No DL for motorized bicycles

[outlawbiker]

My comment was in regards to losing your DL for driving a vehicle w/o insurance that needs insurance. Easy. You violate the law you lose.

I said nothing re the need for a DL to ride motorized bikes. That's up to the state you live in and I don't live in IL.

I live in CA and you do need a M2 to ride a gas bike and nothing to ride an ebike. Which is fine with me.

Ebikes are safer. You are not stressing the frame with a vibrating POS engine that it was never designed for. You are not going as fast. The fenders are less likely to come off and cause you to slide out and cause an accident.

I can see every reason the lawmakers are going to be harder on gas bikes than ebikes and I have no problem with it.

So piss on the Op cause he lost his DL for no insurance? Nice to know there's no exceptions because some one is struggling to get by in our screwed up economy, its the law so everyone loses,ok,clear as crystal. But that wasnt was whats up for debate here,the Op lives in Illinois and is refering to Illinois law. Im sure he doesn't care about your feelings of what should happen to uninsured Prius owners in California,thanks for stopping by tho!

 

[The_Aleman]

To a point, I don't think a driver's license should be required on these. Many here are like myself, just wanting to save money and take care of short trips without having to use a cage. I don't ride these because I lost my license, I ride these because I enjoy being on a bicycle yet I have too many miles on my legs to pedal like I used to. My 2HP engine takes all the load off my knees and gets me around just a tiny bit faster than I used to pedal. If I was interested in speed, I wouldn't be on a bicycle, motor or not. I have a car and a truck. But I don't think a license should be required for 30MPH or less.

Of course, there is an alarming number of people on here with bikes capable of 40+ and more people building them. Motor-assisted bicycling is supposed to be low-speed transportation with the engine being an assist device, not the other way around. I've seen several newer members removing pedals and running the drivetrain through the bicycle gears, effectively making a flimsy motorcycle. That kind of stuff annoys me and I have no words of encouragement or camaraderie to give people who do so. For those people, I think a DL should be required, as well a dunce cap.

If you don't want to pedal at all, don't ride a bicycle. Period. Just my opinion.

 

[Mike B]

Please forgive me, I didn't know that the laws should be adjusted to accommodate people struggling with the economy. Absolutely, anyone struggling with the economy should be able to do thousands of dollars of damage to other people struggling with the economy with no recourse.

Silly me.

 

[racie35]

I predict 8 pages minimum for this thread

 

[outlawbiker]

Aleman, i agree with ya to a point, when people start taking out the bicycle end of it out of the equation,than no longer is it a bike. those are the people that need the eyebrow raised at.

Excessive speeds on most of these bikes we know is stupid. But thats why we are still governed by speed limits by laws on these bikes.

But in every major city ive lived in,before or after the "MB boom". there are normal cyclists who cut in and out of traffic, blow thru red lights and ignore all the traffic laws all together. Us MB people shouldnt be the ones singled out here and have more restrictions placed on us.

 

[outlawbiker]

Please forgive me, I didn't know that the laws should be adjusted to accommodate people struggling with the economy. Absolutely, anyone struggling with the economy should be able to do thousands of dollars of damage to other people struggling with the economy with no recourse.

Silly me.

no silly me, because i never seen that he caused an accident,did anyone get hurt,anyone die? hmm i must of missed that part. Maybe i would be more inclined to jump on your bandwagon if he said property was damaged or there was someone hurt,but even in that case then he would still be forced by the same law your talking about making him pay out the ass regardless, but like i said,silly me.

I think what you are trying to refer to is maybe,ill go on a limb here and say illegals who come here drive illegally,and do a hit and run and no responsibility can be claimed?

But thats a whole other topic for another time.

 

[John76]

I apologize for some of my outrage but this crap really pisses me off, people who are getting on this we need to change the law and make everyone have DL's to ride a MB is making me bang my head against the wall with its stupidity.

First off,anyone paying close attention to the way the law here in Illinois, You'll notice the way it is drafted is kinda messed up. 170 lb rider etc etc. Anyways if you look at the Federal law its word for word verbatim. Thats because our state legislator plagiarized the whole damn thing, so in other words whats good for the county is good for Illinois apparently.

