My new clutch actuator

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Nomad, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. cartisdm

    cartisdm New Member

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    What exactly is different about it that allows you to use the clutch to start from a dead stop?
     
  2. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Who else has ordered this?

    Has yours arrived? I ordered several weeks ago, nothing. Then he responded with some detailed issues with the product that I TOTALLY understand when doing HT stuff. But he eventually said he had mine ready and would ship. Still nothing.

    I normally give a guy several chances, believe me I've been on the other end. Now he won't answer my email. What is going on here?
     
  3. HT2005

    HT2005 Member

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    He says that this would allow you to pull off from a standstill, but that would wear down the friction pads. If you want to slip the clutch you need pads designed to be slipped.
     
  4. europorsche914

    europorsche914 New Member

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    I have been communicating with him and I discovered that he has run into some issues (our emails):

    *******************************************************************************

    From: "justin chambers"
    Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:17 AM
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: clutch actuator



    Hi my factory style of clutch actuator that came stock utilizes a small screw in the end of the actuator arm that clamps the cable in place. I notice your kit utilizes the other way of attaching the cable by using a clamp on cable end. Do you have two styles of kits because I do not have the required cable end to utilize your kit and adding this style of lever to your kit would be relatively easy to do since you obviously have the machinery required to produce the rest of the kit. If you would like photos of my style of clutch actuator arm, I would be willing to supply them. Thanks for your time -Justin

    *********************************************************

    RE: clutch actuator Friday, October 10, 2008 10:17 AM
    From: "James Swarthout" <[email protected]>To: Justin chambers
    Justin,



    Yes a photo would be great!



    We make our actuator arms out of aluminum…I’m not sure if I would want to trust a small set screw in aluminum.



    I think the screw would probably strip in an effort to get the cable connection tight.



    What I could do is supply the brass cable end at no extra charge.



    We have encountered another problem with our product and you may be able to help with photos.



    Apparently there are two different actuators from the factory.



    There is a pin in a hole that runs through the engine sprocket shaft…I don’t know if the pin lengths are different, or if the actuator rod hole is drilled closer to the sprocket.



    The bottom line is that about half of what we have shipped has performed better than expected for those customers, the other half are telling me that the actuator rod, and arm, rotates 360 degrees…never or just slightly making contact with the pin.



    If you could remove your factory actuator, take the cam rod out and photograph the housing that would be great. You have to clock the cam rod just right in order to remove it from the housing.



    Also if you could measure the length of the pin that runs through the engine sprocket, that would help too.



    If you have never disassembled yours, be aware that there is a ball bearing behind the pin that may roll out when you remove the pin.



    Best regards,

    Jim

    *********************************************************

    RE: clutch actuator Friday, October 10, 2008 11:28 AM
    From: "justin chambers" To: "James Swarthout" <[email protected]>

    Sure I will take the photos and make some measurements on the pin. I have not disassembled that part of the engine yet but from what I have read in the forums that many engines are shipped with out the ball bearing in place and when operating the clutch lever the clutch cable must be adjusted to completely disengage the clutch. This extra adjustment puts more tension on the clutch lever which causes the kit supplied lever to fail and the included locking mechanism to be inoperative. So I have sourced the ball bearing at: DIA 8 Steel Ball (Part #24) - $0.39. I will check it out this weekend and get back to you. -Justin

    ********************************************************

    RE: clutch actuator Monday, October 20, 2008 2:59 PM
    From: "justin chambers" To: "James Swarthout" <[email protected]>Message contains attachments1018081230.jpg (200KB), 1018081231.jpg (235KB), 1018081231b.jpg (248KB), 1018081233.jpg (178KB), 1018081236.jpg (179KB)

    I attached the photos of the clutch actuator and housing. My bike has the cam, rod, and ball bearing. The length of the rod is 26mm and the ball bearing is 8mm in diameter. Any of info I can help you with let me know. Is your clutch actuator cam made of steel or aluminum? I am interested in purchasing one as long as we can get the kit straightened out so that it will work on all bikes so if you need my help with testing too let me know. Thanks -Justin

    ********************************************************

    I have not received any emails back from him so I dont know if the project has been halted until he can figure out wat the differences are between all of the engines that is causing the problem or he is no longer continuing in its development. I attached the same photos that i sent to him. I hope he gets it figured out but I wont be buying one until he has if finalized. -Justin

    Received a final email from him:
    ********************************************************

    RE: clutch actuatorFriday, October 24, 2008 3:24 PM
    From: "Jim Swarthout" <[email protected]>To: "'justin chambers'"
    Justin,



    Thanks for the photos and info.



