The worst ripoff guy on the PLANET

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Lodsta, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Lodsta

    Lodsta New Member

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    Sad to say he comes from my country.

    The guys name is Paul Kopel. He says he has a company called Eurotech but I'm not sure about that. I think he only sells on the web, xtreme scooters and eBay. (Of course he has a pathetic eBay rating).

    First of all he never has what he says he is selling (this should serve as a strong clue) but when he does get the product its junker stuff.just avoid the guy0 the real laffer is the stupid bloke has prices that are really, really high it'd be funny if he werent ripping people off
     
  2. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    The only real surprise is more Aussies aren't howling about this jerk. Maybe he is just small potatoes or people already know to stay away from him. I really try hard in my life not to say bad things about anyone, but this guy is a con artist. There is no other way to put it. As a supplier and sponsor, we certainly need to be careful about the things we write. We would NEVER whine about a competitor and legitimate MB supplier.

    This guy approached us early on and we almost entered a business arrangement with him. We never even got to the formalizing agreement. He bought one kit from us - next thing we know our customers are complaining to us that pictures of their bikes with Shifter Kits are on eBay! For some crazy price. I had enough that quick and pulled the plug. His response? "I can do anything I want"

    He seems to have no technical ability and claims he has a crew. I'm not sure about many of his claims.

    It also looks like he is trying to have our product(s) knocked off in China.

    He had an encounter with Creative Engineering (the clutch kit folks) as well. I think you are wise to let others know, IMHO.
     
  3. jasonh

    jasonh New Member

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    Ouch Pablo, that sucks.

    What the heck is up with people? I just don't get it.
     
  4. Creative Engineering

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    Ah Yes,

    Paul Kopel...The blunder from down under. He's one strange character.

    I would never throw a competitor under the bus either but this guy is making a mockery of everyone else who is offering bike engine kits and parts.

    He ordered 5 clutch kits...while he was waiting for them to ship he made a replica of my ebay listing, using my photos and text with a price of $110.00 if I remember right.

    I called him and asked what the heck he thought he was doing...he said "I can do anything I want". Yeah so can I! I'm not shipping you anything. He freaked out and said some crazy non-sense about an international lawsuit. I told him "Let me know how that works out for Ya! He's so stupid all you can do is laugh at him.

    Anyway, I would imagine he probably did have someone else buy a clutch kit on his behalf. I don't really worry about him having the wits to do anything with it...BUT if the Chinese engine factories get it, it'll be all over for me with this product. I had figured that ultimately it was going to happen anyway. Just not this soon.

    Maybe he'll slither back under the rock he came from...and we won't hear anymore from him.

    Jim
     
  5. ebmvegan

    ebmvegan New Member

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    Pablo and Jim,
    Take it as a compliment. He's trying to make a prifit from your hard work. Although it sucks, word will spread. He may have the product coming in from China, but as we all know, customer service and quality of product holds true above all else in our hobby and in that order. Many come here for advice sooner or later ad we'll make sure everyone is aware of him.
     
  6. jasonh

    jasonh New Member

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    I personally wouldn't take it as a compliment, ebm. That's incredibly shady and pathetic. They have every right to be upset.

    I'd be pretty ticked if I put lots of hard work, time, and money into developing a product only to have someone a) buy them from me and resell them at a higher price without my knowledge/permission, and b) have them buy one and supposedly send it to China to have them make knockoffs.
     
  7. ebmvegan

    ebmvegan New Member

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    You're right....I would be livid. Although I can not speak for everyone, but I have developed some products for the club wear. They were mini back packs that had LED lights that would light to the beat of the music that was playing. It felt great to know that I developed them and my wife wore a different one everytime we went out. Someone ended up seeing them, then they copied, then sold them to others. I was livid at first. Then I realized as Jim had said that it was only a matter of time until someone would copy and profit from my hard work. I sat back and thought of how much enjoyment I had with developing the back pak and how much I enjoy seeing my wife and friends wearing the back packs. Someone in China is now manufacturing them for a company based in New York that is owned by a guy who saw them on my wife and had talked to me about it. I purchased one of his back packs and found that my product was better in quality. I am selling them now and although his back pack are cheaper, I can customize mine for each induvidual. I'm no Versache or Prada, but I am proud of what I have done and have actually been kind of thankful that my idea was stolen. Otherwise my merchandise would not have had the exposure. I can not patent my products but Jim and Pablo certainly could.
     
  8. ebmvegan

    ebmvegan New Member

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    Theft of any kind is pathetic, but what I did was out of enjoyment. Yes it sucks that someone stole my idea, but it was fun developing and seeing my pruducts out. That can not be stolen. Anyway, I'm ahead of the theif. I created it, all he can do is take it.
     
