that is the greatest trike i have ever seen i love the wood work im a fabricator myself and its why i love this forum to see so many people take so much pride in what they make because to many people are satisfied with "off the shelf" these days but your wood work is beautiful and it hides the electrics nicely also i love the stretch the frame has in it its a fantastic ride.
My 1st bike/trike/moped project ever
- Thread starter vsavoldi
- Start date
Thanks guys, I am getting excited and ready to start the next phase but 1st..
This damm connector does not seem to be working to allow me to program the controller. I just finished making sure that the controller is wired properly and that all the connections are secure and making contact. I'm updating the computer right now and going to email Kelly controllers for any additional troubleshooting steps I can take.
Also I followed up on the shellac / poly issues. Since I am using Seal Coat (non wax product) I will be fine. The manufacturers suggest to not use poly on top of waxed shellac. I have been using this de-waxed shellac as a pre-treating sealer for soft woods prior to staining. It helps eliminate the blochyness and pock marks you can get from soft woods or sappy woods. The real trick is to let everything dry before you apply the poly.
This damm connector does not seem to be working to allow me to program the controller. I just finished making sure that the controller is wired properly and that all the connections are secure and making contact. I'm updating the computer right now and going to email Kelly controllers for any additional troubleshooting steps I can take.
Also I followed up on the shellac / poly issues. Since I am using Seal Coat (non wax product) I will be fine. The manufacturers suggest to not use poly on top of waxed shellac. I have been using this de-waxed shellac as a pre-treating sealer for soft woods prior to staining. It helps eliminate the blochyness and pock marks you can get from soft woods or sappy woods. The real trick is to let everything dry before you apply the poly.
A copy of my letter to Kelly Controller, I welcome any and all ideas.
Hello, Thanks again for all your help but I seem to be having another issue.
I can not get the controller to be seen by the computer for programming.
I received everything and spent quite a lot of time setting up my wiring, as it turns out it is really pretty easy and straight forward. please let me explain what I have done and perhaps you can let me know if I made some error.
Following the schematic in the KDS manual on Page 10 - Not using a reversing Contactor.
From my 36v battery I have 2 runs, high amp and low amp.
The high amp goes to a heavy duty contact switch and for this issues we can just end it here as this switch is in the off position for programming.
The low amp line goes to a switch, from the switch it branches off to both the Main Contactor coil+ and to PWR RED Pin-9
From the controller Green Pin-4 goes to Main Contactor coil- (yes I also have the diode in place)
note: in the image it looks backwards but the red low amp wire is going to the same side of the contactor as the battery while green goes to the output side.
you can see the face of the board here.. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/soBCGwKObw1YQwhzD2JDntMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
The Battery Ground goes directly to B-
For programming the throttle wires are disconnected.
There are no other connections to the controller.
What happens:
When I connect the batteries all seems fine. As soon as I switch the low amp switch the main contactor closes. There is no noticeable delay and I don't know if there should be or not. Note: I have 38v making it to the red connector at the controller. I presume this is why the contactor is closing - presumed normal.
I installed a brand new serial to usb adapter and it loaded and looked like it is working properly inside of device manager. Using Com3 by default although I could change it if needed but I saw no documentation specifying a particular port requirement.
So I unplugged the USB from the computer, plugged in the Kelly adapter and standard serial cable, attached it to the USB/Serial adapter and plugged it into the computer. The device enumerated and appears to be working properly inside device manager.
I ran the Kelly program and selected yes to the safety prompt.
The program could not find the controller and I received an error message, check cable, make sure PWR has power, make sure to use official adapter. Everything checks out and still it can not be seen. I even unmounted my board to double check all connections and make sure I either had or did not have continuity.
Tested again, same results, controller not found.
Tested using a 2nd laptop, same results, controller not found.
After the 3rd or 4th try it appears to have broken the adapter because now the USB adapter will not be seen by either system with the controller connected or not. I tried rebooting and just connecting the adapter but nope it errors and is no longer seen by the system.
I have ordered a new and different adapter, hopefully you can point me in the right direction to not fry another adapter.