    I have been really busy this week.



    One of my customers’ lives close to the shop…he was good enough to bring his bike in so I would have yet another example to go by.



    I have found the problem, and my new kits include 2 pins of different lengths and a revised instruction sheet.



    I got feedback from more customers since we last talked and the problem is limited to some of the older engines.



    5 out of 20 didn’t work…I shipped them new kits this week…It will be interesting to see if the new kit resolves the problem.



    Thanks again,

    Jim


    ************************************************************
     

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    #24 europorsche914, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
  5. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Good post!

    Tim Swarthout has contacted me, and should finally be shipping.
     
  6. Creative Engineering

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    HT2005

    A logical assumption!

    I honestly thought the same thing after I first put my redesigned actuator on the point beach schwinn.

    Testing has proven that this is not the case.

    I'm 6'2" 235lbs...I rode the point beach shown on my web site like it was a small motorcycle. Stop/start over and over again. Riding slowly up driveways and grass, slipping the clutch and hoping to promote a failure...it never happened. My shop is on a dead end street...There are other machine shops, riggers, A/C shops, sign Shops...etc.

    Not only myself, but my 2 employees...and many others down our street rode the point beach for a month.

    These guys never rode the bike with the factory clutch, I never told them to pedal up before releasing the clutch...they all rode it like a motorcycle. I tried to "break" it before offering it as a product to the public.

    Guess what? Inspection after inspection...no clutch wear! Go figure

    You have to realize I didn't care if I smoked the clutch. The Point Beach was a project that came from a good shop customer. He has spent a lot of money with me over the past few years. He said make it right, so I did! If the clutch had failed I would have made him a new one...it didn't fail!

    europorsche914:

    My delayed response was not intended to make you feel like I didn't care about your efforts to help provide a solution to the problem I was having. I have been very busy tihs week making up revised kits. I recieved a lot of phone calls from very good people that bought my kit and had problems...they helped put this to rest.

    I've got to say that the Canadians are very understanding, considerate folks. The guys in Canada have telephones and they use them.

    I can assure you I have not thrown in the towel...2 weeks ago I made up several hundred kits...this isn't rocket science! I didn't want to double ship parts knowing there was a problem...for those who had a problem they didn't get the "fix" parts, they got a whole new kit...that's how I do business everyday.

    I can't sit in front of the computer all day answering emails...I try to do it every morning before I go to the shop...and in the evening when I get home. It doesn't always work out that way.

    There is a really neat "old school" thing called a telephone and I will answer that promptly...It's in my pocket all day long...at least I can keep working...my number is prominently dislayed on my web site for a reason!

    cartisdm:

    I really don't understand the question...The entire geometry is different.

    I could give you the drawings...If you are a machinist and have access to a CNC mill you could spend 2 days making one, hardly worth the $35.00 savings. You could also take the drawings to a machine shop and have one made at a cost of about $600.00.

    You will not be able to "Home brew" this assembly. As I've said in other posts, it is a total re-work of the original design...not just one thing that could easily be cobbled together from the old unit.

    If you are just curious, buy one...provided you don't destroy it; I will gladly return your money if you can't figure out how to make it work.

    Jim
     
    #26 Creative Engineering, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2008
  7. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    ...................
     
    #27 Nomad, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  8. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    ..............
     
    #28 Nomad, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  9. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Good info guys!!
     
  10. Goat Herder

    Goat Herder Gutter Rider

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    Please keep us posted good info!
     
