multi-speeds

[RedRider48]

Hi Guys,
I'm very new to the motor assisted bicycle scene. I'm looking for a bike I like and found this...
But it's a multi-speed. Not sure how multi-speed hubs play with a centrifugal clutch?
Otherwise, the mechanicals seem pretty nice.
Here's a link to the specs....
http://www.revolutionbikeshop.com/2013-felt-bicycles-heritage/

 

[KCvale]

Cent clutch? So you are direct driving a 4-stroke?
No problems with that bike and actually a bonus, you can use the gears to help pedal with the engine drive.

 

[RedRider48]

Cent clutch? So you are direct driving a 4-stroke?
No problems with that bike and actually a bonus, you can use the gears to help pedal with the engine drive.

Hi,
First, I'm very new to the motorized bike scene. I've been looking for a frame style and found many with multi speed hubs. Haven't picked an engine type. Does the use of 2 or 4 stroke figure in to my consideration of a multi-speed vs. a single speed hub?
When you mention "direct driving a 4-stroke". What does this mean?
Apologies for the hand holding.

Well, curiosity got the better of me, so I looked through the KC link and see where the use of a "jack shaft" setup will allow the use of a multi speed bike.
This causes me to ask if this limits me to 2 stroke engines only due to engine layouts?

 

[KCvale]

Hi,
Well, curiosity got the better of me, so I looked through the KC link and see where the use of a "jack shaft" setup will allow the use of a multi speed bike.
This causes me to ask if this limits me to 2 stroke engines only due to engine layouts?

Nope, there are 2-stroke and 4-stroke jackshaft kits, this is a recent 7-speed 4-stroke shifter.

If you have the funds then a 4-stroke direct drive is the easiest to build and operate and we really like the HS 49cc HS with new 4G transfer case from gasbike.net for $350 here in the shop, they are pretty easy to build and a joy to ride.

For a 4-stroke you want a big bicycle center cavity and even though the 29" Macargi Fatal Love is just a coaster brake beach cruiser the 49cc's grunt power loves those 29" wheels and it will do 30+ MPH once you wind it up.

You can fit darn near fit anything them like this one a 79cc Predator 4-stroke and Q-matic transfer case.

You are looking about $600 for a 49cc 4-stroke Fatal like my example.

The Fatal Love makes a poor choice for 2-stroke however.

If you budget is smaller then I suggest you build a simple 2-stroke direct drive first, it takes the least amount of money, skill and special tools to accomplish and with that 7-speed hub you should be able to mount the rear sprocket easier than on a single speed beach cruiser, at least they are on a Pantera 7s, the sprocket pretty much aligns itself.

There are all kinds of options for building.
To asses what your needs are, the top 3 are mechanical skill/tools, stature/needs, and of course your budget.

For example if your tool box has nothing even close to new and your favorite tools are a crescent wrench and pliers factor in a set of new tools in metric and a challenge.

For stature and needs how far do you generally travel per trip 1 way, the terrain, and your inseam/weight as those help determine a bike you can ride and engine type.

Jot down all of those on paper first and that will give you a compass to figure out what would be best for you ;-}

 

[RedRider48]

Nope, there are 2-stroke and 4-stroke jackshaft kits, this is a recent 7-speed 4-stroke shifter.

If you have the funds then a 4-stroke direct drive is the easiest to build and operate and we really like the HS 49cc HS with new 4G transfer case from gasbike.net for $350 here in the shop, they are pretty easy to build and a joy to ride.

For a 4-stroke you want a big bicycle center cavity and even though the 29" Macargi Fatal Love is just a coaster brake beach cruiser the 49cc's grunt power loves those 29" wheels and it will do 30+ MPH once you wind it up.

You can fit darn near fit anything them like this one a 79cc Predator 4-stroke and Q-matic transfer case.

You are looking about $600 for a 49cc 4-stroke Fatal like my example.

The Fatal Love makes a poor choice for 2-stroke however.

If you budget is smaller then I suggest you build a simple 2-stroke direct drive first, it takes the least amount of money, skill and special tools to accomplish and with that 7-speed hub you should be able to mount the rear sprocket easier than on a single speed beach cruiser, at least they are on a Pantera 7s, the sprocket pretty much aligns itself.

There are all kinds of options for building.
To asses what your needs are, the top 3 are mechanical skill/tools, stature/needs, and of course your budget.

For example if your tool box has nothing even close to new and your favorite tools are a crescent wrench and pliers factor in a set of new tools in metric and a challenge.

For stature and needs how far do you generally travel per trip 1 way, the terrain, and your inseam/weight as those help determine a bike you can ride and engine type.

Jot down all of those on paper first and that will give you a compass to figure out what would be best for you ;-}

Wow! Thanks for your generous reply.
I'll look through all of these links. I have all the tools necessary, including a MIG ,Plasma cutter and an arsenal of mechanics hand tools both metric and SAE. My riding style is strictly recreational with a few slight hills. As far as stature/weight I weigh in the middle 170s and am average height (5-9"). My skills are such, that I have completed a number of restos, involving vintage vespas, classic cars, a few Austrian lightweight motorcycles etc.
My most recent resto a '65 Allstate PUCH 250. ....
Here's the before.....sq tank version, then the round tank I completed.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

The primary advantage of a shift kit is if you're a large person and live where there's steep hills. This way you have gear ratios to get you up the hills, gears for level ground and gears for down hill. Shift kits really help a lot for engines under 50 cc for large riders in steep hill country.