Can you send me a chart showing what should be coming out of the controller 9-pin serial connector voltage wise when powered up
Any other suggestions?
Vince
I fixed my issues with the back board, here is the current condition although I may re-do it to make it prettier...
oh and for those that want to look..
The manual to my controller.. http://kellycontroller.com/mot/downloads/KellyKDSUserManual.pdf
Hello, Thanks again for all your help but I seem to be having another issue.
I can not get the controller to be seen by the computer for programming.
I received everything and spent quite a lot of time setting up my wiring, as it turns out it is really pretty easy and straight forward. please let me explain what I have done and perhaps you can let me know if I made some error.
Following the schematic in the KDS manual on Page 10 - Not using a reversing Contactor.
From my 36v battery I have 2 runs, high amp and low amp.
The high amp goes to a heavy duty contact switch and for this issues we can just end it here as this switch is in the off position for programming.
The low amp line goes to a switch, from the switch it branches off to both the Main Contactor coil+ and to PWR RED Pin-9
From the controller Green Pin-4 goes to Main Contactor coil- (yes I also have the diode in place)
note: in the image it looks backwards but the red low amp wire is going to the same side of the contactor as the battery while green goes to the output side.
you can see the face of the board here.. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/soBCGwKObw1YQwhzD2JDntMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
The Battery Ground goes directly to B-
For programming the throttle wires are disconnected.
There are no other connections to the controller.
What happens:
When I connect the batteries all seems fine. As soon as I switch the low amp switch the main contactor closes. There is no noticeable delay and I don't know if there should be or not. Note: I have 38v making it to the red connector at the controller. I presume this is why the contactor is closing - presumed normal.
I installed a brand new serial to usb adapter and it loaded and looked like it is working properly inside of device manager. Using Com3 by default although I could change it if needed but I saw no documentation specifying a particular port requirement.
So I unplugged the USB from the computer, plugged in the Kelly adapter and standard serial cable, attached it to the USB/Serial adapter and plugged it into the computer. The device enumerated and appears to be working properly inside device manager.
I ran the Kelly program and selected yes to the safety prompt.
The program could not find the controller and I received an error message, check cable, make sure PWR has power, make sure to use official adapter. Everything checks out and still it can not be seen. I even unmounted my board to double check all connections and make sure I either had or did not have continuity.
Tested again, same results, controller not found.
Tested using a 2nd laptop, same results, controller not found.
After the 3rd or 4th try it appears to have broken the adapter because now the USB adapter will not be seen by either system with the controller connected or not. I tried rebooting and just connecting the adapter but nope it errors and is no longer seen by the system.
I have ordered a new and different adapter, hopefully you can point me in the right direction to not fry another adapter.
Can you send me a chart showing what should be coming out of the controller 9-pin serial connector voltage wise when powered up
Any other suggestions?
Vince
I fixed my issues with the back board, here is the current condition although I may re-do it to make it prettier...
oh and for those that want to look..
The manual to my controller.. http://kellycontroller.com/mot/downloads/KellyKDSUserManual.pdf
Update, Got it running, broke it, and got it going again!
Update, Got it running, broke it, and got it going again!
Well I finally got everything sorted out. The USB/Serial adapter was the main culprit. I broke down and paid the $30 with shipping for the adapter from Kelly Controllers.
I had to re-vamp the wiring a bit as the schematics showed a micro switch which I seemed to think I didn't need but as it turns out i did.
Took it out for the first testride woohoo!!
Fun for a moment... I had noticed the chain was a little noisy on the bench and 1st push to full power with load it shifted the jackshaft assembly, chewed up and spit out the drive chain. D'oh!
I took some extra time to dial in everything until I achieved smooth running on the bench. It even freewheels about 2-3 revs if I give it a good spin.
I took it out for about a mile up the road and back and came home. Not a bad 1st trip. I was going to go out again but it was getting dark and I don't have the lights hooked up yet.
Next trip I will fire up the gps tracking to see how fast it's moving along. I can tell it will be a help up hill and will maintain and possibly increase in speed on the flat.
