So what engine chain do you run?

M

MacZulu

Member
Just wondering if there are many people running chains lighter duty than the 415, I have a kmc 415 hd and it's too big. it rubs the engine through its rotation in the sprocket housing, so I'm running a 415 right now.

I'm pretty sure I've read one guy who builds for business said he uses a 410, the z410 kmc I think. I like the security of the 415, but man is it a pain to deal with. and I think it adds more drag when just pedaling. Right now I'm still tuning the motor, but when she's running well I'll start everything else.

I'm going to replace my 2 rightside chains from z410s to k710s, I read a member recommend it, so I read up on them and decided to try them. I know they are tough to break an don't have half links. I could use a 410 half link, but then whats the point of changing chains if I do that. there are stronger kmc chains, but the k710 is $14 CAD (that's almost free USD) and that's seems good value.

I'm considering going to the k710 on the leftside too, they have a strength rating higher than the 415 apparently. although I have read pedal bike people complain about stretch, so I'll see how they do on the rightside first. and I also doubt the pitch is right for the engine sprocket.

Anybody running lighter chains? any life experience you'd like to pass along?
 
The stock 415 kit chain is more than strong enough for these little engines & should provide the proper clearance.
The trick to making sure they don't break is making sure the rear sprocket is lined up with the front engine sprocket (& that it's also mounted on the wheel as perfect as possible).

I have been using a 410H (BMX chain) on my race bikes for several years without any issues, but the sprockets need to be milled thinner to fit in the chain & also have to be mounted extra perfect to avoid issues.
 
VMB I just want to get away from the 415 because it such a pain to break and rejoin, I don't use master links which keeps the chain stronger but makes chain adjustments a pia. Even with my heavy duty chain breaker I still need to use my small vice grips to keep the outer plate from bending as I force the pin out.

This is not a priority for me, but when it's running well I will start tweaking all the things I dont like or think can be improved on the bike. Chains, cable clean up, paint work stuff like that.

So if I want to run a different chain left side I will probably have to mod my engine sprocket so the chain fits well
 
Here's a chain chart that might help you....
chain chart.jpg
 
thanks for the info man, I might think about getting that Park tool and keeping the 415.

I have one of these, https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/-25-to-60-roller-chain-breaker/A-p8039311e

but the 415 is a little too wide to fit the whole chain width in the tool. So I get clamped on the near outer plate not the far one, that's why I use the mini vice grips.

the chart says the 415 tensile strength is 1600, that must be kg right?

I was reading through this kmc chain guide
http://kmcchain.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ChainGuide.pdf

it says th k710 is 1300 kg, and they have a k910 that is 1500. so the 415 is stronger, which makes sense looking at it construction in comparison. I guess I'm hoping to make the pedaling smoother, feels clunky right now. my second k710 arrived today so I will swap out the right side chains soon, then I can see how well it holds up.

I kinda think I need to go over each chain tension again, starting on the left. looking up the park tool you suggest I found it at chain reaction cycles as a Park 3.2 for $36 CAD, just a newer version I guess. I think that tool might be a better idea than a new chain, I have lots of 415 to use as well.

thanks for your help VMB, I appeciate it.
 
Ok, I went and checked out my chain breaker again. I think with a file I can get it to fit the 415. It looks like there is enough material to remove to get them to fit. So I'll see if I get them to work for me first.
 
I have a chain breaker in my tools on my bike in case of a breakdown, here at home I use a bench grinder or 4 1/2 hand held grinder to grind the pins down. I did that for years on large chains, some were #100.
 
A hand held grinder is a great tool to have, you can get a entry level grinder from harbor freight for $10 when they have a sale.
 
Hey Greg, I plan on using my dremel to remove the mushroomed pin end on my k710 to break it easier. I do have a 4 1/2" grinder, a very handy tool for the bike work.

