My 1st bike/trike/moped project ever

[zabac70]

@Mike B
You are right - I was doing math KW - HP in my mind at 2,30 in the morning (my time) and it was by 0,25 instead of 0,75...Sorry
Dual drive is very hard to achieve to work properly (some elaborate electronic and sensors are needed , because of minor differences in motor production process; at some speed it becomes very obvious (unless controlled) in a way that one wheel turns faster than other , and eating the tire and causing drag , which drains battery faster and heating the motor). Rear differential is the way to go , meaning cheaper , not better , but very useful. It solves a ton of problems regarding drive chain (pedaling), gearing down and drive itself. However , it adds weight , so it's used on a trikes with very potent battery packs and strong motors..

 

[zabac70]

http://www.servovision.com/hub motor/Copy of hub_motor_BDLC.html
http://www.stromer.ca/mystromer/modelle/motor.html

 

[paul]

the motor looks just like the one that golden motor sells. 72v would be wicked

 

[vsavoldi]

Yeah my dream would be to have a differential. I have looked at them quite a few times and either they are unavailable or out of my pricing or overkill for a bicycle. Someone (Zabac I believe) mentioned earlier about the issues with trying to keep dual drive wheels in sync. Those controllers are quite spendy ($300-$400) although I can't find where I saw them before.

I am drafting plans for a future project (2 or so years from now) to do another electric trike, from scratch, with enclosure (possibly a tadpole design) as a commuter. It may be sooner if the funding comes through. I have thought about both the BLDC high torque/reversing/regen motor/controller and a differential and transmission. My big decisions there is to decide on the size but I'm leaning more to keep in the bicycle range so it will not require DMV/Insurance/Licensing/rules and regulations for hi-way use.

I saw gas at $4.75 a gallon yesterday, not quite up to the rest of the world but getting there. I guess Mike and I will never see $.40 a gallon again - lol

Update on my trike, well I won the $50 1000w Currie motor. Sometimes my cheapness astounds me... Hopefully it's not just another $50 bill tossed out the window. I am going to wait to get it, hook it up and continue my testing, (keeping the amps down below 35). The good part is it will mount to my existing motor setup and it comes with a freewheeling sprocket so I will eliminate that drag when pedaling.

I was able to straighten my axle housing and fit in another bearing close to the sprockets. It seems to have eliminated the axle flex so If I can get the chains adjusted properly I shouldn't have any issues (crossed fingers). Everything is running pretty smoothly at the moment so I am just waiting for delivery of the new motor.

Think I will go practice my welding today, you all have fun!!

 

[vsavoldi]

Update

The Good, The Bad, The Ugly?

The Good, The new motor came in and seems much nicer then the last one, mounted right up, plugged right in to discover...

The Bad, Somehow my Kelly controller got fried when the motor smoked, it just blinks "Over Voltage" at me...

A few emails later....

The Ugly? Kelly is going to Warranty Replace the controller and even allowed me to upgrade to the 48v 100a version for $20

Sometimes it's OK to be ugly

More waiting...

I did pull the batteries and took it out for a couple miles, everything held up fine. I do seem to have some issue getting into the tallest (low) gear of the cassette. It's like the derailleur doesn't want to move over enough, even if I help it.

Would it be ok to bend the mount a little to help with the alignment?

 

[paul]

have you tried adjusting the cable and the low gear screw? make sure you have before doing any bending. what will happen you bend to get high gear you loose low gear

 

[vsavoldi]

Oh yeah, me and that cable have had our rounds - lol
What's this low gear screw you mention? I know it's hard to believe that a grown adult knows nothing about bicycles but I'm learning.

I will look for some screw, especially since bending does not seem proper.

thx

 

[paul]

youtube is my teacher. here is one video, thier is lots of them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1gSwhsVN8 whole lot easier then me trying to explain. its pretty simple

 

[vsavoldi]

That was a nicely done vid, thanks for the link!

 

[vsavoldi]

Update:

Ok I am officially calling Version 1 complete. Woohoo!

I received the new controller on Friday. On Saturday I programmed it right up, double checked all my connections and chain adjustments. Took it out for a trouble free 3 or so miles over hill and dale. No overheating problems, no chain problems. It was a very nice feeling to think I was almost done.

Back up on the bench to install the 12v system for the lights. Re-designed the power board attachment system as the original was failing. Re-made the brake support bar to get a better adjustment on the brakes. Nuts and bolts check, off the bench and ready to ride. Was heading out for a test ride and my neighbor came out with his quad e-bike we all chatted for 30-40 min and the clouds came in and got cold.

Well decided to goto dinner and then went with a friend to check out wallyworld bikes for his potential motorized bike project. Nothing special available locally so just came home.

Tomorrow I am going to shoot for a 10 mile trip. Some up, some down.