Next is the DL issue, why are you people so persistent about pushing for this? not just in this topic but in others as well? Heres a fun fact, my punishment for loosing my DL is over,I paided my debt to society for my unspeakable god awful sins and atrocities against the people and the state.OH! Lordy,lordy! Ill never do that again. <-- sarcasm. But because i cant pay the whopping 10 grand fine to crook county to release my DL to give it to the secretary of state, I should still be punished? Or are your trying to say ,well people who dont have a DL or cant get one shouldn't be able to do anything with their life as far as transportation goes. so no one should be allowed to even use a skateboard in Illinois without a DL? Better yet,no one can use ANY transportation without a DL! there,that way every avenue is covered for all you.

well **** boys,with that kinda of mentality,we should make riding a normal bicycle without a DL illegal too! What my kid cant ride a big wheel without a DL either?!? Well why not? You few people i see think we should take something the law already says and change it based on opinion and NOT facts. Oh,stupid me,we already have done that with the constitution too!

No,no, now i get it, you want to take any opportunity away from us,nah, lets not let people try and get around or find a job with a MB,lets keep pushing on people like me into the coroner like a pissed off dog,lets keep helping the state make money, rack up more fines and costs for something new, encourage cops to target other MB riders to look for moving and equipment violations, more tickets! more fines! yes, i finally see what you want, because remember this boys and girls, once you get your way and make everyone get on board with having a DL for these bikes, the S.O.S steps in,and now any infraction,ANY, on your bike is now held against your driving record.Because now you've just crossed the threshold from bicycle to motor vehicle.

So good,lets all jump in and drink the kool aid! lets see how far it gets ya, when your insurance rates go up,or you get one point to many and you get a summary suspension in the mail,or just when officer friendly wants to say you were 5mph over the speed limit or driving recklessly. blamo, right there on your drivers abstract with the state. wonderful choice boys,bravo!

And then when your sitting here with people like us,without a DL, we get to say,we told you so.

AMEN Brother! Ride Free Brother

 

[John76]

To a point, I don't think a driver's license should be required on these. Many here are like myself, just wanting to save money and take care of short trips without having to use a cage. I don't ride these because I lost my license, I ride these because I enjoy being on a bicycle yet I have too many miles on my legs to pedal like I used to. My 2HP engine takes all the load off my knees and gets me around just a tiny bit faster than I used to pedal. If I was interested in speed, I wouldn't be on a bicycle, motor or not. I have a car and a truck. But I don't think a license should be required for 30MPH or less.

Of course, there is an alarming number of people on here with bikes capable of 40+ and more people building them. Motor-assisted bicycling is supposed to be low-speed transportation with the engine being an assist device, not the other way around. I've seen several newer members removing pedals and running the drivetrain through the bicycle gears, effectively making a flimsy motorcycle. That kind of stuff annoys me and I have no words of encouragement or camaraderie to give people who do so. For those people, I think a DL should be required, as well a dunce cap.

If you don't want to pedal at all, don't ride a bicycle. Period. Just my opinion.

Hey there buddy I agree with what you are saying. Matter of fact I am in the process of building a chopper right now so that I can get around easier and cheaper and I'm only putting a 49cc motor on mine cause I'm not in it for the speed, but the transportation part/ getting from A to B safely.

 

[Mike B]

If you want to drive a vehicle that needs insurance, you better get insurance.

If you drive a vehicle that needs repairs, you better get it repaired.

If you get too many tickets, you better get less tickets.

If you like to drive drunk, stop it.

Yeah, there are lots of reasons to lose a DL. Guess what? They are all your fault.

"The Man" is not looking for you. He's not following you. He's got better things to do than follow people around. He doesn't care.

Do you? If you are worried about the "man", well you better fix those lights eh?

And if he is keeping en eye on you why?

I've gotten 1 DUI and I think 5 moving violations, 5 parking tickets and 2 "fix its" in 40 years. Not even close to losing a license.

But then I'm not an "outlaw biker", so how could I know?

 

[outlawbiker]

If you want to drive a vehicle that needs insurance, you better get insurance.

If you drive a vehicle that needs repairs, you better get it repaired.

If you get too many tickets, you better get less tickets.

If you like to drive drunk, stop it.

Yeah, there are lots of reasons to lose a DL. Guess what? They are all your fault.

"The Man" is not looking for you. He's not following you. He's got better things to do than follow people around. He doesn't care.

Do you? If you are worried about the "man", well you better fix those lights eh?

And if he is keeping en eye on you why?

I've gotten 1 DUI and I think 5 moving violations, 5 parking tickets and 2 "fix its" in 40 years. Not even close to losing a license.

But then I'm not an "outlaw biker", so how could I know?

Good for you,and thats how you deal with your issues,but thats not what any of this is about,the only thing you wanted to stay close on topic was chastising the Op cause he lost his DL. There is no use further talking with you CAUSE THAT ISNT THE TOPIC HERE.

