Miele 18" motor-assist MTB build.

[HackD]

This build thread is going to likely end up being a long one.

I'm also a very wordy bastard - so if that irritates you, just skip to the pictures.

I put together a build some years back, utilizing a 66cc China Girl in an obsolete (I had gotten a dirt-cheap fully suspended MTB to replace it) early 90's Nishiki Navajo 21" rigid MTB frame. I've played with it on and off in the past few years, but due to health issues i hadn't really rolled on the kilometers all that much. The Nishiki build was not as ideal as i would have liked it though - style wise, braking wise, and suspension wise - but it was a good start, and the MA-MTB bug has definitely bit hard.

So this winter, I'll be working on MA-MTB MarkII, based upon an entry-level Miele UA261 18" Hybrid MTB frame, with SR Suntour front suspension, disc brakes front and back (hopefully), also based upon a 66cc China Girl (looking to pick up a Grubee Skyhawk in mid-November). I have a parts motor on hand to start working on things like motor-mounts, ahead of that. I picked the MTB up off of Kijiji.ca for a pretty good deal - all of it's sticker decals were pretty roached, but the bike itself was clean. Although i am 5'11", i was looking for a more compact chassis MTB to motorize, and this fits the bill, nicely. Cleaning the stickers off was the first incremental step to be taken.

The original plan was to cannibalize the Nishiki for all necessary parts to get started - but i'm going to leave well enough alone on that, and leave it useable and rideable. It's still got functional purpose, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Dave31's build of his Hardrock, among others, will be a good source of inspiration, in the coming winter months.

 

[2door]

We'll keep watching, Hack. And welcome to the forum.

Good luck with the project. Sounds interesting. Let us know how the rear disc brake thing works for you. I've been playing with some ideas for that lately. I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with.

Tom

 

[Dave31]

That is going to be a nice ride HackD. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

 

[HackD]

Currently struggling, and waffling with the aspirations of this build, vs the economic realities of being pretty frickin' tight on cash this winter, as well as ongoing space issues that will be complicated further if i build an additional MA-MTB .. At present, I have three bicycles potentially at my disposal, for this build:

1 - This 18" Miele project - which i'd like to build up to the specs that i desire, and missed out in doing the Nishiki the first go-around.

2 - The already built MA-MTB based on the Nishiki 21" frame, that will likely be surplus to my needs, under-used, and possibly quite neglected once this build is done.

3 - A Raleigh fully-suspended MTB, with a fair amount of good, better than average quality bits on her, that could be switched and swapped fairly readily between the other two, to use on the Miele MA-MTB Mk2 version. In all honesty, i just haven't used the Raleigh all that much over the past few years due to my hip-replacement issues, as an un-powered MTB - I am, after all, justifying going MA-MTB because of those issues! I had also picked it up for $40.00 (a pittance), which is parts-bike pricing. I could justify 'sacrificing it' for components, for the greater good.

The question arises also, is do i really need three bicycles cluttering up a single car garage, competing for space with a full-sized sidecar rig, a few Honda small-displacement motorcycles, an ATV, and enough other-project clutter to keep me busy into the next 20 years? 1st World Problems, I know - but the reality is, that I may also benefit from doing a parts donation to the local bike co-op in order to clean some space up, once this project is done to my satisfaction.

On the other side of things - I did pick up the first few necessary things for the new build on pay-day - a wider, comfy "Bontrager" gel-foam touring saddle, and a set of bar-end mirrors. A few other things were also eyeballed, and noted to pick up for the build in the coming weeks/months, while i was at the bike shop.

Apologies for this posting spewage .. a bit of a brain-dump of sorts, of where i'm at as of this weekend..

 

[HackD]

I taped the frame up tonight, and started eyeballing/playing with my parts-motor in the frame a bit.

In my opinion, as far as the scale of the motor is in relation to the size of the frame, and the geometry of the frame tubes is in relation to the existing motor mounts goes, it is aesthetically and geometrically ideal. Exactly what i'm looking for, in this second version build.

The front engine-case mount base, however, is the farthest from my ideal.

To make this work, it's going to require a significant engine-case mount base modification, and an entirely different solution for a front frame-mount to be built up.

The rear frame mount segment can also be shortened up significantly, to bring it up fairly tight against the rear frame tube.

I have the tools, and the time.

This is gonna be fun.

 

[HackD]

Not much in the way of progress yet, i'm afraid.

Still struggling with in-decisions.

Was eyeballing the stock-handlebars - too narrow at 22.5". Next step up handlebars available to interchange off of another MTB - 23.5". The Nishiki has 24" bars, which barely fit everything to go on the bike with the addition of MAB levers and switch-gear.

On an ongoing parts search, i pulled a set of motorcycle bars out of the garage. 29.5" pullbacks with a 4" rise - I could trim it down to at least 27", if i'm really sure of this - they are my Bandit 1200 stock handlebars, LOL.

I'm almost considering using them. Reminds me of the same sort of seating position of my early-1970's banana-seat bicycles that I had as a kid.. Would require real careful shimming of the stem clamp to work. I think i might do some bike-shop searching and find something more appropriate, but of similar ergos.