Perhaps tomorrow afternoon I will get time to do a safety check and take it out for a 2 or 3 mile trip.
woohoo!
Update, Got it running, broke it, and got it going again!
Well I finally got everything sorted out. The USB/Serial adapter was the main culprit. I broke down and paid the $30 with shipping for the adapter from Kelly Controllers.
I had to re-vamp the wiring a bit as the schematics showed a micro switch which I seemed to think I didn't need but as it turns out i did.
Took it out for the first testride woohoo!!
Fun for a moment... I had noticed the chain was a little noisy on the bench and 1st push to full power with load it shifted the jackshaft assembly, chewed up and spit out the drive chain. D'oh!
I took some extra time to dial in everything until I achieved smooth running on the bench. It even freewheels about 2-3 revs if I give it a good spin.
I took it out for about a mile up the road and back and came home. Not a bad 1st trip. I was going to go out again but it was getting dark and I don't have the lights hooked up yet.
Next trip I will fire up the gps tracking to see how fast it's moving along. I can tell it will be a help up hill and will maintain and possibly increase in speed on the flat.
Perhaps tomorrow afternoon I will get time to do a safety check and take it out for a 2 or 3 mile trip.
woohoo!
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thats exciting vsa. they are a blast that is for sure. glad you are getting everything worked out
Sounds good!
Nothing like that feeling when you give it the juice the first time and it takes off -
Nothing like that feeling when you give it the juice the first time and it takes off -
Yep, it was fun, I took a little ride yesterday. Top speed on a slight downhill 26mph when I decided that was quite fast enough for this setup.
It can maintain 19 mph on the flat with about 1/2 throttle but I still need to dial that in a bit, hopefully I will have time this weekend.
I did throw the motor drive chain again, and while pedaling home tossed the bike jackshaft drive chain. I have not put it on the bench yet to find out exactly everything that happened. It was fun though for the few miles I got on it.
I was very lucky (partially by design) that after the chain went I was within about 50 ft of downhill all the way home so I was able to coast in.
Whew..
It can maintain 19 mph on the flat with about 1/2 throttle but I still need to dial that in a bit, hopefully I will have time this weekend.
I did throw the motor drive chain again, and while pedaling home tossed the bike jackshaft drive chain. I have not put it on the bench yet to find out exactly everything that happened. It was fun though for the few miles I got on it.
I was very lucky (partially by design) that after the chain went I was within about 50 ft of downhill all the way home so I was able to coast in.
Whew..
I think you have so much tension in the chains that it causing the supports to bend and the sprockets go out of alignment as well as causing slack in the chain.
That thing is really heavy and to get the performance you are getting requires a lot of force.
That thing is really heavy and to get the performance you are getting requires a lot of force.
Yeah Mike, you may be on to something I was going around a corner when the chain broke. When looking at axle flex I seem to have a lot of flex if I tweek the tires top/bottom but very little if I tweek from front /back. so cornering seems to flex the axle which could easily cause the sprockets to become mis-aligned and poof - tossed chain.
I got the trike up on the bench (no small task) and checked it out. The motor jackshaft to axle chain tossed the master link. I really do not like the links on this #25 chain the retainers are to flimsy. Everything else looks good so I suspect it was caused by the sprocket from the axle flex. I have a fix but it adds some drag so I need to figure that one out.
As for the pedal jackshaft chain I believe it is terminal, the front sprocket sits so close to the cassette that the chains have some interference. I thought that perhaps a little tapping would not be too bad but I am wrong once again. Lessons the hard way...
It is the only chain and gearset I have not replaced so I guess a new jackshaft is in order.
Anyone have any good pointers? I have a brand new 5 speed cassette rear axle is 15mm or 5/8" the existing shaft is a bike rear hub with the extra sprocket welded to the flange inside of the cassette I would just as soon replace both sprockets and a new freewheel/cassette adapter. is that best?
Here is a link to a video after I put everything back together and did a bench run. I hit power with the brakes on a few times, then I dragged the brakes for a few seconds of drag time, then freewheeling to top rpm for a few seconds then I let it run out.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/L-RVxSM6rs_PhBvv_2ffA9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
I was surprised by the amount of forces actually seen in the vid.
