Question for the the 4 strokers out there

[NEAT TIMES]

Working On A Scooter Guy Type Set Up Today, With The 5:1 Ratio Trans And Shifter. Planning On A In Frame Titan Using The 3:25 Ratio Enclosed Chain Drive. Will Need About 60 Teeth On Rear Sprocket. May Try To Seal Chain Case For Gear Oil. Ron .

 

[MotorbikeMike]

Hello, here is what I do not understand. xlite keeps talking about "a Grand" to build a 4-stroke bike. I built 3 4-stroke EZ Bikes on old frames I had lying around. A Schwinn Tornado (1962 model) with good wheels I got off of a used cruiser I bought for 40.00 and I paid 25.00 for the Tornado.

IF you include BOTH bikes, 65.00 new tires (I wanted) 20.00 pr. I now have 85.00 in the bike, $85 + $650 (EZ Motorbike Manual kit) = $735.00

Wifey's Murray, used saddle, used Murray frame (paid 25 for the bike), MTB fork with brakes less than 80.00 2 new tires, used front wheel, used rear wheel. Again EZ Motorbike Manual kit $25+ 80+ 650= $755 OOOPPPSS Wifey's bike has EZ Pipe add 40.00 $795.00

My Murray bought bike 25.00 new tires 20.00 springer and brake 40.00 EZ Motorbike kit $650 new big plush saddle 40.00. So it seems that 25+20+40+650=40= 775.00

I bought new bike for Customer, paid 125 for new cruiser with v-brakes and 6 speed Shimano lets do the math, IF I had installed EZ Bike kit, instead of the 66 cc he wanted for price reasons, and lack of experience here is what we would have $125.00+650.00=$775.00

So is your "spend a grand" concept intended to scare off potential 4-stroke owners, or just what did you have in mind? Perhaps you thought everyone was going to buy $400.00 and up bikes (that doesn't happen much here) or you were unaware that a kit with an American drive could be had for $650, and it is a true in-frame?

Perhaps a pic or two would be nice?

I hope you like them! I sure like riding them

Mike

 

[bandito]

Im not sure but maybe he got the idea from me, Ive stated that I had a grand into my DIMENSION EDGE kit plus the bike. $750 kit plus $200 new mongoose bike plus buku bucks on mirror, double kickstand, extra drive rollers, locks, bell, lights, tires and tubes etc........

 

[xlite]

Hello, here is what I do not understand. xlite keeps talking about "a Grand" to build a 4-stroke bike. I built 3 4-stroke EZ Bikes on old frames I had lying around. A Schwinn Tornado (1962 model) with good wheels I got off of a used cruiser I bought for 40.00 and I paid 25.00 for the Tornado.

IF you include BOTH bikes, 65.00 new tires (I wanted) 20.00 pr. I now have 85.00 in the bike, $85 + $650 (EZ Motorbike Manual kit) = $735.00

Wifey's Murray, used saddle, used Murray frame (paid 25 for the bike), MTB fork with brakes less than 80.00 2 new tires, used front wheel, used rear wheel. Again EZ Motorbike Manual kit $25+ 80+ 650= $755 OOOPPPSS Wifey's bike has EZ Pipe add 40.00 $795.00

My Murray bought bike 25.00 new tires 20.00 springer and brake 40.00 EZ Motorbike kit $650 new big plush saddle 40.00. So it seems that 25+20+40+650=40= 775.00

I bought new bike for Customer, paid 125 for new cruiser with v-brakes and 6 speed Shimano lets do the math, IF I had installed EZ Bike kit, instead of the 66 cc he wanted for price reasons, and lack of experience here is what we would have $125.00+650.00=$775.00

So is your "spend a grand" concept intended to scare off potential 4-stroke owners, or just what did you have in mind? Perhaps you thought everyone was going to buy $400.00 and up bikes (that doesn't happen much here) or you were unaware that a kit with an American drive could be had for $650, and it is a true in-frame?

You forgot sales tax and shipping. And most of the guys I did engines for preferred expensive new bike, not the Walmart specials and flea market deals I personally go for. Specially after spending that much for a motor. It's been my experience that pre-purchase numbers always fall short of reality.

$800-$900 essentially IS a grand in my book. And I suspect most buyers will go way over that.

I'm sure you have a good product and I'm not trying to discourage sales. It's just your website leaves a lot to the imagination and other details are kinda vague. It would also be nice to see feedback from non-dealers too. I'm looking for a solution to the 4-stroke gearbox problem myself but let's not minimize the expense at this time.

 

[xlite]

Im not sure but maybe he got the idea from me, Ive stated that I had a grand into my DIMENSION EDGE kit plus the bike. $750 kit plus $200 new mongoose bike plus buku bucks on mirror, double kickstand, extra drive rollers, locks, bell, lights, tires and tubes etc........

Hey! DIMENSION EDGE was my first kit many years ago. Really crummy mounting but great Mitsubishi 43cc motor. And I spent well over a grand but that was pretty good back then.

Now I look back and laugh.

 

[bandito]

Its a good kit, the mounting brackets are sufficient and sturdy plus it does exactly what it was intended to do. Pricey yes but it does have a few features others dont like being able to disengage the friction wheel off of the tire while riding, changing the drive roller to a different size is a snap plus it has the honda 50 motor which Im very pleased with.