 

[Mike B]

The topic here is should a DL be required to ride a motorized bicycle.

My vote is as I said.

Yes for gas, no for ebike.

 

[John76]

Good for you,and thats how you deal with your issues,but thats not what any of this is about,the only thing you wanted to stay close on topic was chastising the Op cause he lost his DL. There is no use further talking with you CAUSE THAT ISNT THE TOPIC HERE.

Amen brother

 

[The_Aleman]

But in every major city ive lived in,before or after the "MB boom". there are normal cyclists who cut in and out of traffic, blow thru red lights and ignore all the traffic laws all together. Us MB people shouldnt be the ones singled out here and have more restrictions placed on us.

Oh yeah, most definitely. My exp, Hard-core lycra-clad Oakley-sporting pedalheads are some of the worst traffic offenders around!
It's like they think traffic lights are stop signs and stop signs are suggestions. The worst of them ride on the left-hand side of the road and then scream at cagers pulling out from the left because they weren't seen.

I was kinda one of them once, but without the lycra. Or the Oakleys. I wore jeans and generic sunglasses, safety glasses at night.
I crashed bad years ago riding on the left like an idiot. (Re)Learned the hard way that people pulling out left rarely ever glance right.
I did $3500 damage to a small SUV at 20MPH, considerably more than that for my own hospital bill lol

Motorized, no way. You _must_ ride on the right, and I've almost hit a Yuba Cuty chinagirl rider twice while I was cagin in the last month,
that rider riding on the left in the low 20s. No pinche bueno. I'd hate to have to be the one to teach that guy a lesson.
I looked right at the last second and he was a second away from meeting B-pillar.

TL;DR = We must all ride responsibly no matter what and do our best not to be a doofus when in operations.

 

[BarelyAWake]

This is a familiar debate, reading through the thread I see some familiar responses & as "off-topic" has been called - I think we should pause a moment and consider very carefully the OP's stated objectives & queries.

The preamble an intro & basic background, just to familiarize us with the author & the reason they created this thread;

Hello, my name is John76.
I have a past traffic ticket for no insurance and because of that I cannot renew my DL. Now I don't have the transportation to get out and find work or make the money to pay that ticket off and renew my DL. that was until I found out about these motorized bicycles that do not require a DL. I do agree that the saftey issues: helmet,eye protection, and lighting should be addressed.

This following would be the point at hand, which I would suggest to anyone replying is the OP's privilege to remind folks of, not anyone whom simply feels the thread isn't going the way they please;

Now the NO DL REQUIRED should be kept exactly as it is. Although the top speed could be increased to 30 mph and still be safe. I feel that there should not be a speed restriction, the ristriction should be engine size. To operate a motorized bicycle without a DL it's engine size should not exceed 80cc or 3HP, and should be allowed to have an automatic transmission/clutch or geared transmission/clutch set to the preference of the rider and be with or without pedal assist to the preference of the builder/rider. we need to ban together and keep the no DL required the way it is.

Thank you,and i welcome any support on this matter as well as any constructive critacism.

Of note, someone actually having a driver's license or not & all the assorted reasons why they may or may not have one are incidental, secondary at best to the questions & propositions above - which if I may clarify;

Should a driver's license be required to operate a motorized vehicle that does not travel in excess of 30mph, with an engine displacement of no more then 80cc and/or a maximum 3hp, geared or ungeared?

Which means, any & all replies regarding the causality of lost licenses are in fact off-topic to a degree - for example the above questions are equally appropriate to pose to someone who may simply choose to not have a license as they are for someone who's lost that privilege, as it is for someone who may be to young, old or infirm to have one at all.

Substantiating responses with personal opinions will naturally tend to include the causality, the reason having or not having an operator's license is important to that person - but again like the intro, it's a secondary topic, only relevant for familiarity & background.



All of that was admittedly a bit of a presumption on my part, just an attempt to keep this important subject going as it is pertinent to every member here, unlike the emotional tangents that seem to be intruding once again.

What isn't a presumption & is in fact a forum rule - you must conduct yourself in a civil fashion, respecting others & expecting to be respected in turn;

1. do not curse and treat all members with respect.

By far the most important - this is the one rule we really enforce.
...should a post consist of nothing more than simple flaming or it's obvious the poster is completely disregarding this rule by "clever" respellings to insult another - it will be edited/deleted... continued public strife and arguing rudely with another member or staff will also be deleted.
Should repeated warnings be ignored - that's when bans happen. We really don't like banning people, please don't force our hand with public displays.