Tonight I will try deal with all three chains
 
Its fairly easy, I grind the pins down till I start hitting the side plate of the chain, a little twisting and it comes apart.
 
MacZulu- What you probably want is a 415 INDUSTRIAL/TRIKE chain. I've used only this for years-
They can sometimes be hard to find but usually a search will come up with them- I think KMC has one. The cost is not usually much different when stocks are normal.

same pitch as with a regular or heavy duty 415, but they have smaller side plates- they don't derail- I tried a 410 once and narrow motor sprock built for one- and it came off so fast I decided I didn't want to take the chance and never looked back.

The 415 Industrial / Trike chains weigh literally HALF as much somehow and they roll just incredibly more easy- you'll notice the pedal difference first and then know your motor must be feeling it too.
 
https://www.bikewagon.com/kmc-3-16-...MIvc3UrJiD4AIViozICh1S1AVLEAQYASABEgJSW_D_BwE
Check these photos against the other 415 chains and you can see the plates are much sleeker- but be careful- they call them all "Heavy Duty" but "Industrial / Trike 415 " is almost a different chain completely
I haven't put a motor chain on or off for years but what I think I mostly dis was use a cheap clunky Boygoesfast chain tool to break the chain- BUT DO NOT PUSH TJE PIN ALL THE WAY THTOUGH- you've got to use small turns to make sure the pin stays in the other side. Then to reassemble - usually channel locks will squeeze it most of the way back through and you need a small pin breaker or a punch to finish driving it.
 
end Did I put a thinner bike chain tool pin in the other to drive it the last 1/16" ?- can't recall, but something like that.
 
thanks for the new info Nashville, I hadn't seen that chain in my reseach. After searching for it myself I could only find one other vendor, mbrebel.com. I wonder if that 415 has better halflinks? I hate the cotter pin links for the 415s.

I know what you mean about not puching the pin all the way out, I've done that a couple of times with the 415. I used my small C vice grips with tiny incremental pressure clicks to rest the pin to the point I could use my tool and little vice grips to get it back together. now I end up taking the chain out of the tool early a few times to check before I finally clear the pin from the inside and the chain breaks but pin is solid in the outer plate

that lighter duty 415 does look like a good leftside option
 
I think half link for 415 Industrial Trike may indeed be a problem to find. I know what you mean about the cotter pin half link, but I have found standard 415 half links w/o the cotter.

Still I've never used them. I don't run any tensioners- a decision arrived at before the newer spring loaded things- but always set the Motor chain first with no half links and then match the pedal chain. Smaller rear motor sprocks always have better frame clearances than larger ones- the bike below has a 34 alloy sprock disk brake drillings directly bolted to drilled flat sided large flange hub with titanium bolts.

(not familiar with the 710- ? chain you mentioned in the O.P.) Still another option is using a derailleur
($10 "Judax:" or some name like that is the best functional secret for that price- works great! )
anyway that tensions the pedal side to the set motor chain- also small and light sprung chain tensioners out the past couple of years- about 10 to 15 dollars, if you care to run single freewheels.

I don't put a lot of miles on the bikes these days, but there is a drawback with matching chains in that the motor chain will stretch faster than the pedal chains- not a functional problem except in terms of matching tension, so this has to be adjusted once in a great while.

As I'm no longer pushing the bikes up to a second floor apartment I'd probably be tempted to us a derailleur again, and a 5 or even 3- for lightness cog.
DSCF2208.JPG
 
If you're doing a 79cc pred build, you will want a 420 chain, or an expensive 415. The cheap ones that come with the kit can't hold up to the HP. Ever since I swapped the initial two chains out with 420 motorcycle chains, I haven't had an issue. I also use a KMC Z-link to drive the chainring, and a KMC x-link chain to drive the cassette. These chains are actually stretch resistant, and I use those two for exactly the system they were designed for. a 410 single speed chain for the chainring (the Z-link) and an 8 speed chain for the cassette (the x-link).
 
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