 

[xlite]

Its a good kit, the mounting brackets are sufficient and sturdy plus it does exactly what it was intended to do. Pricey yes but it does have a few features others dont like being able to disengage the friction wheel off of the tire while riding, changing the drive roller to a different size is a snap plus it has the honda 50 motor which Im very pleased with.

Obviously he's made major changes to the design. Back then not only was the mounting a disaster but WOODEN wheels that wore out in 20 miles. $48 a set. IIRC my 2-stroke version was $850.

I can't complain because it prompted me to design, build, and sell my own Homelite based friction kits and ultimately led to the HTs.

 

[jbcruisin]

Mine just keeps on going without any problems. After 500 or so miles I changed the belt. Took $8.00 & about 30 seconds. I don't understand what the discussion is about?
Jay

 

[bandito]

Obviously he's made major changes to the design. Back then not only was the mounting a disaster but WOODEN wheels that wore out in 20 miles. $48 a set. IIRC my 2-stroke version was $850.

I can't complain because it prompted me to design, build, and sell my own Homelite based friction kits and ultimately led to the HTs.

Heres a couple of pics of the support brackets.

 

[jbcruisin]

Wow, we are miles apart here. Here's pics of my build:

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Butchatron,

I have family in KY [Elizabethtown] and my favorite MB event is in Dawson Springs, KY. I like KY.

I have been extremely busy over the last several months, designing & testing the EZM Q-Matic drive system. I have invested a lot of money and more importantly 110% of my time in developing the best drive system for the 4-stroke IC motors. After a little market research it was clear, both the Honda & HS 49 CC 4-stroke motors are reliable. And I am sure many have voiced their views abut 2 strokes & 4 strokes, but after 15 years of Pro MC racing in the Mid-west I can attest to the difference between the two. All the 4-stroke race bikes were rebuilt once a year, whereas the 2 stroke motors were rebuilt [refreshed] between each race. Facts are facts and 4-strokes are just plain more durable and forgiving than 2-stroke motors.

Sadly the 4-stroke kits got off to a rocky start because of poor engineering, and poor quality control in the drive transfer systems. The drive train problems found its way throughout the industry and even included the famous Whizzer brand.

I found it hard to believe these problems even existed because they were addressed and solved over 60 years ago in the good ole' USA. Many companies made motorbikes, & scooters in the 40s & 50s and managed to transfer the power from the motor to the rear wheel. Some used belt drive, some used chain drive, some used slip clutches, and some used automatic clutches, but all managed to get the power to the wheel.

I guess in our quest to get "something for nothing" we accepted the lack of quality & engineering for price. After a careful review of the drive systems and the suggested upgrades & fixes, I found it necessary to return to the basics. How do you stop gears from failure & whining sounds? Simple, just don't use gears. How do you deal with stretching primary drive chains and whining sounds? Simple, just don't use primary drive chains. How do you deal with undersize, poorly designed clutches? Simple, just don't use bad clutches.

We located American companies, American labor, American parts, and American engineering to fix the problem. Cost more? You betcha', but it works! I have way over 2500 miles on my test bike and ZERO problems. It easily pulls hills, heavy riders, and gets over 175 MPG [mine has continued to test over 200 MPG]. I have tested both the Honda And HS motors, and I like the HS better [is a little faster on top end]. I like the manual & automatic drive, but the automatic is easier to ride and allows for higher ratios for better cruising speeds [lower RPMs at higher speeds].

Hopefully others will invest their money to fix the problems and offer other solutions and maybe lower prices. So far only a few have been willing to gamble their money, and most are using American parts, engineering & labor in the process.

If you elect to construct your own kit, contact me personally and I will share the details of our system for consideration.

If you want details from a non-dealer, ask Ray from MA for information. He had 2 EZM drive systems at Lewes, DE, one Silent Power [manual] & one of the new Q-Matic drives.


Hope some of these comments are helpful in your quest to build your 4-stroke motorbike

Have fun,

 

[xlite]

Heres a couple of pics of the support brackets.

Looking at your 2nd pic it seems the design has not changed at all. I was never able to tighten that middle joint enough. From an engineering standpoint it struck me as very bad design. Maybe your 4-stroke puts less stress there than my Mitsubishi but I never got more than a couple hundred miles without having to fix it.

At first I replaced the two pieces with a single solid bar and after a few more modification built an entirely new cage of my own design. Sold quite a few. The 43cc Mit still runs fine to this day.

 

[butchatron]

As to the question of 'spending a grand' that depends entirely on the buyer. It all depends on how much you want to put into the bike. I myself want this bike to look nice. Chrome fenders, ape hangers, 72 spoke wheels, springer forks and all the trimmings. So when the dust settles and the smoke clears, I will have well over a grand into this bike, but it wont be from the engine kit.

 

[azbill]

to make anything truly yours alone (unique), costs
some can do it from the start, some have to do it piece by piece
that's what makes us all different

 

[BarelyAWake]

Nuthin is really yers til ya bleed a lil...


Motto of the do-it-yerselfer