 

[deacon]

Best I can tell there is a federal designation of motor assist bike it is an Ebike under 1000 watts, goes less than 25mph, and has pedals. As motor assist it is not designated a motor vehicle, but a bicycle even with the motor assist. What that means is up to the states, so its anybody's guess where they fall.

 

[Ronzworld]

I just picked up $720 in fines in Regina , sask in Canada ... been riding for 4 yrs and now they say I need to register but there is no classification to register it so it is rendered an un useable off road vehicle !!

 

[John76]

To BarelyAWake
I'm not trying to start any arguments or disrespect anyone. I have just completed my Schwinn Stingray Chopper build and I am simply trying to get some changes in the laws, more specifically the top speed restriction cause the motor that I just put on my chopper is a 49cc ScooterX Dirt Dog w/ pull start which is the smallest gas motor that I could find and it still goes between 25 and 33 mph with no mods. Now the 80cc pedal start gas motor does the same speed. That is why I am trying to get some of the laws changed.

Now as far as the DL issue, I have stated in my earlier posts that I am not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me or for any special treatment from the law about my DL. I also stated in the same post that I was not blaming anyone for me loosing my DL or that the law was out to get me. I clearly took responsibility for my actions which resulted in me loosing my DL. I am simply stating that I lost mine do to consequences and that take away my ability to get out and make the money to be able to pay my fine off and get them back, so when I found out about these motorized bicycles it gave me back that ability so I simply want to keep them where they don't require a DL to operate. And furthermore Since people aren't reading my post's all the way through, they are misunderstanding; I did not actually lose my license, they simply EXPIRED and the state of Illinois will not let me renew them until I get this past fine paid in full. So the state did not take my DL, they are only expired as is stated in my previous posts.

 

[outlawbiker]

sorry everyone, I went off into another world to see red and was so outraged i was missing a few things. Just really gets my blood boiling over about some stupid stuff sometimes.

I know some of the laws on our MB's here in Illinois are kinda worded wrong or not taking a few things about engine size or speed into consideration,however quite a few people have been trying to add this or take this out of our law since it was added on the books here. I think its been awhile since anyone has tried to do again. But,if we do succeed to get em to open up the books and make the revisions we want,then the flood of idiots get to add what they want,making it even more restrictive and possibly taking away our bikes.

In this case i know its broke,but is it really? So if it aint broke dont fix it? maybe? Or Less is more? Or loose lips sink ships? either way

 

[John76]

sorry everyone, I went off into another world to see red and was so outraged i was missing a few things. Just really gets my blood boiling over about some stupid stuff sometimes.

I know some of the laws on our MB's here in Illinois are kinda worded wrong or not taking a few things about engine size or speed into consideration,however quite a few people have been trying to add this or take this out of our law since it was added on the books here. I think its been awhile since anyone has tried to do again. But,if we do succeed to get em to open up the books and make the revisions we want,then the flood of idiots get to add what they want,making it even more restrictive and possibly taking away our bikes.

In this case i know its broke,but is it really? So if it aint broke dont fix it? maybe? Or Less is more? Or loose lips sink ships? either way

I understand what you're saying and you do make a good and valid point about the law revisions. I would be happy as long as the laws for motorized bicycles at least stay the way they are right now and don't get changed for the worst.

 

[KCvale]

I am tired of you drunken drivers and others who can't keep a driver license messing things up for everyone else. I strongly think you need to have a driver license to operate a motorized bicycle. The only reason you lost your license was because you couldn't follow the rules. Stop coming on these forums and trying to get people to feel sorry for you. Call a cab or pedal. I don't care which!

Funny, I am tired of people that can't see the difference between someone drunk getting into a comfortable 1 ton car and hurtling it down the highway to that same drunk trying to ride a motorized bike.

If you can't balance you fall over and even if you made it to the street all you could hurt is yourself.

Here in Phoenix, AZ Sheriff Joe does DUI checkpoints whenever he can get away with it and will arrest you if you are even close to .08 BAC because you had a couple of gasses of champagne on New Years and the ensuing fines and crap pretty much wipe out any money you have now and the foreseeable future.

That said, I think something like a certificate of completion of a 'Bicycle Safety' course you can get anywhere for $5 would be a good safety measure.
You do need to know how to operate a bike in traffic and rules.

BUT, people need to get to work, the store, and yes even the bar, but unlike a car if you are staggering drunk your MAB won't let you go far on it.

'Nuff said.