 

[irishpowerjunkie]

Hey hackd for the handle bar problem you could if you have a welder amd it is a steel bar mount open slightly out the width and weld and rub down with dremel until its just the right size or slightly smaler than size of the bars.

 

[HackD]

Handlebar issue is sorted - I'm not using the motorcycle handlebars. Just one of those late-night pipe-dream musings where "hmm.." met wrench, and I later thought the better of that, the next morning.

I have decided on a rather drastic turn of direction, however. I am cannibalizing my Raleigh fully-suspended to the cause(s). I've already, to that end, taken the complete clamp and handlebar assembly off of it and put it on the Miele. It'll require shorter handlebar grips to work out perfectly - but my hands fit perfectly fine in Ladies Small leather motorcycle gloves... so you get the idea about the actual need for full-sized grips, on a personalized project.

Those paying attention will have noted that cause(s) is plural.

Once i'm done moving the better quality bits over to the Miele project (cranks, pedals, miscellaneous fasteners and bits) I'll reconsider what fork I need - the cheapish Suntour forks already on it - albeit with a mechanical disc brake setup that's just begging me to up-size it to a 203mm kit, or just use the Raleigh's Late-90's Rockshox, that is definitely of higher quality and beefiness - at the cost of not being able to use the bling-looking disc brake setup. I don't know ... perhaps i have higher expectations of what discs can provide over traditional rim-clinchers - esp. since i've never actually ridden a mechanical disc brake bicycle.. maybe the rim clincher's on the Rockshox would be 'good enuff'. Maybe, i'll just flip a coin to break the indecision on that one..

Either/or .. both the Nishiki and the Miele will be sporting suspended forks by the end of this winter. Just a matter of deciding which, is the better to go on which.

The added bonus - once cannibalized, the Raleigh's rear suspension sub-frame will be the ideal donor, as the basis to plan around a possible future project, if interests continue to plod on about motored bicycle things .. a reverse tadpole trike.

As good as the Raleigh was, remaining intact - the reality is, i bought it for $40.00 - it had a buggered rear shock that i couldn't source the correct shock replacement - and the replacement introduced far too much play in the rear than should be there - didn't really make a difference with me - i rode too slow to make things like that really matter, on a safety angle.

Imperfectly healed double hip replacements, and other related emergent issues also mean that my days of non-assisted mountain bicycle peddling on the bike trails, are now over. Time to move on, and use what is otherwise is now useless to me, and of very low re-sale value, to make space in the garage. Too much good in it, to just toss in a tip or leave it curbside..

Early photos showed the stock peanut tank taped onto the top tube - that idea likely is going to be ditched, in favor of an under-rack mount tank on the rear. This will contribute towards the 'stealthy' aspects that i wish to build into this project in terms of cop visibility. Nothing screams "come hassle me!" more, than that cheesy peanut tank sitting on the top tube of the bicycle, IMHO.

I'm also now about 90% certain of again going direct drive on this build - following the KISS principle, and keeping overall weight and complexity down. I don't really need an 8 speed gear setup, when i don't really see much more than a cow-trailing 30km/h - on street, sidewalk or dirt.

One thing is for sure - certainly more refinements and aftermarket support parts available now, than when i did the Nishiki, 5 years ago. For such a simple project as it is, for the average builder being able to throw the base engine kit into a common compatible bicycle frame, set it up, and be ridden - all in a Saturday afternoon - with the now wide variety of parts, owner-mods, and variations of setup available to be incorporated into the build, does complicate that decision making process just a bit..

Not too much longer, for this project to be remaining relatively stagnant in terms of overall progress. I will be the first to admit that i have been pretty much lost in thought, coming to terms of all of the available parts and fabricator-mod variables, within the build's overall planning and parts-ordering process.

A couple of websites do have an ongoing open Cart filling up with parts that i am considering.. all just a matter of giving them a last "delete-check", before committing to further financial mayhem on the paypal linked CC with that last mouse-click.

 

[KCvale]

Nice bike.
That bike has the same geometry are a Surley.

A 2-stroke will fit, a slant head 66cc anyway, you just need to modify yourself an angled intake pipe so the carb is out of the way as a Z pipe won't work.

I just cut up 2 intakes to make 1.

I jackshafted it to preserve the disc brake and let the engine use the bikes gears.
The front mount, dual pull brake lever and shift kit are from SickBikeParts.com
That will set ya back ~$250 but man what a ride ;-}

 

[HackD]

Well.. I'd guess i've done enough damage to the VISA online, for one night..

From motorizedbicycle.ca:

Grubee Skyhawk 66cc full kit
fuel filter
dual brake lever
offset air intake 40mm

From bicycledesigner.com:

Motorized Rear 255mm Disc Brake Kit - 40tooth sprocket
Monster 255mm Disc Brake Kit - Front

That's a good start.. and stop.

 

[bluegoatwoods]

You're off to a good start there!

Don't worry about being too wordy. And don't worry about spending too much time thinking about your build.