Off to more research...
Vince
I got the trike up on the bench (no small task) and checked it out. The motor jackshaft to axle chain tossed the master link. I really do not like the links on this #25 chain the retainers are to flimsy. Everything else looks good so I suspect it was caused by the sprocket from the axle flex. I have a fix but it adds some drag so I need to figure that one out.
As for the pedal jackshaft chain I believe it is terminal, the front sprocket sits so close to the cassette that the chains have some interference. I thought that perhaps a little tapping would not be too bad but I am wrong once again.
Lessons the hard way...It is the only chain and gearset I have not replaced so I guess a new jackshaft is in order.
Anyone have any good pointers? I have a brand new 5 speed cassette rear axle is 15mm or 5/8" the existing shaft is a bike rear hub with the extra sprocket welded to the flange inside of the cassette I would just as soon replace both sprockets and a new freewheel/cassette adapter. is that best?
Here is a link to a video after I put everything back together and did a bench run. I hit power with the brakes on a few times, then I dragged the brakes for a few seconds of drag time, then freewheeling to top rpm for a few seconds then I let it run out.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/L-RVxSM6rs_PhBvv_2ffA9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
I was surprised by the amount of forces actually seen in the vid.
Off to more research...
Vince
Yeah Mike I was thinking the same thing, #25 chain seems to be rated right at about the limit of a 1000W DC motor which leaves very little wiggle room...
Well, My money pit is costing me even more. After I got the current problems sorted out I took it out for another ride. I actually made a big mistake and cranked up the controller to see what the motor would do. I wanted to stress the chain and sprockets and jackshafts. They all did did real well until I smoked the motor. D'oh!
I now know the upper limit of this motor, too bad it's trash. It was actually able to pull me up a small hill and gain speed on a slight incline. My guess is that the top speed on the flat would have been right at 19 mph.
Since I currently have 3 batteries and PM controller for 36v I need to stay at 36v and PM motor. I would really like a stronger motor but it seems that all I can find are 1000W or less. Does anyone make at 1500W motor?
Well, My money pit is costing me even more. After I got the current problems sorted out I took it out for another ride. I actually made a big mistake and cranked up the controller to see what the motor would do. I wanted to stress the chain and sprockets and jackshafts. They all did did real well until I smoked the motor. D'oh!
I now know the upper limit of this motor, too bad it's trash. It was actually able to pull me up a small hill and gain speed on a slight incline. My guess is that the top speed on the flat would have been right at 19 mph.
Since I currently have 3 batteries and PM controller for 36v I need to stay at 36v and PM motor. I would really like a stronger motor but it seems that all I can find are 1000W or less. Does anyone make at 1500W motor?
You want torque - power (as I've said before) you can get , simply by putting one more battery in series (increasing the Voltage , because W= V x A). In your quest for a new motor - look at torque ratings and graphs. There are motors (for bicycle&tricycle) rated at few KW , if needed. Regarding chain and sprockets - look for something that came out of some scooter or motorbike , because of weight of your tricycle (especially with stronger motor). I'll try to find some suitable motors later (links)...
Thanks Zabac, I appreciate helpful posts.
I look forward to what you may find
Unfortunately I can't go to 48 volts right now due to the controller I have. I know now that I should have waited and done a ton more research before I started ordering anything.
I was pretty much ok with the small power assist I had running at safe amps. The excessive amps setting was a touch nicer till I smoked the motor (darn these things stink once you "let the smoke out" -lol love that tag line...
I do actually worry that If I over power it I may want to never pedal so I am really interested in keeping the power at a spot where I do need to pedal to get going and to help it up hill and even during acceleration.
I scoped out a 36v 1000w motor on ebay last night. I have a feeling that the 1000w may be just right based on my testing with this smoked 750w motor. I am curious to know what the differences between 48v 1000W and 36v 1000W.
Should I buy a motor rated 48v even though I am only pumping 36v into it? This would allow me to add another battery in the future if I upgrade the controller. Or would the 48v motor have less power at 36v than a motor rated at 36v presuming both are rated at 1000w?