  9. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    That is the problem with the world economy some countries don't observe anyone else's patents or copyrights. You might see anything you do turn up on the front page with a Chinese manufacturer. It's sad but a fact of business life these days.

    Lots of companies tried to do business with the Chinese only to find their technology stolen. Or at least that is what the word going around is.

    I'm sure they have good engineers but man they sure borrow a lot of technology im told.
     
  10. thatsdax

    thatsdax Member

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    Hi.. I think I saw that post on Ebay as well of the shifter kit. Who owns the Copyrights to this gas engine Shifter kit? Does anyone know? I have seen a similar shifter kit used with electric motors behind the seat post. But used with the 2 stroke gas engine is a clever adaption of this Free Wheel kit. So.. Who owns the copyright for the Gas Engine version? Does anyone know?
     
  11. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    dax - do you mean copyright or patent? As far as I know there are some patents on jackshaft assemblies and the like and there is a Taiwan patent on some motorized bike with jackshaft set-up, but it is much different from ours. Our pictures and writing are our intellectual property and cannot be stolen without violating copyright laws.
     
  12. thatsdax

    thatsdax Member

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    Yes.. You got it.. A US Copyright on the Shifter kit for the 2 stroke motors which I believe you sell them. Do you have the US Copyright for this Application? Do you know who does?
     
  13. Creative Engineering

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    EBM,

    It's great that you were able to maintan your niche even though your product was copied. With mechanical things it rarely happens. If a mechanical product works and it's cheaper...sold! Harbor freight is a great example. Poor quality...dirt cheap prices. You can literally buy and break 5 of thier tools to the cost of one made in the U.S. The trend is consumer driven and the Chinese know how to saturate a market. I'm as guilty as the next guy...I'll buy things from Harbor Freight that I rarely use simply because I coudn't justify the cost of a quality piece.

    There's only one problem with a patent!

    It's only as good as your ability to protect it. (I may be wrong about this, and I know at least one attorney is a member of the forum...the guy with the cool bike?). It is not a federal crime to infringe on someone's patent. You have to fight it yourself, (BIG $$$). It takes time...By the time you win your case, the market has been flooded with the Knock-off product, and the perpetrator is long gone!

    The F.B.I. wil investigate cases of bootleg items such as movie DVD's, music CD's,...etc. I think Hong Kong and the boys even tried copying Levis. It ended real quick! It's fraud if the knock-off is made to represent the original, thereby leaving the consumer with the assumption that they are supporting thier favorite artist, or brand name. It then becomes a matter for law enforcement. With patent stuff...you're on your own.

    I've been down this road many times, both myself and with customers. The internet and globalization have made the exchange of information nearly instantaneous. This can be highly advantageous as well as detrimental. It's all a matter of "how" it's used, and unfortunately the technology is used by shady characters.

    There is one recourse, a cease and decist order. This would prevent the product from entering the U.S. through customs pending further investigation.

    This offers some relief on high volume, manufactured, items aimed at the U.S. market.

    My clutch assembly is such a simple "fix" that I have no doubt these engines are going to be coming out of China with the stiff clutch problem remedied. I give it 6 months, tops, before every factory has incorporated it. I didn't do it to get rich...My design/shop customers keep me well paid. I had to repair the original customers' bike. I spent hours checking geometry prior to making the parts. All of the hard work had been done, so I figured as long as I was going to run the CNC, I might as well make some extras to sell. When he picked up his bike he asked, "how much do I owe you", and I said "I created a product from the repair of your bike"...No charge.

    Oh boy, another long winded post!:D

    Jim
     
    #13 Creative Engineering, Nov 17, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  14. HT2005

    HT2005 Member

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    There are many people in the world who think that intellectual property rights is bull&h!t. If they see something that is simple to produce and can wield large profits, they will copy it and mass produce it. The good thing about this is that the price comes down and there is plenty of supply to meet demand.
    Take the chinese engine kits for example. Some factories in china produce the engine kits even though they didn't think up the engine design. They copied and improved upon somebody else's design (although some not so much improvement, but you get the idea). In the past three years since I bought my chinese engine kit on ebay for $250, the price has dropped more than 40% on average to about $140 shipped.
    In the end, it does more good than bad. Although it might sound harsh for the first guy, it's how the free market works.
     