 

[silverbear]

Congratulations!
SB

 

[paul]

feels good! hope you enjoy all your rides as much as i do mine. electric bikes are great

 

[zabac70]

Good luck with your trike , and may it have many miles trouble free!

 

[vsavoldi]

Thanks guys.

My ride today went pretty well. The brake cables needed tightening after I almost rear ended a taxi with his left turn signal blinking yet turning right while actually trying to figure out what the heck is coming up behind him.

Scared me like crazy due to the realization that I had no choices, I pulled the brakes and cables slipped in the clamps which = minimal braking. With the left turn signal I could have just blasted to the right side except he was pulling right while staring at me in his mirror. My Huge eyes, screaming at him to **** or get off the pot, looking at his big eyes as he realized I was going to plow into his rear end. It would have been a mess but he hit his brakes and as soon as I saw the brake light I buzzed by on the right.

Of course this all happened in about 1/16th of a second.

I fixed the brake cables and finished my ride @ 7.5 miles. I pedaled quite a bit and every time I stopped I checked the heat coming off the motor. After a long incline I could no longer rest my hand on the motor so I feel that's too hot.


After the ride everything was good with only one chain adjustment required.

Very happy it's finally working

Short list of important tasks.
Some sort of heat fins to help keep the motor cooler.
Dual disc brakes moved up the list to become a must have.
Back rest or larger seat to provide more support for pedaling.

I will be needing new tires soon, these old rubber tires peeled a lot off just the last 2 days.

I will need new wheels also, while adjusting the spokes, many would not turn and a couple actually broke.

Does anyone know specifically where I can find some good quality 20" tires and wheels? These open hub wheels have an 1 3/8" opening for a bearing with a 5/8" (15mm) axle. the current axle powers a single wheel through a plate with 3 pins.
The amazon version does not have the holes but looks like I could drill some in. The other versions do not look like they would work at all.

Or should I just re-spoke what I have and find new rubber?

My Wheel showing the holes

silly note: as soon as I saved the message the banner ads on both sides of the page showed the Grizzly H3042 20" wheel I an eyeing at amaxon and the others that I don't think will work. - lol

 

[paul]

i imagined that scared you but good, i am always messing with my brakes. i have taken them all apart then trying to figure out how to put together however i know them now inside and out and the least little thing i can fix in minutes. all mountains here and sharp turns going down them so good brakes are very important. the magic pies regen braking help big time but i have the smart pie on and the regen breaking is minimal with it. i think part of the fun is messing with all that stuff, the horn i put on i think was a big plus. today a car was pulling out in front of me and i tapped the horn and it got his attention which was a lot easier then slamming on the breaks. he waved and said sorry and i just smiled

 

[Mike B]

Glad to hear you didn't wreck.

The best way to cool a brush type DC motor is to blow air through the motor. This is possible by drilling the endcaps and using a blower.

 

[vsavoldi]

Yeah I love the idea of cooling the motors but I'm not so confident about pulling apart the motor to drill the end caps. I'm looking for some fins similar to a CPU cooler in a PC. I could cover about 3/4 of the motor in fins which should help a lot if I can get good heat transference.

Another ride today and everything seems smooth, I'm going to head out again in a few min

I ordered some 12g spokes for my wheels, I suspect I will tackle that task in a couple weeks. Shipping is delayed due to shipping from the east coast.

I will post some current pics this evening, I made and installed a new backrest and the DC-DC converter is installed so I have lights.

 

[vsavoldi]

Wow, sorry all I didn't realize it has been so long since I posted...

The 12g spokes came in - one spoke short and an extra nipple, after a couple extra weeks I finally got the final spoke. I laced and trued up the the wheels ans re-assembled everything. Rides nice and the new spoked wheels make a ton of stability difference.

I have put on probably 60-80 miles just putting around town at about 3-4 miles per trip. I didn't want to take it too far till I was feeling more comfortable. Last week I did a 6 mile round trip with no appreciable difference in battery power.

Today the sun is out and it is quite nice. I decided to take it on a 12 mile round trip to Costco and back. No issues at all, on the way to Costco the motor performed great and was not all that warm when I got there. The trip home was nice but the motor does get a little hotter as the final mile is pretty much uphill.

I used google tracks for the ride home and much to my surprise my average speed (including stopping to take the pic below) was just over 14 mph. The top speed much to my surprise was 30 mph.

So much fun!

Next test trip will be about 20 miles round trip and I think it will have no problems.

Shooting for 35 soon!.

Extra points if you can guess where this shot is taken

 

[paul]

Beautiful ride. i can see you smiling now. i love electric
picture of Monterey Bay California

 

[silverbear]

Good to hear that the trike is working out. Looks good, too.
SB