I have been looking at even larger motors but it seems that there is a gap from between the 1000w motors and the >5000w sizes for motorcycles and golf carts. All of the larger motors seem to be in the 20lb range which the power will offset but I really worry about the weight it is carrying now.
I look forward to what you may find
Unfortunately I can't go to 48 volts right now due to the controller I have. I know now that I should have waited and done a ton more research before I started ordering anything.
I was pretty much ok with the small power assist I had running at safe amps. The excessive amps setting was a touch nicer till I smoked the motor (darn these things stink once you "let the smoke out" -lol love that tag line...
I do actually worry that If I over power it I may want to never pedal so I am really interested in keeping the power at a spot where I do need to pedal to get going and to help it up hill and even during acceleration.
I scoped out a 36v 1000w motor on ebay last night. I have a feeling that the 1000w may be just right based on my testing with this smoked 750w motor. I am curious to know what the differences between 48v 1000W and 36v 1000W.
Should I buy a motor rated 48v even though I am only pumping 36v into it? This would allow me to add another battery in the future if I upgrade the controller. Or would the 48v motor have less power at 36v than a motor rated at 36v presuming both are rated at 1000w?
I have been looking at even larger motors but it seems that there is a gap from between the 1000w motors and the >5000w sizes for motorcycles and golf carts. All of the larger motors seem to be in the 20lb range which the power will offset but I really worry about the weight it is carrying now.
I bought one of these for my electric mini-bike project. It's well made and very beefy. Will run off a 1 D cell battery, pretty efficient.
Haven't run it on a vechicle yet.
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/MAG-C40-300.html
Haven't run it on a vechicle yet.
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/MAG-C40-300.html
I haven't had the time to look for motors , but I will (hopefully) today. First , I need to address questions you raised , just to prevent you to make another mistake. Let us start from beginning. Average person can produce power of app. 250 W (of course that is very individual , but we'll use that , for argument sake). Your weight is (don't be offended , this is just an illustration) 200 lb and you you use 250 W to move around. If you double your weight (meaning, sit on your trike) , you'll guess that you'll need twice the power to move; WRONG ! You'll need the square of initial power to move in the same way and speed. If we are talking about electric motors that translates not only to power , but to torque too (which depends of design of the motor).
Current (Amps) is responsible for burnt motors , because if motor doesn't have the power to gain RPM (dictated by amount of Volts and pulses) it pulls more Amps (remember the equation W=V x A) to compensate , and that causes internal heating , which melts the insulation on the wires...(don't want to be to elaborate on this , there are other factors). Basically , that means , that if you ride your heavy bike (starting to move) , motor will always be at peak Amps that it can handle and something will die (wires or controller) rather soon than later. You are trying to control max speed by using 36 V setup and motor which always works at strain (because of the weight - doesn't mean that it wouldn't work fine with lighter vehicle). You can limit your top speed just as easily by using motor that has lower rpm rating per Volt and bigger torque , with LESS Amps (and there is a transmission too). You CAN overVolt the motor (it'll just spin quicker and use less Amps), but you CAN'T underVolt it , because it'll try to compensate Volts with Amps , and we know what happens than. So 48 V motor on the 36 V setup is big NO , and vice verso , you can use 36 V motor on a 48 V setup. Pedal assist is always possible and if your motor doesn't needs it , order yourself to pedal on flats , without electric power (use it when you're tired). Of course , you can adjust low amperage on controller to shut out (meaning to force you to pedal) but that can be very annoying and can cause problems when you really need it to work.