  15. Weedylot

    Weedylot Angry Old Fart

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    I agree with Deacon and Jim brings up some important points.
    I've developed some unique and laborsaving tools and techniques, specialized for my profession. I'm in a very small and respected niche in a cutthroat industry. So I trust no one.
    After consulting with some experienced business owners I've decided to never franchise or try to patent any product or process. I'm just asking for it.
    BTW my attitude toward China? Melamine killed my dog after a big chunk in vet bills. A little later the first dog food, the one we fed our dogs, was recalled. Now the stuff is in BABY food?



    I'm still hating the Chinese government.
    I love China and her people.
     
  16. thatsdax

    thatsdax Member

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    When it comes to Copyrights or Patents, if anyone in the USA is infringing upon my copyrights or my Patents, I can guarantee you, you will have have a court order to cease and Desist. And if that person or company continues and violates the order, they will be arrested. Period.. I can guarantee it. I will not infringe on anyone's Patent or Copyright. Not knowingly anyway. When it comes to Copyrights and Patents here in USA, it is a big deal. Very big. It is Fundamental and a right to defend your ideas with copyrights and or Patents. Go and see the Movie, " A Flash of Genius" and you will get the idea of what it is about. You will see what a big deal Patents and Copyrights are here in USA. This is a true story and The Inventor was awarded millions . Millions.. All true...

    Now.With that said.. It would be harder to get those outside the USA. But it too can be done. It is a matter of cost. And if you have a product where 100's or 1000's or even millions could be involved, then going after those outside the USA may be worth it. But.. Here inside the USA.. Not a problem.. A phone call, a few hundred dollars, and Wham !! Cease and Desist order issued. And if they do it again.. Wham.. Jail time for violating court orders. And then the word gets out.. And it stops.. And it will stop.. The Copyright and Patent lawyers make sure of it. IF they did not make sure of it, these government offices would be out of business.. And ..You know the US Government.. They do not like going out of business..Not at all.... Enjoy the ride...
     
    #16 thatsdax, Nov 17, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  17. HT2005

    HT2005 Member

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    I was talking about the relevance of China in all of this. The reason why the chinese make so many counterfeits is because of cheap labor and promises of large profits in the world market. They can easily do this because the chinese government is VERY corrupt and it can't expand fast enough to regulate and enforce the laws on every chinese business; too many businesses sprang up too quickly to all be regulated. Now, the reason for the dangerous food and chinese products in general is because of slim profit margins for the bottom contractor after the subcontracting scheme. They need to cut corners anywhere possible, although this is VERY unethical and illegal(and would not be tolerated in America if done by American companies). I'm sorry about the loss of your dog Weedylot.
     
  18. spad4me

    spad4me New Member

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    This is the first post of a shifter kit. It is from Au. Not the US. Dated 03-04-2008, 01:02 AM
    Ghost 0 is the third poster on the thread.
    Search for "Nice Jackshaft Idea" by Moteredhobart on another channel.
    Here is the original idea in finished form.
    ZBox engine innovations 2008

    From zbox site
    Warren,
    Just got back and I've had a quick peek at the page and it looks good, hope it grows some more . I've attached a couple of pic's of the components for the counter shaft and freewheel chaingear. All of these pieces I machined up in my workshop. There a couple of differences between what is in the pictures and what actually went on the final installation but the concept is the same. The main ones are the original 20T sprocket which was made from the outer of a DICTA freewheel was replaced with a 21T all home manufactured sprocket to allow for correct chain adjustment. The crank assembly pictured was ok until I upped the compression, then kicking it over - the threaded part stripped (forgot to loctite it !!) so it went into the scrap bin, the freewheel portion of the assembly is made from a DICTA 14T BMX freewheel sprocket with the teeth machined off. The thread in these is 30mm x 1.0 pitch and as the crank is alloy it definitely needs to be loctited in position. The outer ring in the picture is a lot larger than the final one, this is a press fit on the freewheel component sandwiching the chain wheel (suitably bored out to a neat fit on the freewheel). The chain wheel is then welded to the ring (you could use small through bolts which could also hold the rear kit gear sprocket) to form the complete assembly. I did also tap a thread down through the retaining ring and put a small ball bearing and a grub screw in there to assure that the crank assembly doesn't slip on the freewheel. Feel free to edit this if you think it needs it, as it is a bit long winded.

    Cheers Greg.


    It even has pictures.

    LOOK at the bottom of the page.
     
    #18 spad4me, Nov 17, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  19. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Sure we are aware of that setup. It certainly has some similarities. And some important differences. We were done with our basic design we we saw that. But "Shifter Kit" is our name.
     
  20. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Prior to us were other jackshaft designs as well. We could never claim to be the first to use a jackshaft, gears and chains, etc to drive the right side chain ring. Anyway here's an early, fairly sophisticated version from Taiwan:
     

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