal Suzuki fork and have a line on getting one made for it. It's an oddball, being a French Atom drum brake hub. Neither tire has a tube and both are cracked, but at least I can tell what the bike looks like in terms of paint, color scheme, etc. New tires and tubes will come when greenery appears on the money tree.

I started on the gas tank repair. It has some serious dents. I did a little banging on it with a ball peen hammer to knock down a couple of high spots, but mostly it needs depressions filled with epoxy. I use JB weld as body putty for fenders and such where you don't need a whole lot. It cures to a very hard filler and is not at all porous, so makes for a nice finish. I use an old library card (like a credit card) to spread the epoxy and smooth it out. It is best to go with fairly light coats, even with deeper dents. When it is cured overnight then I use a palm type of sander to smooth it out and it becomes very clear where there are still depressions. So you do it again. And then you do it again until there are no more depressions and you have a smooth surface ready for paint.

I also added a bar deal from a dump seat onto the back of the comfy Schwinn seat I have on there. I've decided that the passenger seat would be too big using the seat from the Tomos, so will make a seat base out of thick aluminum plate to bolt down onto the rear rack. The seat needs to be longer than the rack is, but not much wider. I can give it foam for cushioning and cover it in either leather or naugahyde, which may not happen until winter.

In the background of one of the photos Fasteddy is making engine mounts for our Indians. When those are done and the Sachs engines are mounted then he will weld up the Tomos engine hanger to the Orphan. I know that painting it now seems like putting the horse before the cart, but I wanted to see what it will look like and have a sense of moving forward. The weld spots will get stripped of paint and (big deal) sprayed again. Hopefully in a couple of weeks the engine will be in place and I can sort out the controls, wiring and such.

No news on the Columbia moped with the Solo engine, but it looks like that will probably happen with the swap of a 2 stroke China girl bike for the Coumbia. Maybe not a good deal in some ways, but nobody is buying anything this summer so a trade may be the best I can do. I think I'm done with china girls. I would like to get that German Solo engine and can sell much of the rest of the Columbia on ebay.

Might not be another post for a time as I need to work on the Indian now which is the real project this summer. Steve's Indian has made some progress which I'll try to post for tomorrow on the Indian Tadpole thread. Pretty soon I'll start a thread on my Indian Hiawatha.
SB

 

[James912]

Jam up good job Silver Bear! That bike was dying bike and your bring it back to life to the fullest!

 

[motorbiker]

Lookin good !

That is a very rare if not the only custom build with an AMF Roadmaster of this type !

WOW ! ! !

 

[silverbear]

Thank you,Guys. I'm glad you like the bike. No real progress on this one. All I'm doing on it is continuing the gas tank workwhich now is taking very little actual work time. Mostly it is waiting time... for the epoxy to harden so that it can be sanded down. Then another light coat where needed. Still needs a couple more coats of epoxy in one or two places, then it will be ready for paint. Speaking of which, this is now my favorite paint. It comes in limited colors, but it covers really well and doesn't tend to run easily. Plus, it costs about half of what I used to pay for dupli color. This is better paint in my opinion. I'll be using their cream color for the tank. Not much closer to getting the welding done on it as the Indians are getting all the welding attention, then the sidecar frame awaits completion and last in line is the Orphan.
SB