MikeB found fine example (27.12 newton meters , which is 3840 oz-in) of relatively small torqy motor , but I would look for something close to double of that , bearing in mind weight that it needs to start from stand still (usually that means bigger diameter of the motor , which provides bigger angular momentum , but nobody wants to get into physics ). I'll try to find some links later today , which will be fine for your trike (in my opinion) and not to expensive. Bear in mind (I've posted that earlier in the thread) that you need to decide on a whole system regarding the voltage and if you want to gradually upgrade the system , that means that you have to buy more expensive components (read: adjustable controller). Sorry for long post and all this philosophy , but it is better to read a little , than to cash out more
Current (Amps) is responsible for burnt motors , because if motor doesn't have the power to gain RPM (dictated by amount of Volts and pulses) it pulls more Amps (remember the equation W=V x A) to compensate , and that causes internal heating , which melts the insulation on the wires...(don't want to be to elaborate on this , there are other factors). Basically , that means , that if you ride your heavy bike (starting to move) , motor will always be at peak Amps that it can handle and something will die (wires or controller) rather soon than later. You are trying to control max speed by using 36 V setup and motor which always works at strain (because of the weight - doesn't mean that it wouldn't work fine with lighter vehicle). You can limit your top speed just as easily by using motor that has lower rpm rating per Volt and bigger torque , with LESS Amps (and there is a transmission too). You CAN overVolt the motor (it'll just spin quicker and use less Amps), but you CAN'T underVolt it , because it'll try to compensate Volts with Amps , and we know what happens than. So 48 V motor on the 36 V setup is big NO , and vice verso , you can use 36 V motor on a 48 V setup. Pedal assist is always possible and if your motor doesn't needs it , order yourself to pedal on flats , without electric power (use it when you're tired). Of course , you can adjust low amperage on controller to shut out (meaning to force you to pedal) but that can be very annoying and can cause problems when you really need it to work.
MikeB found fine example (27.12 newton meters , which is 3840 oz-in) of relatively small torqy motor , but I would look for something close to double of that , bearing in mind weight that it needs to start from stand still (usually that means bigger diameter of the motor , which provides bigger angular momentum , but nobody wants to get into physics
). I'll try to find some links later today , which will be fine for your trike (in my opinion) and not to expensive. Bear in mind (I've posted that earlier in the thread) that you need to decide on a whole system regarding the voltage and if you want to gradually upgrade the system , that means that you have to buy more expensive components (read: adjustable controller). Sorry for long post and all this philosophy , but it is better to read a little , than to cash out more 
Nice project and a great thread. If it is any comfort to you, I'm sure that your wrong turns and eventual right turns will be helpful to a number of people down the line.
SB
SB
Thanks Silverbear, yeah I hope to get a great synopsis once it's complete to help others with similar issues. I have learned a lot form this forum and hope to pay back just a touch.
Zabac, Great information!!!
The best part is it all makes sense to me now, I look forward to whatever you may find to suggest.
I am very budget concerned although if I had done about 30 days more research at the beginning I could easily have put together an overall better system.
I am kind of curious as to what you think about the following...
I have located a golf cart motor (5hp), it is way overkill for my needs. It is rated at 36v and 400a. If I were to do something like this would it be very inefficient since I would only need to pump say 50-75 amps? This motor is pretty big @20 lbs so I am not inclined to use it unless there are compelling reasons to have an over powered motor. I am also interested in any reasons to not do something like this?
I have looked at a ton of power curves for DC motors but I have not seen anything showing power usage at varying load levels. I would really love to see some charts on how efficient DC motors are at various loads/rpm/amps/power.
Oh My Oh My..... I've built a fat little piggy for my big old self..
I stuck my bathroom scale under the rear end to see how much the rig weighs... Just about 100 lbs overall for just the trike/batteries/motor/etc... Ouchies that's a little more than I thought. Once I add my 275 lbs were at 375 lbs. If I toss my dog on there it jumps another 60lbs to 435lbs thats a lot of work load. p.s. no wonder it is so hard to pedal uphill.. lol
Zabac, Great information!!!
The best part is it all makes sense to me now, I look forward to whatever you may find to suggest.
I am very budget concerned although if I had done about 30 days more research at the beginning I could easily have put together an overall better system.
I am kind of curious as to what you think about the following...
I have located a golf cart motor (5hp), it is way overkill for my needs. It is rated at 36v and 400a. If I were to do something like this would it be very inefficient since I would only need to pump say 50-75 amps? This motor is pretty big @20 lbs so I am not inclined to use it unless there are compelling reasons to have an over powered motor. I am also interested in any reasons to not do something like this?