Thinking about what you want to do, weighing options, etc., is part of the fun. And we want to know what you're thinking. Right here is the only place you can share that.

Good call on the Raleigh, by the way. Though it sounded like a nice bike, it's being put to better use as a parts donor.

 

[HackD]

Nice bike.
That bike has the same geometry are a Surley.

A 2-stroke will fit, a slant head 66cc anyway, you just need to modify yourself an angled intake pipe so the carb is out of the way as a Z pipe won't work.

I just cut up 2 intakes to make 1.

Certainly looks like a Surly in general design, if not in quality of some components. Miele claims that these as "Canadian Designed" (Manufactured in Mexico) and generally sold through independent smaller shops. I guess following the 'Surly' design in terms of layout and dimensions is a good thing?

As a few photos showed above - i've already mucked around with engine spacing. It looks like a relatively tight package overall in the small frame.

I did order an alternative offset intake manifold pipe, if just to have it in hand and to understand any clearance issues as i proceed with engine in frame install. Although i ordered the full Skyhawk kit, i might not be using the supplied carburetor .. i'm electing to keep all parts options open at this time.

I jackshafted it to preserve the disc brake and let the engine use the bikes gears.
The front mount, dual pull brake lever and shift kit are from SickBikeParts.com
That will set ya back ~$250 but man what a ride ;-}

I considered the jack-shaft approach in this second build - but in the end, i decided that a refined direct chain drive is fine for this one, also. Just too much complexity, for a MAB that is not going to likely see anything more than occasional recreational, off-road use at a relatively low-speed.

I do like your ride also - it is definitely a refined package, to take some inspiration from!

 

[KCvale]

I guess following the 'Surly' design in terms of layout and dimensions is a good thing?

With this frame correct?

It looks like the same cramped area and I have a bunch of pics of how everything goes together so it can't hurt.
Remember, Rule #1 is your back motor mount being flush (90 degrees) to the seat post.

I considered the jack-shaft approach...
I decided that a refined direct chain drive is fine for this one...
...off-road use at a relatively low-speed.

You have a back disc brake AND want to be able to put around at any speed you desire, even really slow up hills.

That is whole purpose of a shift kit!

Check the price of a top-hat and big sprocket to mount to your back wheels disc mount if you want to go direct drive and compare it to $200 for a shift kit.

 

[BOYGOFAST]

Yeah I like the bike if you could imagine have a bike with a new engine and not having enough muscle to peddle start the thing then you've got a Nexus 3 speed linked to the shift kit.Wow how do I start this thing ?

 

[Chainreaction]

I must be missing something, the 18" bike referred to doesn't like it has 18" wheels. What does the 18" refer to? I think a small frame/bike would be a fun bike.

 

[KCvale]

I must be missing something, the 18" bike referred to doesn't like it has 18" wheels. What does the 18" refer to? I think a small frame/bike would be a fun bike.

The 'bike size' is the distance from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube.

The higher the number, the higher your top bar is from the pedals, and the bike is usually conversely longer as well to keep the same angles.

 

[HackD]

I'm kinda lost personally, it looks like this build thread is degenerating into conversational confusion, somehow.

The 18" in this thread-title refers to the seat post tube height from crank to top. That is the frame size. This Miele has 26" wheel sets.

The Miele is a bike that was marketed to later teens up to 5'11" - a budget, but still quality brand sold through independents. It's supposedly 'Canadian designed' .. but marketing hype is international, and copying is ever-present. Why not take proven frame dimensions from an up-market rival, and produce your own around those numbers.. that's likely just what they did, given the photographic similarities in dimensions.

I chose that bicycle off of Kijiji, specifically for that smaller frame size to make for a more nimble ride - i just need to be sure that i get the engine mounting, and clearances sorted, before i can make any further changes and additional parts orders. I have to 'clean' the workshop for the Holiday's however - having this it in my living room, isn't really going to go over well with the Seasonal guests.. so there is now a time delay involved.

KCvale:

Yes, the blue bike up against the fish tank, is the one for the motor transplant.

I've read your comments re. Shift Kit - nothing is done permanently yet. I will see what results with that bicycle designs sprocket/disc combo when it arrives - If i change my mind on final-drive method, i can always re-purpose the kit for something else - or at least still use part of the kit for the increased diameter disc and caliper bracket, and possibly redirect the remained parts to the Nishiki. I'm keeping my options open.

The parts "Needs and Wants" list, is starting to get Stupid long and cumulatively expensive.

 

[Chainreaction]

The 'bike size' is the distance from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube.

I did not know that, thanks.

 

[KCvale]

I did not know that, thanks.

You're welcome.
http://bikesizechart.com/

 

[KCvale]

Yeah I like the bike if you could imagine have a bike with a new engine and not having enough muscle to peddle start the thing then you've got a Nexus 3 speed linked to the shift kit.
Wow how do I start this thing ?

Pedal up to speed for balance, then put your right pedal at about 1 O'clock, release the clutch, and jump down on the pedal like it was a kick-starter and then KEEP PEDALING THROUGH until it starts.

You get no bike momentum help, it's all your legs.