 

[RedRider48]

The primary advantage of a shift kit is if you're a large person and live where there's steep hills. This way you have gear ratios to get you up the hills, gears for level ground and gears for down hill. Shift kits really help a lot for engines under 50 cc for large riders in steep hill country.

Hi,
As it turns out, I'm a lightweight at 174-178 depending on how far into the winter months I go. LOL!
I wasn't sure the multi-speeds were usable. I have a multi gear bike now, that, I might just buy a good quality 4 cycle power plant and transmission and have at it. Then, I'll transfer it to a more classic bike style.
Thanks for your input.

 

[KCvale]

Even a shift kit first build should be easy for you Red, sounds like you have the tools and talent to pull it off well ;-}

Two notes about engine power on a bicycle drive train...

1. Go with the HD crank arm freewheel for about $60, not the cheap $20 ones, they fail pretty easy.

2. The literal 'weak link' in the system is the final drive chain and why if possible I try to use an internally geared hub.
Besides being able to use a strong HD 410 chain it is a fixed sprocket to sprocket connection and not bending the chain one way or the other from center for the high and low gears throwing off chain alignment.

Besides I have yet to build anything that a 3-speed wouldn't have done as well if not better.

If you must use a derailleur a 5-speed is best but don't bother with anything over a standard 7 as the chain gets so thin it simply can't take it and they fail.

I find I only use the even numbered gears 2-4-6 on a 7-speed as it is because even a little stock 48cc 2-stroke has the power to cover 2-3 gear ratios without needing a shift and though it sounds cool to use all the gears it's really not fun at all after awhile.

In short regardless of drive train there is an art to riding a bicycle shifter, you need to get a feel for it because at least in my experience the main failures occur when you downshift to a lower gear and then lay on the throttle and it doesn't engage until you are near max RPM and *slam*, you break a chain or toast a hub.

Good luck with your build Red and I'm glad I could help with some basics ;-}

 

[wheelbender6]

I like your avatar, RR48. I have a 125cc scooter that I ride to work on occasion.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

I like using a Sram 890 bicycle chain. My shift kit is a Staton Inc double freewheel. Both freewheels are White Industries Trails. The Staton Inc SK allows the peddles to operate independently of the engine drive. If you use a two stroke you'd have to install a pull start. You could also install a centrifugal clutch and this would eliminate a clutch lever off your handle bars. The Staton SK has the engine chain ring and you can put on 3 more rings to drive the rear gears. Here is how I shift a 21 speed bike. 1(1,2,3); 2(3,4,5); 3(5,6,7). So the only time you shift the front gears is when either in 3 or 5 in the rear. This is like having a 9 speed bike. This method of shifting eliminates gear redundancy, cross chaining and chain droop. I'm going to be building a manual shift bike soon here is how the gears will be used: 1(1,2,3) uphill; 2(3,4,5), 3(5) level ground; 3(6,7) overdrive downhill. When shifting you'd want to let off the gas then peddle it into gear, then add gas. Get a tachometer this will help in knowing when to change gears.

 

[RedRider48]

Even a shift kit first build should be easy for you Red, sounds like you have the tools and talent to pull it off well ;-}

Two notes about engine power on a bicycle drive train...

1. Go with the HD crank arm freewheel for about $60, not the cheap $20 ones, they fail pretty easy.

2. The literal 'weak link' in the system is the final drive chain and why if possible I try to use an internally geared hub.
Besides being able to use a strong HD 410 chain it is a fixed sprocket to sprocket connection and not bending the chain one way or the other from center for the high and low gears throwing off chain alignment.

Besides I have yet to build anything that a 3-speed wouldn't have done as well if not better.

If you must use a derailleur a 5-speed is best but don't bother with anything over a standard 7 as the chain gets so thin it simply can't take it and they fail.

I find I only use the even numbered gears 2-4-6 on a 7-speed as it is because even a little stock 48cc 2-stroke has the power to cover 2-3 gear ratios without needing a shift and though it sounds cool to use all the gears it's really not fun at all after awhile.

In short regardless of drive train there is an art to riding a bicycle shifter, you need to get a feel for it because at least in my experience the main failures occur when you downshift to a lower gear and then lay on the throttle and it doesn't engage until you are near max RPM and *slam*, you break a chain or toast a hub.

Good luck with your build Red and I'm glad I could help with some basics ;-}

Hi KC,
All great points! I too, have read where the derailleur system is suspect when shifting, as powered by an engine. One has to use caution under pedal power. I've read about the internal gear hub changing system. In fact, I'm going to ask my local bike shop about converting my rear wheel to that system. Not sure if I mentioned it, but These Arette's have a two speed sprocket as wheel and a 7 speed derailleur as part of the grip (pics)
So, how does that work with a throttle and clutch for the engine?

 

[RedRider48]

I like your avatar, RR48. I have a 125cc scooter that I ride to work on occasion.

Kool! What is it? Mine are early 60s and were sold through the Sears catalog.

 

[Ghost0]

Well I find regular derailleurs to be more bullet proof than the internal hubs and that is also the feedback we get from most of our customers. But as KC said there is an art to shifting and no matter if your are using a derailleur or internal hub you can break either with incorrect use. Just remember it is not a motorcycle. Yes shifting is great and I would never ride a bike that I couldn't shift gears on but abuse will ruin anything.

 

[kevyleven007]

That bike looks excellent! I would suggest a 2 stroke direct drive or 4 stroke direct drive. You don't really need a shifter kit. I would wait until you break it in and then decide if you want one.