I have looked at a ton of power curves for DC motors but I have not seen anything showing power usage at varying load levels. I would really love to see some charts on how efficient DC motors are at various loads/rpm/amps/power.
Oh My Oh My..... I've built a fat little piggy for my big old self..
I stuck my bathroom scale under the rear end to see how much the rig weighs... Just about 100 lbs overall for just the trike/batteries/motor/etc... Ouchies that's a little more than I thought. Once I add my 275 lbs were at 375 lbs. If I toss my dog on there it jumps another 60lbs to 435lbs thats a lot of work load. p.s. no wonder it is so hard to pedal uphill.. lol
Grab that forklift motor (if the price is right) and don't think a minute more. Though , I can't understand how it is rated at "5 HP" because 36 V at 400 A is 14400 W (14,4 KW) , which in electric terms is around 50-60 HP. You can compensate that weight, with lighter battery pack (Lithium) , which you will do one day (rather sooner , than later , hopefully). You can rest easy , without thinking of burnt wires, or overheating, or cooling, or similar stupid things, that ordinary EV mortals thinking about. And you can use 48 V system without any problem also. If the weight might be a reason to pass by this motor , you've missed that train , when you reached for first bent steel pipe for your frame and started welding it Lighter equivalent you can get only in hi price range (I mean really hi - few K$) and those are permanent magnet hi end, exotic material, for special purposes (EV's), military , NASA kind of motors...Anything that weighs 5-10 lbs is from RC world (with this kind of power) , which is OK , but needs VERY elaborate gearing and cooling (which means more $$$). Definitely you won't find (in budget concerning world) anything similar to your late motor , with performance needed for your trike and light weight . Reason is simple - more Amps means more copper in the motor (thicker wires) , and copper is heavy. Casing , if Aluminum , is expensive , so you're stuck with good ol' heavy weight technology. You can also consider mounting some kind of hub motor (there is illustration, in one link below) because they tend to have more torque than the similar (power vise) "classic" motors , or you can consider to use any motor from junk yard you can find and "custom wind" it (well - professional should do that for you). When I say budget - anything of the above will test your wallet , because that will "pull" other expenses , and I'm talking about different controller first(you would need a smart one/expensive one , because it'll serve as test benchmark , so you'll be able to program it for different configurations) , and the battery technology second (Lithiums are smiling in your direction) , because you'll need more juice out of the same capacity (those can be discharged almost 98% and in higher rate of discharge - few times more). If you check few pages back , in this thread, I said that any half decent electric system costs around 1500 $ for el. bikes(trikes). Now, don't kill the messenger , it's just a way it is (so far). As I posted previously , Mike B offered possible solution to this problem - considering torque (you should check if they have a 36 V versions). I'll try to find some more links later , but I was busy (hectic) all day , and I haven't done a good job with this search...
http://www.goldenmotor.com/ I can imagine this on your trike...
http://abc.eznettools.net/D300013/X300109/eTrike2.html (Just to check out options and solutions) , and something to look at (didn't had the time for detail reading)
There is a tone of manufacturers from China , but it's hard to find one who will take one piece(motor) order , but they have excellent options...
