Hi, All
Pat, I do think you are on the right track, and smart to be planning in the ability to 'go bigger'.
As far as the 'gas cap' issue, I respectfully disagree with the other posters. Yes, of course the 'cap' with an O-ring will keep water out while riding...but I stand by my recommendation to put the charging port anywhere but facing up.
It's a bit like saying NOBODY has EVER had water get into their gas tank with the cap on the top...obviously not true...but with liquid fuel you have no choice, and water in the gas is just an inconvenience, not a potential life threatening hazard!
If you think I am exaggerating, understand the difference between AC and DC electrical shocks to humans...AC being alternating, will shock you, then make you let go when the current reverses...DC will not. It is almost impossible to let go while being shocked with DC...and YES, 72V is enough to treat with great respect.
This is not just me being 'anal', this is standard industrial and electrical design process...to NEVER let water and electricity meet! You have to think of bizarre, worst case scenarios...plugged in, charging, inside the shed...roof starts to leak...water drips onto charging wire and runs down it...if the port faces UP, water may run straight into it...if it is on the side or bottom, the sag in the wire will probably act as a drip loop, preventing the water from entering the socket.
And, it is not just water...any small metallic object can fall straight into a battery port facing up, but is WAY less likely to do so if the port faces sideways or downwards. A small screw dropping into the charging port and shorting out your battery, could really ruin your day in a hurry.
Why do you think you NEVER see standard electrical outlets facing up, like, say, on your kitchen counter top?? Same reasons.
You are also correct Pat, that it will cost more to replicate 200CC (or ANY cc) performance with electric than it will with internal combustion. Yup, that's the way it is, for now at least, with ALL EVs.
Yes, 72V components clearly cost more than lower voltages, but IMO it isn't just the 'Holy Grail' of electric bikes, as one poster put it. It is the 'sweet spot'. Serious performance starts BEYOND 72V, but that is where the costs really start to go up. Costs are incremental up to 72V, and exponential beyond that. I also have spent a lot of time on 'Endless Sphere', and it is a fantastic resource. I have learned from experience though, that probably the majority of people there are using a regular pedal bike (or 500 watt e-bike) as their frame of reference when it comes to performance...comments like 'ridiculous torque', 'endless buckets of power', and 'tidal surge of acceleration' are used to describe machines that most motorcyclists would find completely underpowered and lame. All I can say, is read a bunch of reviews about the Stealth Bomber, then go and ride one. Not slamming the machine at all, but it is frequently referenced as the 'gold standard' of e-bikes, and personally, I was quite underwhelmed. To me, as a lifelong motorcyclist, e-bikes start to "feel like a small motorcycle" somewhere around 8000W and up. Again, to me, that is the rough threshold of the difference between 'it goes' and 'it's fun'. Your mileage may vary. Lighter weight folk may feel differently.
I mention the above in particular, because you (Pat) said you never visualized this machine as a 'pedal assist', but rather an alternative to a small displacement motorcycle.
Of course drastically reduced maintenance and fuel costs will only go so far...and only start to make up the cost difference when there will be a lot of mileage involved.
BUT, as you also pointed out, there are also HUGE advantages in terms of stealth, accessibility, reduced noise, zero emissions, reduced insurance and registration costs, and more. These advantages are not just 'environmental' or theoretical.
Where I live, it is a hilly area surrounded by acreages, forested areas, and lots and lots of bike paths. I am not in the middle of a big city, but it is just 'urbanized' enough that there is nowhere at all within an hours drive where I could operate ANY gas powered bike off-road, except possibly in my own backyard.
With my electric bike, I can go anywhere a bicycle can go...which is pretty much anywhere at all. The bike paths, the local skate / BMX park, all the roads, etc, etc. No registration costs. No insurance costs (although I am still looking into options with that), basically no maintenance beyond basic bicycle stuff, and about $0.20 worth of electricity to go about 40 miles. Plus, I get some exercise (depending how much I pedal, which is actually almost constantly).
All of the above, is a night and day difference. If I had an off-road small motorcycle of some kind, I would have to put it into a trailer and drive more than an hour to be able to use it. If I had a regular (unpowered) bicycle, the steep hills I live at the top of, would prevent me from riding it much because returning home would be a killer. Gas powered assist pedal bikes are not legal here (unless registered as a limited speed motorcycle), and attract WAY too much attention to use on bike paths, BMX parks, etc.
Another poster mentioned the 500 watt / 32km/h legal limit for power-assist e-bikes in Canada (where I also live), and YES, that is in effect, and IS a limitation...but here is my own perspective on that:
1. My bike has a switch (and programmable controller) that puts it in 'legal mode' by limiting its speed to no more than 32km/h. The other position (for off-road, closed course use only, heheh) is 'unlimited'. In practice I never use this switch, all that is really required is to behave responsibly, and when on bike paths, don't go faster than a regular bike could go. This way nobody gets agitated, nobody complains...so far, so good...PLUS, when I am riding on the road, if I choose to / need to, I can keep up with regular traffic, which is MUCH safer. Most of the time, 500 watts will not permit this.
2. I do understand and respect the legal limit, but I am 275lbs, and 500 watts is of course designed for an average sized human. 500 watts simply will NOT get me up the hills returning to my house, even with strenuous pedalling. If I tried, it would be so slow going, I would probably burn out the motor (as well as my own motor)... So I respect the speed limits, and leave it at that.
3. There is an avenue (at least here in BC) to register the bike as a 'limited speed motorcycle', which I may pursue some day. This would mean insurance and registration, and it would become fully legal...but then I would lose the ability to use in on bike paths, which is a huge part of the attraction for me. So, not sure I am going to go there, but it is an option.
4. This stuff is all brand new. None of the current laws have been tested in court (to my knowledge), and all are pretty vague...lots of gray areas. I accept I may be taking some risk, but in my judgement the risk is very small. Everyone needs to judge the situation where they live, for themselves.
It may have been the same poster who mentioned something about a sidecar. Cool idea, and yes, that would allow space for batteries...but seriously, 500 watts is not enough to haul any sidecar and human and bicycle, up anything more than the most gentle hill. It will barely keep a rig like that, going on the flats. I respectfully suggest a set up with a 'legal / non-legal' switch if there are any hills at all where you live, or it will just not be useful. A trike of some kind would probably be lighter, more stable, and easier to operate.
Phew! Hopefully all of the above is useful to somebody, and / or stimulates some good discussion
Cheers,
Doug