  11. Walter F.

    Walter F. New Member

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    Wait until you guys see what Jim's coming up with next! Happy Hill & Trails Walter F.
     
  12. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    ...............
     
    #32 Nomad, Oct 26, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  13. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Got my clutch kit yesterday. Looks well made. It does fit with the Shifter Kit, but there are a couple changes that may be needed, or rather there are some areas to watch out for. For example the elongated clutch arm may hit the upper rear motor mount bracket, the case stands a bit proud from where the old case did which necessitates new bolts with the new thicker left plate (*ugg, I tore threads finding this out - WATCH OUT!!) and an adjustment of the 17T sprocket....not huge issues but noteworthy, and certainly workable.

    Seems like my stock pin will work fine - but the supplied pins are so nice I may grind the longer one just a hair to match the crappy stock pin length. And I found my old clutch spring!

    I haven't rode the bike yet because I need to build the old mule up with new revision plates and generally bring the install up to the latest shifter kit version we are currently selling. This mule bike is a real testament to something besides my skinned knuckles!

    *If you are reading this and have a shifter kit and want to install the clutch kit, evaluate your screw length situation. The AL alloy HT engine case threads will pull right out if you only end up with 2-3 threads engaging. The clutch kit screws (for sure the 2 shorter ones) and the shifter kit screws would be fine if the engine case was steel or something but these screws no longer make enough thread engagement for holding in a soft alloy. I will be hitting the True Value for the correct length....
     
    #33 Pablo, Oct 26, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  14. Creative Engineering

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    Pablo,

    Unbelievable!!!

    I shipped that batch Thursday! And you got yours already. Florida to Washington in 2 days. Maybe USPS figured it would cost less to fly it as opposed to truck.

    Anyway, glad to hear it arrived. You're gonna love it!

    If you will let me know how thick the plate is, I will supply the correct bolts with my kit for those who have shifter kits.

    I would guess it would be a good idea to delete the counterbores for the cap screws as well.

    Best Regards,
    Jim

    P.S. This customer must have an earlier version of the shifter kit.

    Quote:
    "Jim, Yes I received it. It is a quality product. I am able to takeoff from a dead stop if wanted. I usually start from a roll though. The cam does the trick. I have a shifter kit and had to bend the left bearing plate in toward the engine a little and put some washers between the bearing and the sprocket. Your part is just a little thicker than the original cover. It was just a matter of spacing, no big deal. Thanks for the excellent service,
    Larry"
     
  15. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    I'm pretty sure the counterbores aren't hurting anything as the new plate is .140" or so with powder coat (call it .150" to be safe), and yes there is no (easy time) bending it because there is a 4"x3/4" L welded to the left bearing plate now.

    Oh almost forgot, since 0.15 in = 3.81 mm, you may as well step up to the next standard length. 35 mm on the short ones and 50mm on the long one if my brain is in the right mode.. This would be HUGELY appreciated and thoroughly awesome. Thanks!
     
    #35 Pablo, Oct 26, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  16. Motoschwinn

    Motoschwinn Member

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    Oh come on Walter give us a sneak peek or a clue!!!
     
  17. Walter F.

    Walter F. New Member

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    CLUE: I bought two sight unseen, Happy Hills & Trails Walter F.GVP
     
  18. FileStyle

    FileStyle New Member

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    I cant wait to see whats next! do you know something walter that we dont?
    here is my clutch actuator, Jim done a fantastic job , his machine skills show, I got a nice quality piece that is worth the money in my book! he offers fantastic service and I honor his honesty and integrity. I will support jim when he unveils his next piece. the one thing I did was put the actuator on the buffing wheel and put a good polish on it. and I asked jim if he could make a dress up kit for our chengines. a nice alum.magneto cover and a nice alum.clutch cover would be real nice to match the actuator!!!
     

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  19. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    Hey nofair! Your engine came with a chain lube hole rotfl:p
     
  20. FileStyle

    FileStyle New Member

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    you like that pablo!

    it's custom!rotfl
     

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