As for power curves - unless you know exactly what you looking for - it doesn't mean anything , especially because different types and designs of DC motors (brushed , brush less , in runner , out runner(hub) , 3 phase , x phase etc...). All you need to see from torque curve is between 0 and 1000 RPM
Lighter equivalent you can get only in hi price range (I mean really hi - few K$) and those are permanent magnet hi end, exotic material, for special purposes (EV's), military , NASA kind of motors...Anything that weighs 5-10 lbs is from RC world (with this kind of power) , which is OK , but needs VERY elaborate gearing and cooling (which means more $$$). Definitely you won't find (in budget concerning world) anything similar to your late motor , with performance needed for your trike and light weight . Reason is simple - more Amps means more copper in the motor (thicker wires) , and copper is heavy. Casing , if Aluminum , is expensive , so you're stuck with good ol' heavy weight technology. You can also consider mounting some kind of hub motor (there is illustration, in one link below) because they tend to have more torque than the similar (power vise) "classic" motors , or you can consider to use any motor from junk yard you can find and "custom wind" it (well - professional should do that for you). When I say budget - anything of the above will test your wallet , because that will "pull" other expenses , and I'm talking about different controller first(you would need a smart one/expensive one , because it'll serve as test benchmark , so you'll be able to program it for different configurations) , and the battery technology second (Lithiums are smiling in your direction) , because you'll need more juice out of the same capacity (those can be discharged almost 98% and in higher rate of discharge - few times more). If you check few pages back , in this thread, I said that any half decent electric system costs around 1500 $ for el. bikes(trikes). Now, don't kill the messenger , it's just a way it is (so far). As I posted previously , Mike B offered possible solution to this problem - considering torque (you should check if they have a 36 V versions). I'll try to find some more links later , but I was busy (hectic) all day , and I haven't done a good job with this search...http://www.goldenmotor.com/ I can imagine this on your trike...
http://abc.eznettools.net/D300013/X300109/eTrike2.html (Just to check out options and solutions) , and something to look at (didn't had the time for detail reading)
There is a tone of manufacturers from China , but it's hard to find one who will take one piece(motor) order , but they have excellent options...
As for power curves - unless you know exactly what you looking for - it doesn't mean anything , especially because different types and designs of DC motors (brushed , brush less , in runner , out runner(hub) , 3 phase , x phase etc...). All you need to see from torque curve is between 0 and 1000 RPM
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14.4 KW is 19 HP.
Which is probabily peak.
Yeah, about 5 HP continuous.
If you can get it at a good price go for it.
Which is probabily peak.
Yeah, about 5 HP continuous.
If you can get it at a good price go for it.
Yep, missed out on the good deal bigger motor but I see others used and new from $250-$800 then $2500 +++ Most of them are rather large and I'm not 100% sure how I could mount one without killing the look.
It seems like every time I search I get differing results some good some bad. I dropped a $50 bid on a Curry 1000w and I am watching a couple others. Basically they are still the scooter motors I just really hate to think of biting the bullet to get a $500+ motor. I also know that eventually I may do just that but I am into pre-winter savings and shouldn't be spending money.
I looked into the golden motor hubs when I started the project thinking on doing just a front tire. This seemed to be the easiest answer as it's was pretty much mount and go. But I didn't really like the look of the hub front tire for this project.
I am thinking my next project may be a dual magic pie on a nice frame with a LiFePo4 battery pack for a friend, he's getting excited but does not have the skills to do the work.
I even contacted Golden Motor to see if there was some way to do a dual rear wheel drive without making a frame outside the tire (I love the open wheels) using a "Mono Shaft hub" design to no avail but at least it is still something to think about if I want to frame it in .
I also have also been thinking of looking into the possibility of using a powered hub to just drive a chain to the rear axle. Oscar from Golden Motor suggested the Magic Pie 3 as having the power needed but I am dubious as I am not sure he understands the weight.
It seems like every time I search I get differing results some good some bad. I dropped a $50 bid on a Curry 1000w and I am watching a couple others. Basically they are still the scooter motors I just really hate to think of biting the bullet to get a $500+ motor. I also know that eventually I may do just that but I am into pre-winter savings and shouldn't be spending money.
I looked into the golden motor hubs when I started the project thinking on doing just a front tire. This seemed to be the easiest answer as it's was pretty much mount and go. But I didn't really like the look of the hub front tire for this project.
I am thinking my next project may be a dual magic pie on a nice frame with a LiFePo4 battery pack for a friend, he's getting excited but does not have the skills to do the work.
I even contacted Golden Motor to see if there was some way to do a dual rear wheel drive without making a frame outside the tire (I love the open wheels) using a "Mono Shaft hub" design to no avail but at least it is still something to think about if I want to frame it in .
I also have also been thinking of looking into the possibility of using a powered hub to just drive a chain to the rear axle. Oscar from Golden Motor suggested the Magic Pie 3 as having the power needed but I am dubious as I am not sure he understands the weight.